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RATE: The Force Awakens

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Lord of the Rens, Dec 15, 2015.

?

Does The Force Awakens fit the Saga?

  1. Absolutely. THIS is Star Wars! I'm so giddy, I could fly the Falcon!

    69.1%
  2. More or Less. Its better than the PT but not quite as good as the OT.

    19.1%
  3. No. This flick makes Pluto Nash & AOTC seem great.

    8.5%
  4. I'm not sure. Must watch it again before I rate it.

    3.2%
  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'm pleased for you. I wish I shared your enthusiasm!
     
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  2. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    A big reason it has good replay value for fans like us is because the movie is really fun to watch.

    Somewhere along the way Lucas forgot that SW movies are supposed to be fun, as once they take themselves too seriously then it's not the same.

    JJ understood what made SW special in 1977 as you are bringing fans along for the ride and the characters have to resonate with us.

    Bill Moyer's said this in the 'Empire of Dreams' Documentary, "Star Wars is alot of fun to watch....". That's why fans like us are back again and probably the most hyped we've been since 1983. It's fun to be a SW fan again!
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    well said!
    i don't care about "plot holes" and Force silliness (though i don't feel TFA has either)~
    just entertain me and give me characters to love and i am totally there!
    with the exception of Snoke, i just about love every character in TFA without exception.
    i haven't been able to say that about Star Wars since ROTJ.
     
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  4. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    What do you not like about Snoke?
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    on a technical level i didn't care for the cgi or even the motion capture performance. and i think the design overall is weak.
    on a narrative level, he's a fishy-eyed toilet monster child molester who provokes nothing but revulsion in me.
    and even so, i'm not convinced yet that he's the worthy adversary that this trilogy needs.
     
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  6. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    As much as I loved TFA, Snoke is the one character that has me worried for Episode 8 & 9. Meaning the character could end up underwhelming.

    I don't understand why they made him CGI cause he's such an important character. I understand Maz as a CGI character, as she's just a secondary character.

    The realness of any character still triumphs any CGI character, IMO. I even think the best scenes with Kylo Ren is when he has his mask off. Realness and emotion are just more authentic then CGI, and a CGI Snoke may become a caricature more then a character.
     
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  7. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    It will be interesting to see Snoke "for real"--when he's not a hologram. I wonder if his appearance in TFA is meant to be a mask, as much as Kylo Ren's, Rey's, Finn's...and even the Vader mask in Kylo Ren's shrine?
     
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  8. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    ☆☆☆☆

    LST2.png
     
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  9. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Gahhh, must resist temptation to turn this into a Nolan Batman discussion...Why must you do this to me?! :p

    Anyway, I never hated Kylo Ren, but it did take me some time to appreciate him for what he is. I almost view him as what Hayden's Anakin could have been. They're similar in so many ways, even down to the hairstyle.

    As for actually rating the film, I'd give it a 4 out of 5. It's very good, in my estimation. In many ways, it's great. But for better or worse, I had a different vision of what the movie would be before watching it, and the end result didn't meet that expectation. It was its own thing, and a strong thing it was, but expectations and anticipations can become our worst enemy sometimes. :)
     
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  10. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Snoke is the character I'm most worried about too. Because Snoke fulfils the same role in the story as the Emperor, Snoke will always be compared against him. Going forward, I feel we need to find out what separates Snoke from the Emperor and what makes him unique. Snoke needs more backstory than the Emperor got in the OT because, back then, there was no character similar to the Emperor.

    His injuries must be very important to his story for Disney to make him CGI. I think the writers wanted to stress to the audience that Snoke's severely damaged. A human wearing prosthetics wouldn't have achieved the same results because of Snoke's asymmetric facial structure.
     
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  11. FN-3263827

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    i continue to hope he's a macguffin of some kind. either that he's "manufactured" in some fashion or not so all-powerful and someone like Hux dispatches him to either seize his literal power or emerge as the more powerful one.

    i could fight you on the hairstyle ~ Anakin's haystack was hardly a "style" whereas Ren's got the gloriously coiffed raven locks ~ hahaha
    but your point is sound and i recall saying something similar to my brother not three minutes out of the theatre on the first showing: if Anakin had inspired even half the empathy i felt for Ren Ben in TFA, those movies wouldn't have suffered so much in my opinion.

    i agree. totally. most of the comparisons with the OT didn't bother me. droid on a quest? who cares, it's different enough a quest and trajectory. Han as a mentor to the new hero a la Obi-Wan? again, very different circumstances and outcomes. Snoke sitting on his toilet throne and pretending to be mysterious? not mysterious at all and largely indistinguishable from previous throne-sitting holographic old crusty dude. right now all i feel like all he has going for him is his child molestor vibe and i'd hardly call that a plus. : o p
     
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  12. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel Official

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    I agree. Snoke obviously has a history. The novel states he's been around to see the rise and fall of the Empire. Has he been around even longer than that, perhaps hundreds or thousands of years? Are we perhaps going to get a villain version of Yoda?

