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SPOILER Restoring the PT's Archive Memory: A Spoiler, Script & Novel Discussion

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Lord of the Rens, Aug 25, 2016.

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Do spoilers enhance your Star Wars experience?

  1. Absolutely! A day without spoilers is like a day without sunshine.

    36.2%
  2. Sometimes. Depends on if I like the spoiler or not.

    42.6%
  3. No. I take films as they are and never wonder what might have been.

    21.3%
  1. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    I believe Sifo-Dyas placed the order for the clone army but I'm not totally sure.

    In legends, wasn't Plagueis supposed to have persuaded Sifo-Dyas into ordering the clone army and told him he would fund it?
     
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  2. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Yes, I think that's correct.
     
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  3. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    [​IMG]
    The moment you find out that Darth Sidious ordered the clones and Sifo Dyas never existed. And somebody has it on film.
     
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  4. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    The way you feel knowing that the PT was further screwed up due to a typo that the creator liked.

    star-wars-mace-windu-freaking-out-crazy-Samuel-L-Jackson-1382659905O.gif
     
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  5. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    Post not intended to be taken seriously, its a smarmy look at how different things are:

    2nd Disclaimer: This post does not mention blood tests & mesomorphians, or whatever they're called. Or Dathomir.

    3rd Disclaimer: The following post is dark and full of ancient rumors. THIS, is a rough summation of 34 thousand script scribbles, Sith inspired set leaks and other random spoiler sources. I will not post any proof, I leave that endeavor to the 2 sleuths ( @kb93 @Alex Sebire ) who have provided Jedi-Master level assistance during my research mission. I'm not a keeper of the peace, I'm a soldier sailor seeking fortune and power.
    Or something.


    Anyways, lets get on with the patently-absurd then, shall we?



    A long time ago, in notebooks that will never see the light of day...

    The Sith influenced everything. Shocked? I wasn't. Prior to the Phantom Menace & long before the Attack of the Jangos, two Dark Lords conspired to bring down the Jedi Order and subjugate the galaxy. One was a master of manipulation; a genious level schemer and the other, would later be known as the wisest Sith who ever lived. Together, they would bend the force to their will, discredit and eliminate the Jedi then bring order to the discombobulated Republic. The Master declared the Rule of Two to be obsolete, then the Apprentice began to train a powerful force user (a Zabrak from Iridonia) that they had secreted away from an orphanage on the (city-planet) capital of Corsucant.

    With Sidious busy as a politician and spending all of his free time tattooing training Darth Maul, the Muun devoted himself to unlocking the mysteries of the force, through obscure methods of dark Lords long since dead. An aspiring acolyte named Venamis became the first sentient victim of experimentation and through him, Plagueis mastered the art of force manipulation.... by the time he was finally allowed to expire, Venamis had already been killed and revived hundreds (if not thousands) of times. Had the Sith hopeful been able to speak, the Bith almost certainly would have begged his tormentor for permanent death. Soon after, the two Sith Lords broke from tradition and worked in harmony; an unnatural event to say the least, in an effort to touch all life in the galaxy.... so drunk on the dark side was Plagueis, that he imposed his will upon the force in an attempt to create sentient life from nothing. Perhaps the force struck back, perhaps it did not.

    After the boy's conception the Sith Master sent his Apprentice on a mission to Kamino (under the guise of a Jedi Master named Sido Dyas who did not even exist) Darth Sidious placed an order for a Clone Army, in the name of the Republic. The Sith Lords turned to a former Jedi Master named Count Dooku; who had left the Order some time ago to pursue his own dark agenda, to select a template for the army in order to keep their identities secret. With Maul's terrorist-acts causing havoc in the corporate Sector, Dooku was tasked with using his charisma to their advantage, to turn the Senate inside out and create a Separatist movement. By the start of the next decade, the galaxy would be at war.


