SPOILER Rebels Review S01 E03: "Rise Of The Old Masters"

My thoughts exactly. I made the same connection as soon as we were given the leak of a grave robber "collecting artifacts." To date, Ezra is the only known Star Wars character that shows an interest in this. One could speculate that at some point in the Rebels series we could see Ezra witnessing Kanaan's inability to save Sabine. Thus, inevitably setting up Ezra's path to the dark side.

Anyways, back on point, I think it would be a neat twist to have Rebels lead us into EP7 but at the same time I highly doubt this is the intention of Disney/JJ. Nonetheless Rebels has met my expectations so far.

 

I'm still not fully sold on this series. I realize that it is a show designed for kids to watch, but I really hope we see things continue to shift towards a similar tone to CW. I also wish that the episodes were longer.

I agree with others about the "laser sword" line that Kanan had, for me it was VERY jarring, I nearly stopped the episode right there. It would have been fine had somebody corrected him somehow. Maybe like this:

Ezra: "Don't you mean lightsaber?"
Kanan: "A lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi, which you are not...yet."

OR

Ezra: "Don't you mean lightsaber?"
Kanan: "Not the way YOU use it! A lightsaber is a weapon one wields with skill and finesse, not like someone shaking a stick at a womp rat they're trying to scare away!"

OR

If anyone had mentioned the word "lightsaber" anywhere throughout the rest of the episode.

Another thing that bugged me slightly was Kanan using the term "turbolift", now while that term does exist in the Star Wars universe according to Wookieepedia. My brain associates it with Star Trek where it is used ALL the time. It just bugged my ears hearing it in SW.

Also, the scene in the cell with the Master Unduli hologram...I'm pretty sure it had to be a hologram right? I saw someone(somewhere else I think) speculate that it was a force ghost, but there would be a handful of problems with that theory. 1. She wouldn't be dressed in prison garb. 2. They would have portrayed her more blue. 3. She wouldn't be sitting there in a cell helping make a trap, she'd be warning any Jedi that it was a trap. 4. Her body would no longer be there in the first place. Sooooo hologram...

As for the show in general. I'm still watching so there's that. Though I'm not a big fan of Aladdin...I mean Ezra and Chopper has bugged me since development videos they put out on the Star Wars YouTube channel. I feel like Chopper is too much of a cartoon character. I sort of wish they made his personality a little more subdued, I don't know. It might even be just how much he moves that bothers me. Various incarnations of R2 have gotten across a ton of personality without him ever smacking himself on the head or whatever, and as odd as it might sound, I've been known to claim R2-D2 as my favorite SW character.

Anyway, this is just a bunch of stuff I mainly wanted to just say somewhere, which is why I made an account here.

 

KevinZiggy, I'm about where you are with Rebels. It's taking me a lot longer to really warm up to it than it did for me to start getting into The Clone Wars. I want to like it, but it really hasn't started clicking for me yet.

That said, this episode came the closest for me so far. Finally, there is a credible threat for the heroes to deal with. All we've seen them go up against so far is a bunch of Imperials who can't hit a stationary target from five feet away (which is ridiculous, even by OT standards.) The Inquisitor comes across much better in action than I expected him to, and Jason Isaacs is an excellent choice to voice him. Plus, the fact that he kept a Jedi in stasis long after she had died just as bait for a Jedi trap is brilliantly twisted.

I also like the fact that Kanan himself is very unsure as to whether or not he's even capable of training Ezra, let alone whether or not it's a good idea for him to be trained in the first place.

That said, I'm finding the constant attempts to portray the crew as a "family" to be rather forced and hamfisted. I mean, lets face it... the last shot of this episode was obviously set up to look like "father and son play a game of catch out in the front yard." I understand that this is Disney and all, but this family dynamic is so ridiculously cliched and obvious while also being incredibly limiting at the same time. It feels like we're about this close to an episode where Zeb and Ezra get grounded for breaking mom's favorite flower vase.

Still, I enjoyed this episode a good bit more than I have the previous episodes (especially last week's shopping expedition) and I hope that it bodes well for things to come. If they can start moving the program more in the direction of The Clone Wars and further away from Lassie, I think it'll really begin to pick up.

 

I love this series so far and I am 26.

 

Definitely the best Episode thus far.

We finally see what's been eating away at Kanan and why he has been hesitant to teach Ezra. He doesn't know how to teach. All he is doing is mimicking what he was taught as a Padawan, but he lacks the understanding. This is evident when he mimics Yoda's teachings, but, admits he doesn't get it. This makes sense because he himself was still just a Padawan when Order 66 was instituted. However, he seems to get "it" (at the very least Yoda's teachings on do or do not) at the end of the Episode when he says he isn't going to try and train Ezra, he is going to, and they may both fail along the way. So both Kanan and Ezra will be growing together. Kanan has a lot of learning to do himself.