    He obviously has kept an eye on Ben since he was very young. Leia is aware of Snoke's meddling, the question there is whether she knows this simply from Ben telling her, or has she actually been face to face with him?

    Is Snoke powerful with the force? We can assume, but that is not made clear. At no point does Kylo or Leia comment, like Vader did of the Emperor in ROTJ, of the powers of Snoke. Simply that he turned Ben to the darkside and that he is "wise".

    There are numerous rumours floating around and some of them sound great, while others are just dumb. But I have a feeling that Rian Johnson is going to give us something satisfying in regards to Snoke. JJ and Kasdan did a great job creating and introducing us to new heros and villans, but I believe it is Rian that will turn this new trilogy into something memorable and fresh.
     
    #32 Darth Chewie, Sep 11, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
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  13. Light Savior

    Light Savior Force Attuned

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    TFA is a GREAT and WONDERFUL SW movie.It has EVERYTHING to take us FAR FAR AWAY.I remember seeing ANH.Was CRAZY to see the next one.Is happening to me know again.I can't wait to see how will this end.I rate Ep.VII with a 10.Can't find anything wrong with the movie.My favorite character is Rey...:).
     
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  14. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    The hangar/landing bay on the Command Ship and Starkiller base both remind me of the first mission for The Force Unleashed.
     
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  15. playswellwithsharks

    playswellwithsharks Clone Trooper

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    yeh, it recaptured the essence of Star Wars, it was the first movie for a long time that I could sit back and be lost in, the visual stunning imagery and fast pace mean before you even stop for breath its almost over. the perfect bridge between the O.T and the Sequels, interesting characters and creative takes on them, from poe and fin to Rey and kylo.
    It was also just light enough tonally, so as the wars escalate the arc will become more apparent.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2016 ---
    @Alex Sebire
    yeh, kylo says to Snoke, "she's strong in the force, stronger than she knows"
    I think he was trying to asses her, thats why when he first meets her and fin in the forest he knocks her out, to deal with fin.
    Later as they fight I think he's still trying to asses her power an try to convert her.
    The injury was him taken aback as she really draws on the force for the fist time in battle.
    They were then interrupted before he had chance to show his reaction, in real anger.
    but lets not forget when he wanted to deal with her and. not jut asses her he force froze her earlier and knocked her out when he wanted to deal with the "TRAITOR"
     
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  16. andrea.conti.91

    andrea.conti.91 Rebelscum

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    TFA is perhaps too similar to ANH, but this allowed it to have a great continuity with the past, and a great esthetical coherence. Actually, the best things about it are quite invisible, just because they fit very well the SW universe. I mean: everyone complained about the plot similarities, but have this guys find out that BB-8 is something never-saw in SW, or in a movie in general, in terms of esthetics?
     
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  17. Bligh

    Bligh Rebel Official

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    TFA is similar in part to ANH and the rest of the OT - but in every good way possible. As George Lucas once said; Star Wars is like poetry. So you're bound to have similarities turn up every now and then. TFA used this in the most demure and excellent way.

    TFA is so easy to watch and enjoy - even to the casual film-goer. I love that. I've done a full review on here before so I don't need to delve any deeper. For me Episode 7 is a solid 8.5/10 - even nearly a year toward it's release. I adore it.

    More importantly, TFA is a solid foundation for the future of Star Wars as a franchise and story.
     
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  18. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    Ok, it's about time I do this. Been waiting for the newness to wear off and the luster to set in. 11 months.. enough time. Also, I want to write this in a way that doesn't sound like I'm writing a defense of this movie; that has been a difficult temptation to resist.