    Nine months later, a prodigious child was born on Tatooine, a human male with the highest connection to the force that Jedi had ever seen sensed in another life form. Rather than take the boy to indoctrinate him into their Order, the Sith Lords decided it would be better for the Jedi to "discover" and train him during his formative years. So narrow minded and dogmatic were they, that the Sith were certain that the child of the dark side would learn to despise & loathe the restrictions that would placed upon him. In time (with proper motivation) he would turn on them, break his chains and set himself free.


    At some point; Maul failed to complete a mission and was left for dead, while Dooku remained loyal to his Masters' cause. The child of the dark side was now a headstrong Jedi, one who often let his emotions get the best of him and the Sith prepared for the final stages of their plot to destroy the Jedi. Prior to becoming a Jedi Knight, young Skywalker served as an intern at the Chancellor's office, where he was befriended by a Senator named Palpatine, who cooed in the boy's ear while he undermined the lessons of the Jedi. After losing his braid, Skywalker had secretly taken a wife (who ended up being barren) so the young Jedi searched for a cure in the Jedi archives but he was not a Master and access to the archive was denied.


    While escorting the new Chancellor to the Opera, Skywalker expressed his frustrations with the Jedi to Palpatine who proceeded to tell him about his Master, Plagueis the wise.... when Anakin inquired where to learn these powers of life and death, he was told that only a Sith Lord could teach him. Confident that Skywalker would join him, Sidious attempted to kill his Master while he was deep in meditation. But Plagueis had foreseen the act of betrayal and was properly prepared for the assault... utilizing the art of the small, the Muun shrunk his presence in the force until Sidious believed him to be dead. Instead of burning the body, Sidious paid respect to Plagueis and gave him a proper Sith burial.... this would be the Empire's final undoing, 50 years into the future. But that Sequel-story is for another time.


    Doubtful of Palpatine's claims, Skywalker questioned the Chancellor once again and the response he got was a startling one.... Sidious revealed himself and explained how Anakin came to be. A quick search of his feelings and Skywalker knew it to be true... "that he could almost think of Palpatine as his father." After another restless night of sleep filled with many (Sidious-inspired) dreams of his dying wife, Anakin decided to join the Sith to acquire their knowledge and wipe them out from within. Thus, his life as a double agent, began. For his first lesson, Palpatine explained how to unnaturally create life in the womb of a barren woman, but before he finished he told Anakin that he never fully learned the secret to saving loved ones, because a true Lord of the Sith would never fall prey to such weakness.... he concluded by saying that he was certain Plagueis had left the information in his lab on the Hunter's moon over Korriban. That night; while his wife slept, Skywalker performed the Sith ritual and his journey towards the dark side was nearly complete.


    Close to her delivery date, Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi had a dream about the truth of lady-Skywalker's poorly hidden pregnancy and confronted her about it. Anakin; who was spying on them, became incensed and decided to eliminate the Jedi Master before he could inform the Jedi Council. He went to Sidious (who had foreseen a terrible ending for his prized Apprentice but refused to divulge it) for advice and they decided to set a trap for Kenobi on Sullust. Unbeknownst to Skywalker, his wife stowed herself away on Kenobi's ship.... and the rest is basically the same, except Kenobi caused Vader to stumble and he accidentally choked her to death but the droids delivered Luke the twins.


    ****

    I'm sure KB & Alex will clean up this mess when they post proof of what really happened.

    :D
     
    #45 Lord of the Rens, Sep 13, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
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  6. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    The novelization retained the idea of Anakin needing access to the Jedi Archives - not to have a kid, but to save Padme's life. It really would have made more sense staying in the movie. It gave a compelling motive for him wanting to be a Jedi Master and not trusting the Jedi. The novelization also included Obi Wan telling Padme that he knew about her and Anakin's relationship, another element which should have remained in the final version.

    Edit: the book also had the more gradual turn of Anakin to the dark side. He wasn't a double agent, per se, after Sidious revealed his true identity, but he talked with him for a while after that, and had obviously turned at the Jedi Temple, before going to the Chancellor's office and slicing Windu's hand off.
     