Ezra is eager to learn, but, too eager. Obviously he suffers from the same issues as Luke. He wants to learn for all the wrong reasons, cause he wants to have fun, adventure, because it's cool. As we see when he is enamored when Kanan mind tricks the stormies. He can't wait to learn it. It all plays into him being too old to learn.

Now with Unduli. It was definitely a hologram. Obviously Unduli was and died in captivity. The Empire leaked the images of her being marched/guarded by stormies, which they could have only gotten if they had her in custody. They then used the hologram of her in the cell in order to get any would be Jedi rescuers to actually enter the cell. Thus trap sprung. One thing I noticed is that it wasn't just Unduli's bones in the casket. She was mummified. She still had lips (could still see her tattoo on her chin) and eyelids it looked like, even though the skin on her nose had decayed away.



A lot of questions about how Kanan could still feel her presence. Possibly the midichlorians still remain in her mummified body?

Now onto the Inquisitor. Great entrance to hopefully a great villain. Obviously he is well trained, and obviously he is under orders by Vader (From the Vader scene that was added onto the movie) to try and recruit some force sensitives to the Empires ranks. He gives it a somewhat half-hearted try, then just decides to kill Ezra anyway. I don't blame him. In the world of the Sith, it has to be known you are only valuable until someone more powerful comes along, then you're fired.

Over-all a very good episode. I couldn't detect any plot holes, as I have in previous episodes that I wrote about in the other episode reviews.

As for some of the complaints about chopper, I like chopper, my kids like chopper. They both laughed at his antics, as did I. The pissing and moaning about some of the humor or more family oriented content is getting tiresome already. I too prefer the darker more adult elements of this episode, however, I also love that I can sit and share a laugh with my 7 and 9 year old daughters and have it Star Wars related. Star Wars is not just for you, it's not just for me, lighten up a little. If you can't at least realize that chopper is not there for you.

It's funny that I read more complaining about the humor and animation, than I see any real talk about the plot or plot holes. Like how does a castrated Imperial Senate actually force the Emperor to give up those disruptors, or why doesn't Kanan (a padawan of a Jedi Council member, and he also fought in the clone wars) recognize Organa. Why does a Lasat go unnoticed in a market with a heavy Imperial presence, when Kallus is looking for one of the few remaining Lasats in the galaxy. Why did the Empire want that farm? I would think that adults would be more worried about plot. Instead it's stormies and chopper humor that is a problem?

 

It is already available to purchase on iTunes and the Google play store

 

I keep hearing this "[INSERT STAR WARS ELEMENT HERE] isn't for you!" argument over and over again, whenever anyone complains about something being skewed specifically toward small children or some other sub-group of fans.

The thing is, I still remember when Star Wars - all of it - was for everyone. It wasn't broken down into "Well, this bit is for this demographic, and that bit is for that demographic, and we need to attract this other new demographic so let's add this other thing for them." It was just flippin' Star Wars, and it was crafted to appeal across the board, and it succeeded wildly at that without pandering specifically to anyone. (Then came the teddy bears with the pointed sticks, and...)

So when I hear the argument that "This part isn't for you, it's for another type of Star Wars fan," that indicates to me that the original Star Wars "gold standard" isn't being met.

 

Do you actually believe that the original Star Wars had some "gold standard" and that it didn't pander to a specific demographic?

Tell me what do you see here in these images?







You know what I see? I see a heavy, heavy, male showing! Why is that? Well that's because Star Wars was geared towards boys and men. With all the fighting, the explosions, violence, sword fighting, guns, and did I mention violence, I can see how your assertion that back in that "gold standard" of Star Wars that certain demographics weren't pandered too. And before I get bashed, I am not saying that only guys like that type of stuff. I am sure there are a lot of women that liked and loved Star Wars as well, however, anyone with commonsense can admit to the fact that when a movie like Star Wars was made they (mainly Lucas) knew that they were going after a certain demographic, that being male. If they picked up women along the way, well that was bonus. However, I would bet most (most being more than half not necessarily a huge majority) women that went to Star Wars in 1977 were dragged there by boyfriends, husbands, or their sons.

Oh but wait, they did pander to women! Impossible you say? This was the "golden standard"! Well lets look at Princess Leia. Leia was made to be a strong willed, free spirited and independent women. She wasn't the typical damsel in distress, or the typical Princess that needed saving from the dragon by her knight in shining armor. No, she didn't hide behind the male heroes as they fought to save her, she picked up a blaster, shot the bad guys, blew a hole in the wall, and saved the heroes. Do you really think that Leia's character was made that way to appeal to everyone? You would be wrong, even Lucas has come out and said he wanted Leia to be geared towards women. He made sure he wanted something in the movie that would appeal to women. So a strong female character was needed. Sounds like pandering to a certain demographic to me. Again, before I get bashed, I am not saying that pandering to women through Leia is a bad thing, I have no problem with it. However, the assumption that specific elements of the original Star Wars didn't pander to certain demographics is just wrong!