    My initial rating of this film was 9/10 and I was putting it vs. Empire on the List. I think of it now in more of a vs. Hope situation. A lot of that is due to the release of the deleted scenes. In fairness, there's scenes from ANH & ESB I want back in those movies as well.
    If I had to carve out a niche for TFA, I would call it the "Fun" Star Wars movie. It goes through 2.5 hours like it's 90 minutes. And that's a double edged sword: it's a fun ride but we never stay anywhere long enough to really soak it in. Sith has a similar problem but I still put it over Jedi.
    The story is great, and has it's own original approach to the hero(ine)s journey. And I'm being serious here, and I'm not talking about ta-tas either. Rey has to get from a point where she's making Jason Newstead ugly faces at teedos to a point where she is humbly extending a lightsaber to Luke Skywalker asking for help. Rey's journey is not designed to build her up, as it was with Luke. Her journey is designed to break her down.
    "You must unlearn what you have learned."(yoda 2)

    What Rey has learned coming into this story is a great deal of useful skills.. but she has also learned perfectionism, reclusiveness, distrust, and obvious psychological issues.(Counting the days..)
    In fact, that's what a lot of this movie is about.. people with issues helping people with issues, set to a tour de Force backdrop of the OTs greatest hits.
    So this journey starts the moment she grabs that staff and is confronted with her first challenge: make a friend. That doesn't seem like much of a challenge to us.. but to Rey it's stepping out of her comfort zone. Then Finn comes along and she has to learn to trust someone else. Things keep moving until finally she's drinking from the fire hose and learns to accept and appreciate the help of others. She nakes a huge turn in her arc when she hugs Finn. Detractors claimed she didn't need Luke's help; they're half right. By the end of this movie, crying over Finn's dying form, she is now psychologically ready for the training.
    At the same time, we have another hero's journey with Kylo Ren. Ren is an interesting villian; at 30 lbs wet he lacks the traditional 'constant' BBG gravitas of Vader, yet has this distinctly different way of doing things despite his determination to fill his grandfather's boots. I still love that moment Rey gets her bravado up over his buckethead and he just takes the helmet off and she is just dumbstruck that Kylo would actually accomidate her demands.
    And of course these two journeys collide, and the result is.. the start of a bad romance?:confused: But, yeah, they have this strange intimacy if you will as they vie for dominance over the other.
    Interspersed into this is the character arc of Finn. Finn.. I think is the dealmaker/dealbreaker of this film. More so than Rey. You really have to get behind this guys story. And the film does not make this easy. You have to embrace that a guy who's been trained all his life is going to snap on his first mission.. that's pretty hard to do for people who are used to playing CoD for hours on end.. but it does happen. I think his character based on the various fan presentations of stormtroopers over the years who then pulls an Edward Snowden on his bosses. Boyega overall does a good job conveying Finn's desire to just get away from this madness. I've heard so many attempts to compare him with this character, that character.. I think he's his own man. He's got that awesome fight with Nines, which is just a finger to the face of every accusation that this film is unoriginal. And then he actually holds his own with a lightsaber for about 20 seconds with Kylo Ren.. that's pure gusto.
    Finn vs Nines just needs to be a paragraph of it's own. You got forceless Finn, weilding a lightsaber in a Star Wars movie. Don't give me "Han and the tauntaun", Finn is fighting and killing people with the grafflex. So Nines spots him on the battlefield, and instead of running away, just tosses his blaster and that dinky little shield in this total badass fashion, and whips this tonfa-looking beatstick out as if to say "@#$% you Finn and #$@% your lightsaber!".. And then he kicks Finn's @$$. And then Han Solo just blows Nines 20 feet into the air with Chewies bowcaster. This is just awesome! This is the stuff that you want to see in a Star Wars movie; not two guys twirling about spamming the Staples button.
    BB-8. Probably the biggest success of this movie. An orange soccer ball that moves like Marble Madness proves itself a worthy successor to R2-D2. The lighter still leads to lighthearted debate over whether he is giving Finn a thumbs up or a middle finger.
    Poe Dameron. Might be one of the strangest main characters in Star Wars movie history. On one hand, you have Erol Flynn.. Oscar Isaacs just hits a grand slam with this guy. For a fighter jock he is distinctly different from the "Viper Pilot" template you would expect. Basically, he's not an @$$hole. He's the kind of guy you want to hang out at the bar with.. maybe a 'macho' bar--joking! Okay, so he wouldn't last 30 minutes with the attitudes in Galactica's ready room, but he does carve out a distinct niche of fighter pilot for the franchise that you don't have to read a book to experience. And then he dissapears for half of the movie.. ..this is a good place to segway into the flipside of this movie. I am aware that this character was supposed to die in that crash, but Wedge's actor told JJ to drop dead, so Poe was reinserted to replace Wedge. But that no attempt was made to bridge this gap aside from exposition is baffling.. until one realizes: Poe Dameron and Rey share only one scene in this film. One scene. They're both in the same room when the map is put together. It's either Finn and Rey or Finn and Poe. Abrams was not only afraid that Mark Hamill would overshadow Ridley, he was also afraid Oscar Isaacs would do likewise. And this is where the movie starts going into Ghostbuster territory.. in a sense that they're trying to force something that should come naturally.
