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Rebels series rewatch...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Rebels' started by Deac421, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Official

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    Hang with me on this one...

    In a bout of quarantine blues, I recently rewatched all of Rebels. I really liked it the first go around, but upon rewatching, I really think Rebels is my absolute favorite chunk of SWs outside of the OT by a wide margin. I absolutely loved it.

    One of the best part of the OT that was sorely lacking in the ST was the relationship among the lead characters. The relationship among the Ghost crew was the best in all of SW. Granted, the had 4 seasons to build those connections and stakes, but the did and did it wonderfully. We really to see how and why Ezra grew from a stranger into a full fledged member of the crew. And the scene when Kanan sacrificed himself to save the crew was the only time I’ve cried in SW. I’m not the type that does that for shows/movies so it speaks to the emotional connection and stakes created with the crew.

    It also struck just the right balance between new characters and adventures while keeping one foot in what we already knew about SW and the rebellion. It was mostly new so it felt fresh and exciting but had just the right amount of familiar for that warm, comfy feeling.

    When I first watched the series, I thought there were a lot of filler episodes. But with subsequent viewings and knowing how everything comes together, I understood they weren’t fillers (eg the Pergill (sp?) episode) but setting up for a payoff later. And to the extent there wasn’t a payoff later, I had a better appreciation for how, at the very least, those episodes were building the relationships and stakes I loved so much.

    I also liked that most of the character weren’t the broken, conflicted, darker heros we often get these days. Ezra had a bit of that but it was with a purpose as he grew from orphan to a fully realized hero at the end. The rest of the crew may have had their histories, but they were clear cut good guys with good intentions.

    Lastly... and this is where I may lose a lot of people...

    Rebels introduced a solution to what I believe is the weakest part of the SW world, the ST. I thought TFA was good, not great, a solid movie to reintroduce the SW universe but didn’t really offer a ton new. I hated TLJ as a movie and where it took the SW universe. I thought TROS was a clunky, awkward attempt to try to rectify TLJ which left it wholly unsatisfying. Most importantly I didn’t like that Palpatine was the big bad... kind of lessens the point of the beloved OT where Anakin the chosen one redeems himself and brings balance to the force by killing Palpatine.

    A Disney project (movies, series?) could focus on Sabine and Ashoka finding Ezra and a plot point when the find him could be around the World Between Worlds. He could somehow use that to alter events that basically nullify the ST. How exactly they do that, I’m not sure. There are more creative people than me that could figure that out.

    But my larger point is there is already establish a mechanism to retcon the ST. I get that would be very controversial and would require somehow getting the casual fan up the learning curve on Rebels, but the path is there.

    There are many paths in front of Disney, retconning isn’t the one they wanted to take, but it is the one they have to.(ezra)
     
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  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Jedi General

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    I really like Rebels more than most people but I think I still put TCW above it.
     
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  3. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Same
     
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  4. Whipswar

    Whipswar Rebelscum

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    I was well above the "intended" age of the Rebels audience, but I found myself captivated by it. I loved every season, and looked forward to every episode. I think it's really good Star Wars. Introduces some great lore, gives us the heroic journey and growth of Ezra, and kept it interesting and unique the entire time.

    That's where I think animation has it's strong points. Can you imagine Hyperspace Whales in an actual movie? I couldn't, but it was dope. Can you imagine a mystical wolf, or the Bendu? That's where animation comes in strong.
     
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  5. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Official

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    TCW wins in world building and establishing lore. Rebels wins hands down in intimacy and relationships but also holds its own in lore and world building.

    The intimacy and relationships piece that could almost stand on its own absent the rest of SW puts it over the top for me.

    It’s total personal taste and I LOVE TCW too so it’s really splitting hairs for me.

    But if you haven’t watched Rebels a second time in more of a binge format... I highly recommend!
     
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  6. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    I'm making my way through TCW for the second time right now. But then Rebels is next. :)
     
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  7. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Jedi General

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    TCW also might be due to nostalgia as I grew up with it when I was a kid
     
  8. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Official

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    I’m surprised no one has wanted to touch the part of my post about retconning the ST! I was sure that was going to get the strongest response (both positive and negative).
    ;)
     
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  9. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    I grew up watching TCW during high-school but nostalgia aside I do think it's objectively a considerably better series than Rebels, but Rebels is great in its own way and has more of a family feel. This isn't a criticism of Rebels at all, i just think TCW is that good.
     