Oh then there was Lando, notice who else is missing in those lines....

I think your perspective on that "gold standard" doesn't match up with the reality.

So now lets get down to Rebels. If you still want to believe that Rebels should be more like Star Wars before Ewoks were introduced, well then that scene that you and I and so many other adults loved about Rise of the Masters... well that scene needs to be changed. The scene of Luminara certainly didn't appeal to my 7 and 9 year old, it completely went over their head. That scene obviously pandered to a much higher age demographic than what the TV Y7 age rating that is given to the show says the show is geared towards. I doubt that you have a problem with the obvious more adult theme in that scene.

What I get from your post isn't really that you think that Star Wars was for everyone, what I get is that you want Star Wars to be for the demographic you most associate with...

 

Look Mike, I remember 1977 and how that original movie went over with the people I knew, and the people my parents knew.

Yes, any movie with "Wars" in the title is going to tend to appeal to guys more than gals. But when school started back up that fall, damned near every kid in class was going nuts over Star Wars, including plenty of the girls who normally had nothing to do with "boy stuff". I specifically remember friends of my parents, of both sexes, talking about how amazing this new movie was.

So no, I don't agree with your assessment of the appeal of the original film. It was far broader than you're assuming that it was.

As for the Luminara scene being confusing to your kids, imagine how we all felt in '77 when Ben Kenobi suddenly disappeared and then started talking to Luke from Somewhere Else. We didn't immediately suss that one out, but it sure didn't bother us that we couldn't. It was just one of those cool mysteries for us to talk about.

 

Again, as I said in my earlier post, I realized and made the comments that I was sure there were plenty of women that loved Star Wars. However, it was geared towards a male demographic. It became such a phenomenon that eventually more women went to see Star Wars than any other sci-fi film before it. However, it will not change the fact that it was originally intended with a male audience in mind that is what sci-fi was intended towards back than.

As for the Obi Wan example, you actually proved my point. That point being that in Star Wars there are elements that the younger audience would not understand, that only the older audience would understand. Instead of dumbing it down so that the younger audience (thus everyone) could understand, he (Lucas) left it as it so that those young kids could grow into it and understand it, once they got past the excitement of the explosions, violence, spaceships etc. He knew that there were going to be only elements of Star Wars that specifically adults would understand. Another example of that is the cave scene in ESB. I doubt that there were many children below the age of 13 that understood what was going on in the cave. However, it worked because it was known that adults (or older teens) would get it. Eventually those kids that were there for the fun stuff (guns, explosions, fighting etc) would grow to understand what the cave scene meant. Which is exactly what happened to me.

My girls love chopper and the humor kiddy stuff. My hope is that one day when they get older they grow into the more serious tones of the movies, so I can enjoy that with them. So that one day I can have a conversation that isn't about chopper, or Ewoks, or lightsaber battles, but will be about what the cave scene in ESB means... Getting them interested has to start somewhere, and if that is chopper and Ewoks, than so be it!

 

Mike, you're splitting some pretty thin hairs here.

No, Star Wars was never intended to be a "chick flick". That's just the point - it was what it was, and it wasn't driven by a bunch of marketing people targeting specific demographics and saying "Well, we need this element to attract that type of viewer, and that element to attract that type of viewer..." George Lucas just had an idea of a kind of movie that he wanted to see, and that he thought that people would like, and that's what he made.

And it had across-the-board appeal, right out of the gate.

There was nothing about that movie about which Lucas would have ever told somebody, "Well, that bit isn't for you, it's for this other kind of audience." That is a far more recent phenomena.

I agree, Star Wars didn't used to have to be dumbed down for children. It was incredibly successful with kids as well as adults without any sort of pandering. There were aspects of it that we didn't immediately get, but that was fine... we still loved those early movies, and never felt like we were missing out on anything. (Hell, even the old Bugs Bunny cartoons had jokes that were aimed over kids' heads, and we never minded that either!) Even back then, I always assumed that if I didn't quite understand something, I eventually would. I think most kids were fine with that.

The idea that now Star Wars needs X, Y, and/or Z for "kiddie appeal" is absolutely ridiculous. It never needed that before, and it doesn't need it now.

