Rank the Star Wars films

Empire
New Hope
Revenge of Sith
Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace

Jar Jar drops menace to the bottom. If you want another list of greatest saber battles I would rework the list.
Ewoks drop ROJ from 3 to 4
Whinning Hayden puts AOC 5
Pod Racing way too long...too much freaky CGI Phantom Menance

 

- The Empire Strikes Back

Its a hard choice between Empire and Star Wars, but Empire was simply perfect <3

- Star Wars

- Return of the Jedi

Not because of the Ewoks, because you can tell there wasn't as much internal consistency, e.g. the Imperial officer rank badges denote every single officer as a naval commander

(GIGANTIC DIVIDE)

- The Phantom Menace

No matter how dumb it was, something about this movie made it feel a little bit more like a Star Wars movie than the other two. Maybe they just didn't use quite as much CGI.

- Revenge of the Sith

Don't be fooled into thinking that this movie was good. It wasn't. It wasn't as stupid and bad as Attack of the Clones of course, but it was in fact stupid and bad. And dark. But who cares how dark it was?

- Attack of the Clones

 

I've been saying that for a long time about Attack of the Clones.

 

Interesting idea. As you say the trilogy started out as the adventures of Luke and friends but from ROTJ on it's really about Anakin/Vader.

So VII will be about Luke and friends for this one film then it will transfer to the new characters. So once that happens and depending on how the originals are used in this one film those same people might have huge problems. Already many people worried about how they will be used and if it's how they want it to be. It probably won't be though because want they want is not likely what they will get.

 

I actually talked about this in the Episode 8 thread, about how many OT fans may really like/love Episode 7 because Luke, Leia and Han will play prominent roles, and then Episode 8 & 9 will be another wildcard. From what they are saying, Episode 8 & 9 will be more about the next generation ST characters (even Mark Hamill is quoted as saying this), so what if the new ST characters don't click with the fans the same way the PT characters didn't click with them?

You could eventually have a saga:

1,2,3,6: Focuses on Anakin/Vader

4,5,7: Focuses on Luke, Leia and Han

8,9: Focuses on the new generation of Characters

You could easily have 3 different SW fanbases when it is all said and done. I can tell you that the TV show 'Two and Half Men' was never the same after Charlie Sheen left, and I never watch the episodes with Aston Kutcher. Or Three's Company was never the same once Suzanne Somers left.

People get so focused on things like CGI, Old School Effects, Locations, etc, and forget that the characters are the key to any movie. If you don't care about the characters, how can love the movie?

 

Have you guys seen Return of the Jedi recently? It was like all about Luke, Leia, and Han's adventures! (one of the reasons it was so super awesome)

I mean there was also stuff about Vader, but he was developed as a character thru-out the whole trilogy. Remember when Star Wars characters were not there just because they are physically required to tell a stupid plot? But instead they were there to be explored and developed, and to act as symbolic thematic elements, and to introduce relatable characters we can care about, and want to succeed.

 

It was half and half or whatever ratio you want to ascribe. The point is that ROTJ is several different movies in one. The first section is finishing trio story of rescuing Han. Then really they as a group become the B plot as focus shifts to the real core story of Luke, Vader and the Emperor. That is the most important thing even in that first iteration of the film. Not that the other stories are irrelevant but they are adjuncts. Remember that in the original version of the script that whole confrontation was on Had Abbadon (Coruscant) so it was clearly separate from the other action. It was simply the reality of budget and realization that made it not possible to do that. Then in the wider context of the entire saga we know now the whole story that it's impact is tenfold stronger. Know we know who Anakin was and how Sidious manipulated things to get to this point.

No. I've never come across Star Wars movies like that?

Yes all six movies did that. The prequels actually did that to a far greater degree because they were initially designed that way from the start while the original trilogy wasn't. Remember the first film was inspired not by myths and legends so much but the matinee serials, movies and TV shows, comics and SF and fantasy stories. The first film can trace it's roots to things like Flash Gordon, Kurosawa, John Ford, Jack Kirby, Dune, the Lensman etc.