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  10. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    Very well, haha, I'll bite. ;)

    I really hope that they don't de-canonize the ST. This is easy enough for me to say as someone who does enjoy it, and I get that the ST isn't for everyone. But the PT was just as contentious back in the day and they ultimately kept that in canon despite its hiccups. It seems strange then to think that Disney would want to remove the ST from canon. Like, I'm sure they're well aware by now of the mistakes that they made with it, but I think at this point the best thing to do would be to leave it as it is and just move on with other projects like The Mandalorian and the High Republic.

    On the topic of the World Between Worlds, it's a really cool idea. But I hope that they only use things like that minimally going forward, and certainly not to erase parts of the SW timeline.
     
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  11. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Sorry, but the thought of de-canonizing the ST is ridiculous. It has been a huge critical, financial, and artistic success, with overwhelming support outside of the YouTube hate mongerer circuit and such, and the notion of de-canonizing the ST is nothing but haters' echo chamber wet dreams. LFL/Disney will continue making new and original material going forward, and there won't be any reboots or such (this is not a superhero franchise with a loose relationship to continuity).

    That said, we MIGHT see alternative releases, like extended editions or possibly even directors' cuts for some SW titles down the line, but that would be years and years in the future. :)


    PS: The idea of de-canonizing the PT is equally ridiculous, as is the notion of rebooting/remaking the OT. That stuff ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, and instead we'll see fresh and original titles coming out of the LFL/Disney pop-culture engine.
     
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  12. Matt_T

    Matt_T Rebel General

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    I'm in the process of rewatching Rebels now. Usually one episode per night after we've got the kid to bed. I agree with most of the OP's post. Hera and Sabine are two of my favorite characters in all of SW, and the inclusion of Ahsoka put it over the top. It's hard for me to compare Rebels vs. TCW, as I like both -- they are different in storytelling, animation and overall thematics. I think the relationships (as stated throughout this thread) may be what draws me back to this particular show.

    And in fairness, I should mention that I'm not a huge Force wolves/space whales fan; I get it and accept them as pieces of the puzzle. I was let down by the conclusion upon my first watch (which was in real-time) but have since learned to appreciate it. (In fact, my first post in The Cantina was during the Rebels Finale Watch Party, and I voiced my displeasure! I wish I could have those posts back!) I was expecting a lead-in to the battle of Scarif and obviously that didn't happen. And I thought the epilogue was a bit too ... lazy? ... in how it wrapped the overall show. Like, 'Oh BTW, here's what everyone did after you invested X years watching the show. See ya!' But honestly, the hardest part of any series is nailing that perfect ending, so what are ya gonna do? Anyway, these critiques are mine alone, and I've learned to live with them. Rebels is still a go-to for me. Love the era, love the story, love the characters.
     
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  13. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    That topic has been a legit forum burner since TPM /Attack of the Jangos were released. My first ban occurred in 2001 and it was directly related to the retcon & Rick McCallum is a "yes-man" moron debate. I have watched SW-anons rage on from the PT to TCW, to Rebels, R1 and now the Sequels. Its ironic. I have only encountered the RETCON discussion online and NEVER in person.... most people that I've spoken with directly are polarized one way or the other and those who've loathed the PT/ST, simply ignore them.

    No retcons requested, it's just I'm not watching those... or, I didn't bother with the last one (or sometimes 2).

    G. Walton Lucas has spent almost 40 years ignoring The Star Wars Holiday Special. For 30 years, he has tweaked the OT and during the creation of the Prequels, Lucas raided the old Expanded Universe for ideas.... so cherry picking and or, retconning Star Wars is just not as big of a deal to me.... at least not anymore.
    Agreed.
     
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  14. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I like Rebels as much as most people here I guess. It has its highs and lows. My biggest problems with it aren't even the show's fault, but the fact that I can't separate where I thought the show was going to and felt it should have gone with where it went.
    For example, I loved Zare Leonis when he was introduced. I thought he could play into the story in a meaningful way, or at least that his kids books would lead somewhere. But neither thing happened, and his story feels like a lost opportunity.
    And the you have the Inquisitors. This would have been a great opportunity to work in some of the Emperor's Hand characters ala Mara Jade, but the show seemed determined to destroy them all by the end of Season Two, even though we saw, four in total. (Thank you Charle Soule and Jedi: Fallen Order for rectifying this!)
    And the Iron Squadron would have been a great chance for Ezra and/or Sabine to not only improve their leadership skills, but to give them someone their age to actually talk to outside each other.
    Oh, and the whole "let the finale lead into Scariff so I can watch the finale, Rogue One, and ANH back-to-back-to-back" thing.