    #46 tm0910196, Sep 13, 2016
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  7. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    Getting all of that together took much longer than I expected. I need a nap.
     
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  8. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Proof of this comes from page 42 of Making of Star Wars Ep III by J.W Rinzler:

    [​IMG]


    This is also referenced in Making of Star Wars Ep III :

    [​IMG]

    The experiment/torture of Venamis is mentioned in the decanonised Darth Plagueis novel. Venamis had it rough!



     
    #48 Fuzzball, Sep 13, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
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  9. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Some filmed scenes that didn't make the final cut of Revenge of the Sith and weren't released in the deleted scenes section :). It's a lot! :D:
    • Dooku tells Obi-Wan he has became too predictable.
    • Some extra swordplay during the duel with Dooku.
    • Some cut dialogue from the Jedi Temple security recording refers to Vader's power growing.
    • Most of R2D2's Federation Cruiser hangar gags.
    • An extended shot of Anakin marching through the halls of the Jedi Temple while the battle wages on in the background.
    • Bail Organa was orignally meant to have a brief firefight with some clones at the Jedi Temple. After witnessing the youngling Titi Jukassa's murder, the clones would attempt to murder him.
    • The Jedi Temple was originally heavily guarded, and Obi-Wan and Yoda had to be careful to remain undetected.
    • A whole bunch of Palpatine-centric cliffhangers on the Federation Cruiser.
    • Mace Windu greeting Palpatine and the Jedi right after their crash-landing on Coruscant.
    • Yoda, Obi-Wan and Mace discussing the Dark Side in Yoda's quarters.
    • Obi-Wan tells Padme of his concern for Anakin and confesses that he knows they're in love.
    • A shot of Sidious' Theta-class shuttle approaching Coruscant flanked by three V-Wings.
    • Anakin informs Palpatine that Obi-Wan soon will have Grievous' head.
    • Jar Jar greets Anakin at the Senate. This was cut because Lucas wanted the film to feel darker and felt that a Jar Jar-centric scene would not fit the tone of the film at all.
    • Anakin confronts Padme.
    • The Republic cruiser arriving at Utapau.
    • Obi-Wan observes the tenth level with his electro-binocs and ponders on how to get up there. He mind-tricks the animal wrangler into lending him the lizard Boga. She is also said to be force-sensitive in some versions of the script.
    • Obi-Wan was originally meant to fight two of the magnaguards on Utapau before dropping the block on the third instead of all three of them.
    • Mace speaks with Yoda on Kashyyyk, informing him of his plans to arrest Palpatine.
    • The seeker droids on Utapau nearly detect Obi-Wan, however one is devoured by a Nos monster and the other is chased away by it.
    • Tion Medon is questioned by a magnaguard after speaking to Obi-Wan.
    • A "crazy" Yoda and Chewbacca ambush an AT-RT. Yoda, hidden in the mud, jumps out and mind-tricks a clone which Chewbacca then overpowers and chucks into the lake. Yoda jokes about the mud stinking and takes a bath. He then proceeds to hop on a flying creature known as a Can-Cell and takes off towards the pod with Chewie and Tarfful behind him on the AT-RT.
    • More Separatists like Wat Tambor were originally meant to die in the conference room on Mustafar and Droidekas were to get involved in the fight as well.
    • Anakin is shown to be more compassionate during his duel against Obi-Wan, as he truly doesn't want to kill his master. He even begs him for help when fatally wounded, which Obi-Wan refuses to provide, leaving him to die.
    • Obi-Wan briefly dual-wields Anakin's lightsaber as well as his own during the Mustafar fight.
    • The kick outside the control room on Mustafar sent Obi-Wan over the edge of the balcony onto the pipes we see in the next shot involving them.
    • The Mustafar duel was originally meant to be intercut with the droids moving Padme onto the ship, but was changed to the Yoda vs Sidious fight instead.
    • A few more physical blows between Obi-Wan and Anakin are exchanged.
    • The Emperor observes the Separatists' remains on Mustafar.
    • The Obi-Wan/ Grevious fight continues on a cliff, near a train, and on top of some windmills. Grevious also make preparations for a potential escape.
    • Dooku was meant to cry and beg for his life, but Christopher Lee felt this was out of character.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 13, 2016 ---
    Yes, it was a very interesting find :).
     