George didn't meet Campbell and really get into the whole heroes journey in a scholarly way until after ROTJ and so the prequels follow the mythic form. Of course by that time Star Wars itself was myth like those. This style permeates the prequels in story which for Lucas means character and visuals.

Explored in this special: Star Wars The Legacy Revealed

Of course the pop culture roots of what the movies were about has been supplanted by "classic" roots which are still pop culture of their own time.

See this is where the problem lies. The PT and OT characters are from different times and circumstances. This is totally intentional.

There is no question that the OT characters are more relatable and easier to care about. Movies where the good guys are clearly good and the bad guys are clearly bad doing good and bad things and one side are the faces and the other side are the heels in wrestling terms is easy.

The PT has good and bad but it's not so easy. The character cues and personality types that denotes good and bad are appropriately grey. In the PT we have Jedi and Queens, Senators, Chancellor, Counts etc who live in a different strata. They are the top class. They live in an age like Victorian England. They don't show their emotions easily. They are bound by duty and form and class. It's a more civilized age.

In this world no one can fully be trusted. Yes the Jedi are good but flawed. They want to maintain a status quo that is corrupt in the first place. Palpatine is the bad guy but much of what he wants actually is "good" from a certain point of view. He can bring peace but to do that he starts a war and his "peace" will destroy and enslave the many to benefit the few which really is not so different from what the Republic is doing already in many ways though not with the killer edge but one of neglect and inaction.

I can totally relate to Anakin. He's and Padme are the most relateable people because they are the young people who rebel against the form of their elders. They have their secret love and Anakin questions those around him. He's part right and part wrong. He's right in many ways but goes about it the wrong way plus of course he, like everyone else in the films, is totally played by Palpatine.

Some people say they wish Anakin was like Luke. Well he is like Luke in some ways but I think that a repeat of Luke would have been totally wrong. This difference was the point. Luke had a great destiny but didn't know it until he was about 20. Anakin found out at 9 he was this Chosen One and knew how ultra powerful he would become. Luke is like Peter Parker becoming Spider-Man while Anakin is if his school bully Flash Thompson became Spider-Man. IIRC Flash later became Venom.

 

We knew that before. The prequels can be entirely summed up by Ben Kenobi's line, "A young Jedi named Darth Vader - who was a pupil of mine, until he turned to evil - helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force."

And those twenty seconds make for a much better trilogy of movies than the Prequels. If anything the impact is weaker, because we saw Anakin Skywalker was just a mean, whiny, creepy, psychopath. Not the greatest star fighter pilot in the Galactic Empire. And not Ben's good friend.

For that matter, in the Prequel Trilogy not only did he barely "hunt down" the Jedi knights (the clones did 90% of the work), he wasn't "seduced" by the dark side of the force. He was freaking tricked into it! Duped into doing evil, like a big idiot!

That's the real problem with these movies and the characters in them - they are all just big idiots. The audience sits there watching these characters perform a series of a actions in a row. These aren't actions the audience would take, and they have no motivation behind them. The characters only say and do the things they do to make the plot happen. You can't believe the story if you don't know why the characters do what they do - its called verisimilitude.

That's not right. I'm pretty sure they were always inspired by mythology. And one of the first drafts of Star Wars was just like Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. The Original Trilogy was only stylistically influenced by the older scifi pulp serials.

I understand that it was intentional. Lucas just didn't do a good job.

In my opinion, that isn't like Star Wars. But for the movies as they are, it just doesn't work. The characters being "grey" doesn't make you think and junk, it just makes you confused. This is one of the worst things about Attack of the Clones (okay, everything in that movie was the worst things about Attack of the Clones). You don't meet the villain until two-thirds into the movie! And even when you meet him its impossible to tell whether or not he is a good guy. I still don't know!

