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Rey and Kylo's force connection.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by skysamfreeman, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. skysamfreeman

    skysamfreeman Rebelscum

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    The whole theory of Rey's parents has seemingly been thrown out the window. Kylo tells her that her parents are nobody and she agrees. Here's something that I don't get though. How would she think her parents were "nobody" and not know them? She was about 6 or 7 when she was left on Jakku. That's enough time to at least know who your parents are. So was her mind wiped and she can't remember? I don't buy what Kylo is saying. Now, for the force connection that Rey and Kylo have. I find it VERY interesting that right after you get that bit of Luke connecting with Leia through the force, Kylo and Rey have another force connection moment. Now that could be misleading, but it seems like they're setting up a twin (or at least sibling) force connection of sorts. That's what I got out of it. I haven't really seen this talked about much but the timing of those events in the film really has me wondering. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    If I remember right, Rey was 5 when she was sold by her human garbage parents. Of course she remembers them, but she remembers them wrong. Most young children worship their parents, so naturally, since Rey lost hers at a young age, they stayed in her mind as "holy". And she pretty much HAD TO see them that way, because the hope that they'd back eventually was what kept her strong all those years. And she probably realized that when Kylo told her what happened.
    The force connection was probably created during the interrogation or in the forest on Starkiller. Snoke said that he was the one who created it, but he obviously lied, since it still existed after his death. Another possibility is that it always existed, by the will of the force itself, and the interrogation/whatever happened in the forest "triggered" it.
     
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  3. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Rebel Official

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    As others have said, Rey was extremely young when her parents left her, and most likely they were still imprinted on her as being great people, despite their flaws. Their betrayal was extremely traumatic, to the point that Rey developed a mental block, and began to delude herself that they did it for a reason beyond their own selfish means. She had to convince herself that her life had purpose beyond that of a junker, even if that purpose was based on a lie she was telling herself. However, deep down she knew the truth, the horrible truth she didn't want to face, the truth she spent years ignoring.
     
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  4. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    I'm with you on this, @skysamfreeman . The Force connection is very unique, and heretofore only seen with Skywalker family members, although the plot device of having Snoke say he created it makes it easier to wiggle around that fact. I don't like it when they mess around with canon that way, but they do. This may be one of those things where it doesn't make sense, and we should just believe what we are being told by Snoke.

    Having said that, those two do have some kind of link. Daisy's and Adam's acting was superb, and they made the characters seem far closer to me than even Luke and Leia did in the OT. I don't know what their connection is but there definitely is one, beyond the two of them being gifted with the Force. It's really eerie, and I loved it!
     
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  5. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    It'd be more interesting if it wasn't entirely a fabrication of Snoke's, basically making all the ground gained in those scenes entirely pointless.
     
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  6. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    It depends on what is meant by "the ground gained". There are actually two important considerations here. The first one, that it could happen at all, is what might be a pointless development. That they're not really able to connect spontaneously so it doesn't mean anything, no special powers or special meaning to it. Of course, Snoke could be lying about that. He doesn't seem that powerful to me, but maybe he did it.

    The second consideration is what happened as a result of that connection. Those things have happened and have real meaning. It's not only the mind connection that makes them seem close, it's what happened in the connection. I think that is at least as important as the fact the link occurred, and is not negated by the possibility that it might have been a "fake" link.
     
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  7. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Rey shutting the door on him ultimately resolved that and the entire conflict went nowhere. For a film that is lauded for its experimentation with ideas of morality, it sure does seem to have both the good guys and the bad guys put cleanly into two separate camps. This part of the film is yet another example of that.
     
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  8. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    I don't think for one minute that that is the last time they are going to come together mentally. She's rightfully angry, but won't be forever- he'll get to her eventually. I agree there should have been more pull to the dark side with Rey, but I guess the moral highwire act is going to be Kylo's.

    In fact, I would say that he'll be the focus of the third movie. As you said, Rey is clearly the good guy- she triumphed over her fleeting moment of temptation. If they focus on her it's going to be boring. The real story is what happens to Kylo. I'm also one of those people who believe SW revolves around the Skywalker family. If Rey isn't one, then the main protagonist going forward has got to be Kylo.

    One last thing I forgot to mention- I think Kylo has always known who Rey is. In the TFA book there's a line where he says to Rey, "It's you!" And in the movie, when the FO officer says BB8 ran off with a girl, he says "What girl?" He is not at all surprised that there's a girl with BB8, which he should be. He just wants to know which one- because there is one in particular that he's always been worried about.

    Yes, this connection is more than just what Snoke wants us to believe, I think.
     
    #8 HAL'sgal, Dec 17, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  9. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Rather than wishing it away, might be a good idea to consider why we had that whole plot that "went nowhere." It was a huge part of TLJ. What are the implications? What will the future conflict be--can it really be as simple as good v. bad, or are there nuances to it? What does it mean for the direction of the Force/Jedi/Dark siders in the future? What impact did the collapse of the relationship in TLJ have on the characters of both Rey and Ben?

