"Random" Rey.....

This. You said it better than I could have. She's a total Mary Sue (and I know some will be mad about that label). I actually like the character of Rey, but I'm sticking the label of Mary Sue on her anyway!

 

I’m sorry, but what in TFA suggested her parents were important (other than what was in some poeople head about her being a Skywalker)?

As for her power, Snoke explained it in one sentence. And if you don’t like that, then you can’t like Anakin’s origins either I guess? Hey, that’s Star Wars. It worked for me.

 

No idea what i said was wrong? care to elaborate?

Or are you just going to put word in my mouth? Friendly tone?

If they don't want to explain things, don't make it a direct sequel. If they choose to make it direct sequel, then explain. If there is no explanation, then it has failed as a sequel."

Not friendly enough? Do i need to beg him his permission to reply? Do i mod?
Or do I need to atone to my failure and hide somewhere not caring about people who i lived and fought with? ha. Funny m.

Look like even in here, darkness prevails.

 

Bingo. I love reading the rationalizations of people who dispute this. You can't. It's a 100% legitimate plot hole, and a hole in the mythological continuity itself. No matter what people say. It is a genuine issue. Some people don't care. Others do.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2017 ---

She didnt best Luke in the stick duel. Luke won. He disarmed her. She pulled out the light saber, and he tripped.

 

I didn't say TFA suggested her parents were important, I simply said that it set up the question of who her parents were for no other reason than to keep fans in suspense for 2 years. If they were going to be nobodies the entire time, there is no reason that couldn't have been revealed in TFA (other than a cheap cliff hanger).

How did Snoke explain her power? "Darkness rises and light to meet it"? How does that explain it at all? Anakin was the "chosen one" & the first example we got of him using the force was reading images off a paddle board in the Jedi Council room. But Rey can do all the things I mentioned with no training? This makes the "prophecy" utterly worthless and we might as well throw out the entire Anakin story if some random girl can pick up the force faster than a dude conceived by it. We don't see Anakin defeat Darth Maul in Episode 1, we see Rey defeat Kylo. Just saying

 

And doing something no other human could do as an 11 year old boy who was also a skilled mechanic and space pilot.

The prophecy was already suspect in ROTS - "misread may have been."

 

Still pales in comparison to what we have seen Rey do so far, and Anakin was supposedly conceived by the force.

I don't need Rey to be a Skywalker, Kenobi, or anything else. I am totally fine with her being a nobody. I just need an explanition as to why she's so friggin powerful with no training.

 

It set up the question for a very important reason: we had to discover the answer with Rey else we wouldn’t empathise with her. The audience has to go on the hero journey with the protagonist. So when Rey confonts the truth, we do it with her. And any implication that was there that she was someone more important meant that the shock of her being nobody for the audience would increase that sense of empathy.

Anakin was either created by the force or by the Sith (by the force striking back). In this sense, his birth was a reaction to the growing darkness or the unnatural use of the force itself. Rey’s power was a reaction in exactly the same way. I don’t see Rey as having powers that don’t make sense. She was already pretty good in combat, could fly ships and then the connection with Ren sped up her development. It also appears that Ren’s power is greater than what we saw with Anakin and Luke and so Rey’s power, being a reaction, had to match that.

 

If the Force can conceive a child, it can make a capable adult strong in the Force.

 

But can it make a capable adult strong in the force with no training? We've never seen that before, and training has always been a core part of using the force.

Obi Wan was trained by Qui Gon, who was trained by Dooku, who was trained by Yoda. Obi Wan trained Anakin from the time he was 9, and despite being the "chosen one" he still wasn't powerful enough after roughly 13 years of training to defeat Obi Wan. Luke was the descendant of the "chosen one" & trained by Obi Wan & Yoda, yet he's getting hit with blasters from the training droid & struggling to lift small stones when he's first learning the force. Ben Solo is also a descendant of Anakin & trained from the time he was a child by Luke/Snoke, yet he is still defeated by Rey in their first meeting.

Explain to me why Rey is so powerful in the force without training, when literally every other force sensitive character in Star Wars history required years of training to display the same amount of power.

 

I promise you if you go to some less developed places you will see plenty of 11 years olds that are very mechanically inclined. There situation and survival demands it.

He did not fly the space ship. He stayed right there like he was told to do, pressed buttons and activated the autopilot. R2 turned it off in the hanger of the Droid ship.

Who knows. Why we're the sith in hiding for 1000 years but no need for the force to bestow untaught abilities. To some one. Why were sith in charge of the empire and some Jedi kid didn't just appear with untaught abilities.