But they should! You know, cause this is like a movie, and movies usually (but not always) have characters. And you can't know characters without seeing their personalities. And you can't see their personality without them expressing their emotions. Only three or four characters in the entire prequel trilogy express emotions at any time. And these times were extremely rare.

This part is very funny to me

It's hard to care that these people are being "played by Palpatine" when anybody (besides the great Jedi masters in this movie, I guess) could clearly see from the very beginning that he was behind it all.

 

It's like watching a Horror movie, and the characters actions are never believable because the audience is screaming for them to the do the opposite. So many horror movies, a person hears a sound in their house and should just get the hell out of there! But they snoop around, and the killer gets them in the end.

Thats the logic of the PT sometimes, as you scratch your heads at the motives of the characters.

 

If you believe that then you truly are lost!

Know who said that?

Have you ever actually seen the films? Because we obviously do. Anakin is a teenager. Teenage boys can be mean, whiny and creepy. Obviously he's not a psychopath which is amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships. His problem is the opposite. He hangs onto them.

The impact is incredible as we know all the context behind it all.

Again watch the movies. You know the bit in ROTS when he erm... hunts down and destroys the Jedi Knights.

I find it odd that you base so much on Ben there as he is obviously telling Luke what he needs to know then not everything.

Not at all. Palpatine is the utter bad guy genius of all time. The greatest villain ever.

See here I think is the basic problem. The prequels tell a story that no one ever really does. It's about how the bad guy wins. Virtually every other movie or series of movies ever is about how the good guys win. Their win is inevitable. The only time the bad guy ever wins in those movies is if they are in charge already and/or it's seen in flashback. This time the villain's win in the inevitability. No matter what the heroes do we know they are doomed which goes against all story telling principles from the beginning of time where good triumphs over evil.

In the normal course of events Anakin would overcome his fears for Padme, rise to the occasion and at some point even after even maybe first turning to the Dark Side go back to the light. So for example let's say ROTS plays out exactly the same but Anakin does leap over Obi-Wan cuts him down but holds off killing him right away. Then he brings Obi-Wan back to the ship as the Emperor arrives. Then he truly sees what he's done to Padme and Obi-Wan. Maybe Padme even dies and then her loss taps into the good left in him then he battles the Emperor sacrifices himself by taking them both into the lava. That is your traditional cathartic ending.

We'll just have to totally disagree on this point. The verisimilitude of this story is just beautiful. Everything fits into place from characters to motivations to believability.

No. It was Lucas wanting to make Flash Gordon. He tried to get the rights. When he couldn't he then decided to make his own. Yes the first draft was Hidden Fortress in the very basics. That isn't mythology. In fact in Japan the film was looked down upon by critics as being frivolous compared to his other works. Too popcorn.

Star Wars was and is a young person's fantasy film. That is the way it was designed from the start. All the mythological aspects were brought out more and more after the success of the film got crazy and critic's were looking for some deeper reasons for the success so Lucas started giving them out. Lucas didn't even meet Campbell until after ROTJ. Then they helped each other as Lucas used Campbell to promote the myth aspects of the story while Campbell used Lucas as a platform for his books and lectures.

I agree. It wasn't good. It was a great job.

It is now.

It's "forcing" you to think your way through it. It's not just that easy. Again totally intentional.

Well actually the real villain, Darth Sidious, appears at the end of the movie. Of course this depends if you've figured out by that point that Palpatine is Sidious. I say that seriously because I know of people, mainly kids, that don't realize that Palpatine and Sidious are one and the same. They don't read casts lists or search this stuff out on the internet. They just react to the movies. There are many people to who the Sidious reveal in ROTS is akin to the ESB reveal.

I think that when you find out he's a Sith Lord his evilness if quite assured.

No, they express emotion all the time. Just not in the way that you are used to. Many people especially now are so used to heart on the sleeve emotional displays that a restrained version is hard for them to understand. That restraint that Jedi, politicians and leaders show is part of their personality.