    #49 GingerByte, Sep 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2016
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  10. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    IIRC, Yoda and the Can Cell were sold as a pair.... "to fly into battle."
    In the least, i know that concept art was done... lemme look and see what I can find.
    [​IMG]
    @Alex SebireFound it.

    Greatest, most detailed Star Wars novel ever written. And second place isn't even in the same star system.

    One hour with Venamis makes Bevel Lemelisk's life under Palpatine seem like a walk through a butterfly park.
    [​IMG]

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bevel_Lemelisk
    (Side-note: I will be gravely disappointed if Bevel doesn't make a cameo in Rogue One.)
    [​IMG]
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Venamis
     
    #50 Lord of the Rens, Sep 13, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
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  11. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    I had this toy back in the day. It never occurred to me that this was probably from something cut. I forgot about it until now.

    Almost every one of these was in the novel. Did any of the filmed-but-rejected sequences try to tie in Dooku's revelation about Sidious on Geonosis? That's in the book, but nowhere to be found in the film (which doesn't make any sense - you can't just ignore that!).
     
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  12. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    Yeah, THAT excerpt should be included. For educational purposes, at least.
     
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  13. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Well, I couldn't find anything mentioning that, so I didn't include it. I know The Clone Wars tied up this loose end in the Sifo-Dyas centric episode.

    If you or @Lord of the Rens can quote it or show me, I'll include it.
     
    #53 GingerByte, Sep 13, 2016
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  14. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I'd be pretty frackin' creeped to fly into battle with THAT .
     
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  15. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Here's one reference to it, in Chapter 8: Fault Lines. Windu is speaking to Obi Wan after the crash landing on Coruscant:

    Screen Shot 2016-09-14 at 9.02.28 PM.png

    Here's another reference to it, in Chapter 10: Masters. A discussion between Windu, Yoda, and Obi Wan:

    Screen Shot 2016-09-14 at 9.11.36 PM.png

    I think there were a couple others, but this ought to do the trick.
     
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  16. GingerByte

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    Well, you've provided a number of examples and that's done the trick, so I don't think I have to :p. Perhaps Lucas thought that Windu and Yoda saying that they'll keep a closer eye on the senate when Obi-Wan infroms them of this in AOTC, and tasking Anakin with spying on Palpatine in ROTS already made it clear?
     
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  17. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Perhaps. Though if that was Lucas' idea, I don't think it was a very good one. ;) The final film makes it seem as though the Jedi simply don't trust Palpatine, and feel he has some connection with the Dark Side. The book, in contrast, presents a much more compelling picture: the Jedi might not trust Palpatine, but they're also worried that this Darth Sidious person mentioned by Dooku might have Palpatine, and the whole Senate, under his control, and might cause legitimate harm to Palpatine if he [Palpatine] is actually innocent.

    As far as the deleted scenes go, it sounds like the final film may have been somewhere close to 3 hours if everything had been included. I think it would have been the better for it, personally, if the inclusion of those scenes meant a more cohesive narrative.
     
    #57 tm0910196, Sep 15, 2016
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  18. GingerByte

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    Yeah, I've always wanted to see some of the extended Jedi discussion scenes, as they were filmed, sounded interesting and made the Jedi seem less stupid.
     
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Wait a second...Lucas named his own SON, "Titi Jukassa?!
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2016 ---
    A true director's cut for that movie would have only made it that much better .
     
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  20. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    From Wookieepedia:
    "Behind the scenes:
    Zett Jukassa was played by Jett Lucas, son of George Lucas. When naming the character, many possibilities were discussed, including Titi Jukassa, Tado Jukassa, and Tado. Eventually a tuckerization of the name Lucas was created: Jukassa, and Jett's name was simply modified to Zett."
     
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