Even in the OT Luke did not defeat anyone. He turn Vadar back to the light and Vadar defeated the Emporer. Even Yoda said only a fully trained Jedi could defeat Vadar and his Emporer.

But she defeats Kylo for some reason. She beats all the guards for some reason and had to save kylo. Ship flies a space ship for some reason first time in one. She lifts piles of boulders when Luke struggled lifting one under direct supervision of a Jedi master who had trained countless Jedi over 900 years.

 

You're implying all those characters didn't display such abilities as children. We don't know that.

Once we've had to accept that the Force can impregnate a human being, then other things are absolutely on the table, especially if it's considered a response to meddling by Sith/Dark Side.

 

1. The chosen one wasn’t born until the balance started to slip.

2. Luke and Leia already existed.

1. She was shown to be pretty good in a fight even before she discovered the Force
2. The Force awoke from dormancy - implying an eruption so the new Force users are likely even more powerful. See broom boy.
3. She connects with Ren and learns a lot from that.
4. Ren is likely more powerful than we’ve seen. Rey’s power had to match that.
5. Harry Potter stood up to Voldemort...same thing with Rey/Ren.
6. The Force moves in mysterious ways.

 

So Rey is powerful because Kylo is, and someone had to match his power? What's the point in training to use the force if all it takes for one to become powerful is for someone on the opposite side of the spectrum becoming powerful first? I'm sorry, but that doesn't work for me. Why couldn't Luke just forgo training with Yoda and take on Vader right after Ben died? I mean....someone has to rise on the light side to equal Vader's power. Dagobah seems like a waste of time in this context. Training has always been important...why isn't it with Rey?

 

She didn’t become powerful - she was just born with a strong connection to the Force. How powerful she becomes depends on how much she learns and trains. Like I say, what we see her achieve in the first two films is justified. If she defeated Snoke then we’d have had a problem.

 

Because Luke consistently didn't understand his training.

He doesn't understand when Yoda tells him that whatever he brings into the cave is exactly what awaits him. Violence.

He takes his visions as gospel, just as his father did. "Han and Leia will die" He repeats this with Ben.

He can't let go of the physical differences of an X-Wing and rocks. "Unlearn what you have learned." "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." "No, no different, only different in your mind." "I don't believe it." "That is why you fail."

Luke rarely learns from his failure, as Yoda tells him. "Remember your failure at the cave." (and everything Yoda says in TLJ).

Rey doesn't shown that type of reluctance. She's always been on the edge of leaving the past behind and only needed a nudge (and the the burning alive of her caretakers...if she's even had any since being abandoned).

 

1. The force was not balanced. The light side was in power. From a certain point of view.

2. I don't think anyone is saying you have to be a Skywalker to use the force. At least that is not my issue.

3. There is a huge difference between fighting some savangers then fighting someone trained to use a laser sword.
4. Why didn't Luke absorb obi wan knowledge from osmosis.
5. Really now.
6. Different universe. Different rules. The abilities of trained force users is pretty well established.
7. No comment

 

1. That’s not how the balance works. The Jedi being in power didn’t mean there was no dark side. The imbalance was caused when the dark side took over and eclipsed the light. When the Jedi were in power, good and evil were balanced.

2. Not sure I understand your response. You asked by no one was created to fight the Sith empire. I was just saying they already existed - Luke and Leia.

3. Ren was injured, conflicted and had compassion for Rey. He was also caught by surprise.

4. Kenobi didn’t mind probe Luke or vice verser.

5. And 6. Yes, really. Harry Potter was largely untrained but his connection with Voldemort enabled him to match his power. This raw power that Rey and Ren have is different to what we have seen before and a likely result of the force being dormant.

7. Indeed.

 

I agree with you. Problem is, she hasn't learned or trained anything (as far as I can see). She spent like 3 days on Ahch To & got 2 out of 3 lessons from Luke. When we see Luke train with Yoda, he struggles at first. Rey never struggles to do anything. She lifts multiple huge boulders with ease, while Luke struggled to lift small stones. If you think about the 3 main Jedi in Star Wars (Anakin, Luke, & Rey), 2 of them had defeats. They both lost an arm. Assuming in Episode 9, Rey either defeats Kylo or turns him to the light, she will be the only Jedi to go undefeated....all with basically zero training.

All I'm asking for is an explanation as to why she's so special and needs no training. And no, her becoming powerful to counter Kylo doesn't cut it for me