Here's the thing though. You talk about how you want characters to display emotions. Well Anakin is emotion in the extreme most of the time. You see his personality and emotion. He along with Padme as the youngest people, the lovers in this whole tragedy are the most emotional. The point is that they are Jedi and Senator and have to act in a certain formalized way due to their society but their feelings for each other get in the way and in the circumstances they do the wrong thing and give into them. In this case love is wrong.

To say that only a few characters in the PT express emotion is just plain untrue.

Only we as audience members with our all knowing eyes can see every single event going on. How exactly should anyone have know it was him?

He really is Palpatine from Naboo of a noble house and has been a Senator for many years. Who could possibly think he's a Sith Lord?

 

That is a very strange attitude to have. I don't see how it applies to the prequels at all other than again saying to yourself "Well I know that Palpatine is the bad guy so why don't they?"

Once again the basics of the 2 trilogies is in one good vs bad is evident. In the other you can't say it just outright.

The Jedi are good of course but they are helping out an institution that is corrupt and will fail eventually. They themselves have become part of the failure living in a temple with statues to themselves and bound by all sorts of nonsensical codes and laws they have wrapped themselves in. They don't accept Anakin at first and then not easily because they wanted a Chosen One they could control from birth not some slave kid.

Yoda has much to learn. He isn't the all-wise and knowing guy we meet in ESB and even then he really doesn't know what he is doing. He's just trusting the Force more than Luke. He doesn't know how in all sanity Luke could defeat the Emperor.

 

Qui Riv Brid are you unable to take any criticism of the things you like?

 

1. Revenge of the Sith
2. A New Hope
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Attack of the Clones
6. The Phantom Menace

 

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Phantom Menace
4. Return of The Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
I don't mind any of them, but I really didn't like Hayden's Acting in AOTC, I like Jar-Jar, And the Duel of Fates was cool(even though I thought it was a little fast). The best Actor in the Prequels Was Obi-Wan! But Luke vs Vader in ESB was perfect!

 

Similar to Romeo and Juliet. Except that just Juliet dies and Romeo becomes evil.

 

1.) The Empire Strikes Back - It's by far the most balanced and satisfying of all six films. It has the epic quality and engaging characters of the original film, but everything is heightened and enhanced by the heavier themes and the fact that our heroes spend the entire movie getting their asses handed to them, and barely escaping at the end. The fact that elements of Yoda's training dialogue are taken almost verbatim from Carlos Castaneda is one of my favorite little touches.

2.) Star Wars (okay, okay... "A New Hope".) - The original is still nigh on unbeatable in my book. While I like the heavier tone of Empire, the original film was the perfect way to introduce us all to this world that we've all come to love so much. That it's a more or less self-contained story allows for that triumphant ending that was never really matched after that (even by Jedi where they finally beat the Empire once and for all.) Plus, it has by far the best space battle of the whole saga as far as I'm concerned. The assault on the Death Star is the sole focus of the climax of the film, and it's really the only time we get a pure hit of that kind of starfighter action in the entire saga.

3.) Return of the Jedi - This was where Star Wars started becoming a mixed bag for me. It is still right up there with the first two films IMHO, but there is a rushed feeling to it overall that's not there in the first two films. No surprise there, as Lucas truncated his original 12-film story arc and wrapped everything up in this one "final" movie. My biggest gripes about Jedi are the fact that Lucas replaced the planet of Wookiees with a planet of teddy bears, and the fact that Han Solo's character is given next to nothing to do in the film. However, the rescue from Jabba's palace is a helluva fun sequence of scenes, and the final confrontation between Luke, Vader and the Emperor is one of my favorite scenes out of all six films.