It's the difference between a movie or TV show aging well or not. Whether we're talking about adding "kiddie" elements or adding faddish speech or modes of dress, it's all stuff that anchors a movie or TV show in a specific mindset or time period. And then you look back at it later in life and cringe. TV shows from the 1980s, for instance, that were overly burdened with "valley girl" speak and that sort of flash-in-the-pan nonsense just look cheesy and forgettable now. Put a bunch of blatantly childish elements into a movie, and yeah, you're going to entertain kids in the short term. But then they grow up and that "kiddie" stuff starts sticking out like a sore thumb.

Something like the original Star Wars film just ages a lot better because it's not bogged down with a bunch of elements that its younger fans are eventually going to outgrow. ANH is built to last. Jar Jar and "Yippee!!" and farting space camels... not so much.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, but, he didn't make Star Wars just because he thought it was a movie he would want to see. He made Star Wars because he was flat broke. After he was done with American Graffiti, and Universal basically took it from him and shelved it while they decided what to do with it (even thinking about making a made for tv movie), Lucas was in a huge amount of debt. He had a choice, either continue to try and make Apocalypse Now, or make Star Wars. He went with Star Wars because Universal (I think it was Universal) had dumped Apocalypse Now and no other Studio would touch it. So Star Wars it was, out of the need for money, not story. The story came after. In fact the irony of the situation was that when Universal finally decided to release Graffiti in the theaters it became a huge success. The money from Graffiti started to roll in, unfortunately it went right back into Star Wars because Fox Studios was dragging their feet on making a deal with Lucas, even though Lucas had started pre-production. Lucas put tens of thousands of dollars of his own money (Graffiti money) into Star Wars before Fox signed a deal.

Now George didn't have a marketing team at this point, but, I think it's obvious that when any screenwriter, filmmaker etc wants to make a movie, they are going to write it and make it in a way that they can.... market it and make money. Through all the different stages of what Star Wars started as to what it became, if anyone doesn't think that in the back of good ole Georges brain he wasn't keeping in mind what would put asses in the seats and take money out of peoples pockets and put it in his, well I think that's gullible. I am not saying that's a bad thing, I would do the same. However, let's not pretend that he was just writing the story for the sake of the story. Trust me, I am a huge Lucas Fan Boy, but, I am also realistic in motivations of why movies get made. To market it, and make money,

As I said before the character of Princess Leia was specifically made the way she was to appeal to women, to put women in the seats. That is marketing to a specific demographic.

Whether you want to believe it or not, pandering is there in those movies.

I get it, you don't like the pandering to kids, you are entitled to your opinion. However, to gloss over elements in the original movies that pander to adults, women, men and pretend they didn't happen tells me that you are just against pandering to kids, but don't mind the pandering to adults. I get it, you feel.. [Let the kiddos sit there and drool as the adult themes go over their heads. They should be happy with just spaceships and things that I can like too, they don't need their own content. But I still want my adult content and themes though...]

Will fans out grow some elements of Star Wars? Obliviously yes, but, that is why you have different elements that work on different levels. Some appeal to kids, some to adult some to both.

Afterall, it's a cartoon on a Disney channel with a rating of Y7.

Edit: I have to wonder if there was this much debate among adults in the 80's over the Show Droids.... Or did our parents understand cartoons were for kids....

 

Yes...he also said something like it was clouded or something

 

I'm inbetween, I loved the first episode the feature length one (essentially two episodes in one) I wasn't completely sold on the last epsiode. However this episode was much better, kept my attention, yes I understand the whole laser sword thing bugged everybody out, but he's talking to a kid who's not yet a Jedi, not even a novice yet. I hope they keep progressing with the show, I like the humour the writers have brought into it. I normally do like my animated shows darker, but hey I got a whole bunch of anime for that craving. Anyway I also made an account today to talk about this show. So far, I'm enjoying it bar one episode, hope they keep up the good, hard work. (Need to work harder on the Wookies) Peace.

 

The show and the Jedi training and all sound great, but since this is made in the time before ROTJ, it means that the Inquisitor will kill off ALL these Jedi. Talk about dark.

 

This is the best episode thusfar. The villain is iconic, unique, and it makes perfect sense that they would have inquisitors hunting down Jedi or Force sensatives who had escaped Order 66.

In regards to the Mike/DEKKA debate, folks can claim what George Lucas intended all day long, but without actual quotes to point to, they amount to mostly speculation because a lot of the history of the making of Star Wars has been revised in the last 5-10 years in order to satisfy political correctness.

In regards to the question as to what demographic Star Wars was intended for, I would speculate it is likely that it was intended for the same demographic that the Flash Gordon serials that inspired Star Wars was intended for; the 13-18 male crowd.

Having said that, back in the 1970s and early 1980s my friends from school and in my neighborhood often played with and traded Star Wars figures and other merchandising. None of them were girls.

In fact throughout high school in the late 1980s, both Star Trek and Star Wars were considered girl kryptonite.