    Adding to that when the show decided to end and all of TCW characters added, to me Rebels felt like Filoni was in a "once burned, twice shy" situation. He had seen what it was like to have a show in steady decline and then cut off, and he was so afraid it'd happen again, he ended it before it probably should have ended. And Disney, not really green-lighting the project out of passion but out of necessity of sorts, didn't give the show the funding it deserved.

    But for what I got, I'm more or less happy.

    In terms of the reboot-the-ST angle, I think it's a little more complex. There won't be a hard reset of the ST ala "these movies were horrible, let's do them over." Or there won't be one until Disney decides to reboot the OG trilogy, which I believe will happen eventually. Remember, nothing is sacred to Disney if it means making money. If a reboot of the OT helps sales in China, then Disney will do so. If a reboot revitalizes market interest in Star Wars, then it will happen. No movie is sacred. Even stories like Twelve Angry Men and The Magnificent Seven are rebooted. Even characters like Superman, Wolverine, and Spider-Man are rebooted. Eventually, even the MCU will end and the characters rebooted. I'm not saying that Star Wars will be rebooted anytime soon, but I believe it will happen.

    What Disney could do, if they decided that the ST was a little too...controversial for their liking - which it really hasn't been - is pull a Logan. Or maybe an anti-TFA Han? Have a character from the ST later in life claim that the events the new characters have heard did happen in some fashion, but not like the stories the new characters have heard. From there the creators could leave it as ambiguous as to what happened ("there's always a bit of truth in legends" or "maybe a quarter of it happened and not like this.") or they could fully explain what happened. That's definitely the route I would take.

    But yeah, Disney and Lucasfilm are sticking with the ST, for better or worse.
     
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  15. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Official

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    I don’t think they should de-cannonize it. But if they open up a separate timeline where the events of ST didn’t happen that would create a branch where we could see another post ROTJ story. Feels like a win win to me.

    I agree that PT was equally (maybe more?) disliked at their release. However I think for different reasons. PT was hated for being terribly made movies (too much CGI, wooden acting, terrible dialog). But it did do a good job of adding to the SW lore. That’s a combo that made it critically reviled (even to this day) but allowed SW fans to warm to it over time. ST trilogy was the opposite. I think they were all well made movies, but didn’t add much to lore and the things it did add borderline spat on what had been established before and suffered real awkwardness from multiple people in control. Each movie seemed too intent on undoing what the prior movie did.
     
  16. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Feels like a watering down of emotional impact, pop-cultural significance, and mythological status of SW to me.

    Obviously, I disagree 100% with you here but there are already a hundred threads about trashing the ST around here and the cirular arguments have gone on for so many rotations I shan't launch into that here.

    The point was, rebooting any SW trilogy/movie is a terrible idea and won't happen. SW is art and modern mythology, not some unimportant popcorn flicks that will fade in time and doesn't matter. And it is definitely not a super hero franchise where timelines don't mean anything and all that is important is which character to match up in a fight next. Lore can be added with other films and TV shows and books and such, you know, like they did for the OT & PT.

    The only way you'll ever see a different version of any of the trilogies is if they end up doing anime-versions or whatever, recreating the same material in a different artform. (Like how the novelizations differ from the films).

    Well, don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion so I'm going to bow out. Good luck.
     
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  17. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    At some level though, to me at least, that would feel like an attempt at a de-canonization. If they push the ST off into a different timeline so they can create a new post-ROTJ story, then it feels like it'd be saying "That story didn't really mater; it isn't going to come into play here". Since, presumably if a new timeline is created, then they'd focus on that one instead and neglect the ST timeline, and thus it'd exist in isolation in its own offshoot timeline. Even moreso if the next set of movies such as Rogue Squadron were to take place at a further point in the newer timeline, which would just add to the ST feeling irrelevant. As Angelman said, it would dampen their emotional impact.

    That, and I feel we already are getting a new post-ROTJ story anyway with The Mandalorian. Even though it'll likely eventually have some tie-ins to the ST, but for now Jon and Dave seem to have a lot of freedom in creating their own story and the ST doesn't appear to be hampering them in that regard. Likewise, I don't think it'll be hard to set new stories after Episode IX either.
     
    #17 StardustSoldier, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  18. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Jedi General

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    It’s just - can of worms I don’t want to open
     
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  19. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Appreciation for these two beautiful episodes
    Ahsoka-StarWars-2-2020.jpg star-wars-rebels-3x19-plano-critico.jpg
     
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  20. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Both of THOSE duels had some righteous lines, @MandoChip . +1
     
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