4.) Revenge of the Sith - Another mixed bag, though for me it doesn't rise to the level of Jedi. There are some scenes in this one that I really like, particularly the opera scene and Palpatine's attempts to con Anakin. But the real problem here is that I just have never found Anakin's turn to the dark side to be particularly believable. It seems to happen more because it's time for it to happen than anything, and though Anakin was set up in the previous film as a creepy stalker who lost it on a bunch of sandpeople, his sudden transformation from worried and confused husband to mass-murdering megalomaniac still just comes virtually out of nowhere. That said, for me it is still the most enjoyable and nearly satisfying of the prequel films, even though I still can't rate it at the level of any of the original trilogy.

5.) Attack of the Clones - Now we get to the bottom of the barrel, IMHO. For me, it's a toss-up between AOTC and TPM. In the end, I've got to rank them based on cringe factor. Yes, there are elements of both that I like, but neither have ever struck me as being particularly good movies. AOTC is marred by far too much "I dunno, I'm makin' this up as I go" sloppiness on Lucas' part, and the love story between Anakin and Padme has all of the charm of a pair of drunken rhinoceroses having it off. That said, the opening images of the camera panning up and the big silver cruiser slowly and majestically rotating down toward a fog-enshrouded Coruscant always makes me forget how bad what follows is going to be. And I do like the absolute lack of guile displayed by the Kaminoans, who are "damned good cloners" largely because they revere the science of it, devoid of any moral judgment of how their creations will be used. Overall, though, AOTC is a slightly less embarrassing mess than TPM.

6.) The Phantom Menace - Gad-flippin'-ZOOKS! I never expected a Star Wars movie that could practically put me to sleep. And yet, here it is. The least threatening military threat I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie, a completely unbelievable child prodigy who seems to have originally been intended to be about 15 or 16 years old until the inexplicable decision was made to make him a ridiculously precocious nine year-old, a political story that SHOULD be more interesting to a political geek like me than it ever managed to be, an anticlimactic final battle (with an asterisk) and... a pratfalling, baby-talking cartoon space duck as the film's alleged comic relief. Oy. OY, I say!

The aforementioned asterisk on this one, of course, is the three-way duel between Obi Wan, Qui Gon and Darth Maul. Though the laser barriers are a ridiculously contrived way of separating Obi Wan and Qui Gon so that Qui Gon can get offed, I really dig this lightsaber duel quite a lot (albeit outside of the context of the movie as a whole, which is still a double shot of cinematic NyQuil with the benefit of a John Williams score.) Overall, though, I just can't watch this one all the way through without rolling my eyes so hard that they end up sprained. I WISH I could like this movie and AOTC, and have tried to do so far more times than either of them deserve. But... erm... yeah.

 

The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace

 

It's funny how Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace battle it out for the #5 & #6 on almost everyone's list. Which goes to our argument in one thread about 'should the PT be one movie', and how ROTS was 60% of the PT outline as Lucas stated.

 

V
III
IV
VI
I
II

 

1.) Return of the Jedi
-Gut wrenching Lightsaber Duel
-The most epic space battle
2.) Empire Strikes Back
-Yoda
-"I am your Father"
3.) A New Hope
-Only really barely above TPM and ROTS for me. These three are all really close. ANH wins out because it doesn't have any explicitly bad parts. The space battle, while cool, has nothing on ROTJ. I also can't get over how they never fix the Special Effect on Obi-Wan's lightsaber even though there are like six or something special editions of this movie.
4.) The Phantom Menace
-Second best Lightsaber Duel in all six movies
-I really do like Qui-Gon and Darth Maul, I wish they would have both lasted longer
5.) Revenge of the Sith
-I like how the lightsabers got distinct pointy ends in this movie, a nice, subtle effect.
-Super epic opening space battle, which spins downward rapidly for me as the buzz droids are introduced
-General Grevious is a great bad guy in theory, but they choreographed that fight poorly. If he is going to have four arms, make them all do something, don't just have two of them spin, thats just lazy.
-I liked all of the recycled lines from the OT, and how the technology began showing up, like clones holding stormtrooper blasters.
6.) Attack of the Clones
-I like Kamino, and Obi-Wan hanging out with Dex. Thats about it.