    Now this film has issues. Phasma.. (phasma).. you know, Gwen, I understand your dogma.. but if you don't want to show your face you have got to emote with your hands. David Prowse did it, why couldn't you. Speaking of wasted talent, there was a lot of that in this movie. We had an martial arts troupe, a parkour master, a swordmaster.. and we got nothing out of it. WTF.
    Also, this film feels skeletal. Scenes were cut in so many places that 'apparent bloopers' show up.
    Rey's outfit. A product of Sarkesian feminism, anything cool and awesome about this 'scythian' ensemble is stripped from it after one minute of screentime to avoid Rey being thought of as "Mrs. Male". There's even that one point after touchdown on Takodonna that she looks adrogynous next to Han
    Stormtrooper helmet redesign.. It's not growing on me. It just lacks that intimidation factor of the OT bucketheads. I do like the LBE vests and the designs of the other bucketheads.
    And finally, the big shocker.. Rey herself.:eek: There is a lot you who probably can't believe I'm going here.. I had the chance to watch Star Trek Beyond this summer and Sofia Boutella's portrayal of Jaylah. Jaylah is Star Trek's version of Rey, and.. well.. I think it's pretty clear JJ's constant pushing of Ridley had a detrimental effect on the overall presentation. Both are empowered female characters, both are staff fighters, both have a really awesome fight scene where they're not using their staffs. But for some damn reason Jaylah comes across more natural to me than Rey does. And I can't put my finger on why.
    In researching Jaylah, tho, I did discover Rey's true lineage. No, I don't know who her daddy is, but I know where she comes from. Those guys who say Rey is Katniss.. they're half right. She IS based off a Jennifer Lawrence character. Pegg said he based "Jaylah" off of JLaw's character in the indie film "Winters Bone." Three guesses what her character name was.
    Ree. It's Kybo Ren all over again.
    Ree is destitute, lives among shanties and junked cars, proficient with weapons, displays a deep concept of pride and honor, knowledgeable in the criminal underworld despite not being an active participant, tour between her family and getting out, and spends the movie looking for her father.
    But that is not a negative.. it's a positive. It means that Rey is an original character to Star Wars, ported from an art house movie rather than a Hollywood cash vehicle. And unlike Ree, who has no character development in winters bone, Rey is developed in this movie, giving Rey her own distinct take on Ree.
    So, all in all, TFA is a very strong movie. It has Some awesome stuff, like a Scottish gangster "Tell that to Kanjiclub", some odd stuff like a near complete lack of wipes, and it has some negative stuff like lousy character cgi with the rathtars. But those positives vastly outweigh the negatives.. really, it's not even a contest.
    I'm still giving The Force Awakens a 9/10 and giving it the edge over A New Hope. It may not have started Star Wars.. but this film had to convince a lot of people that 1999 was not a life sentence for the franchise. It was successful.
     
    #38 Talon Karrde, Nov 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  19. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I know that the detractors argue about TFA calling it a reboot, but isn't T2 (one of the greatest sequels ever) consided one too? T2 starts off with 2 Terminators being sent back in time to kill/save John Connor compared to T1 where 2 Terminators are sent back in time to kill/save Sarah Connor. Then you have a big action scene in the first hour where the Terminator pursues the Protagonist, and is unsuccessful. The movie then slows down to give some backstory of the War in the fuure, which sets up for the big finale of Terminator vs Terminator.

    I guess my point is that I never heard once in 1991 that T2 stole everything from T1 as it was universally loved and still is. I still think T1 is the better movie but still love T2, but many of my friends like T2 more. I would just love to ask the TFA detractors whose main beef with the movie is they feel it's a reboot, do they like T2, and do they have a problem that it steals many things from T1?
     
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  20. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    <----I'm a huge Terminator fan, obviously.

    If we're just talking about "reboots and similarities" then the only way for me to them compare is this:

    T1 = Star Wars
    T2 = TESB & RotJ
    T3 & Salvation = Prequels
    Terminator Genisys = The Force Awakens

    Its hard matching 5 with seven, just sayin.
     
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