    When Rey and Ben touch hands on Acht-To, the Force theme plays. Does that mean anything or is it just a John Williams throwaway? After Snoke dies, the Force connection still exists as Ben kneels and sees Rey close the door. Was Snoke in charge of the connection, was he just dialing the Skype calls, or was he flat-out lying about everything?
     
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  10. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Ben ended up taking power for himself and doubled down on committing mass murder on a staggering scale, treason, kidnapping, destroying Luke's order and shattering the Republic. He doesn't regret a damn thing. All it means is that Rey's the new Jedi and that he's the primary antagonist and nothing of any interest has occurred. The past 4 and a half hours of this trilogy feel like a massive waste of time because it felt more interested in stringing the audience along with empty meta narrative and pretentiously believing as if its pioneering anything rather than actually being a compelling story. There isn't a whole lot to even care about at this point as many of the sequel trilogy's elements are still underwritten, poorly written or just plain predicable.
     
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  11. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I'm still not sold on the connection being completely as a result of Snoke's own manipulation, nor am I completely sold on the idea that Rey is a nobody.

    For starters, when Luke and Leia briefly share a telepathic connection in The Last Jedi, it is immediately followed by one of Rey and Kylo Ren's. This could be misdirection or be an implication that what we are told later on is not completely true. After Snoke is dead, Kylo Ren and Rey again share a connection when she helps what is left of the Resistance escape on the Falcon. This leads me to believe that their bond was not Snoke's doing, and may actually be because they are siblings.

    This brings me to my next point. Yes, I heard what Kylo told Rey about her parents. I see this as going one of two ways. If what we got was the truth, Rey is most likely how the Skywalker saga ends. With Luke gone (and Leia presumably dead in Episode IX), this only leaves Ben, who is pretty much irredeemable by the end of this film. If he dies, the Skywalker bloodline dies with him. Meanwhile, Rey embodies the most important qualities of Han, Luke, and Leia, thus allowing a new generation of heroes to rise, regardless of their bloodline. (It will also allow the Skywalker saga to finally come to a close.)

    However, if Rey and Kylo Ren are actually siblings, it not only explains their connection, but also allows Kylo to be redeemed in Episode IX. Considering his connection with Leia prevented him from killing his own mother earlier on in the film, I think Leia was intended to be the only character capable of redeeming him (hence her importance in Episode IX, which would've been further fueled by her being Rey's mother as well). Rey and Leia have some sort of weird, unexplained connection in both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi that is pretty much ignored, sans brief scenes at the end of both films. The fact that he lied to Rey and she believed him would also emphasize his immense power and just how evil he is. When she asks to be shown her parents in the cave, she's completely alone, so I don't know why she wouldn't be honest with herself in that moment. That scene implied she didn't know who they were at all, but at 5 years old, surely she was old enough to know what they looked like. Because of that, I still think it's plausible that Rey is a Solo, and that it could have some significance in the film.

    Those are just some of my thoughts, though! I could be way off!
     
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  12. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    We may be the last two people in fandom who believe that, but I'm with you!
     
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  13. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    OK, Now I can see why you came to your earlier conclusion.
     
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  14. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    It does seem kind of anticlimactic, right? Especially given all the critical buzz it received prior?
     
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  15. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    Lol. Luke Walked in on them playing doctor.
     
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  16. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    No, I don’t agree, I just see where you’re coming from. :)
     
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  17. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Fair enough.
     
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  18. Dra---

    Dra--- Rebelscum

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    How would we react if we had a dim memory that our parents were losers who abandoned us, even sold us, for drinking money? That's such a painful truth most people would deny it on some level, even repress it and invent a better story in their heads that their parents are coming back for them. Even typing this makes me sad for someone like Rey.

    The connection between Rey and Ben seems to have been constructed by Snoke, but that connection appears to remain after his death. This should lead to some interesting dialogues in E9.

    I predict Kylo will become such a monster that he or Rey will cut their connection off, if possible.
     
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  19. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I mean, I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, nor am I saying it needs to, but I don't think it's impossible. If anything, it could further drive home the point that Kylo Ren is REALLY evil, and it would be different from the Luke/Vader reveal in The Empire Strikes Back because people didn't know if that was a lie or not. This time, maybe it will be a lie.

    Again, I'm not saying that's for certain, but I'm not ruling it out because it would explain A LOT.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---
    I agree with this. However, I'm still not sold that this is the true identity of Rey's parentage. If they were really so broke that they sold their own child for drinking money, why did they seem to fly away on some fancy spacecraft, only to eventually die on Jakku anyways? And why does Rey ask to see her parents in the cave if she knows who they are (at least what they look like)?
     
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  20. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I don’t think Snoke said he created the connnection between Rey and Kylo, but he said he manipulated what they were seeing of the future during the connection. The part where Rey saw Kylo turning back good and Kylo seeing Rey turning bad with him. This was done as a way to manipulate them meeting so he could get Rey.

    I’ll have to pay closer attention on Tuesday when I go back to see it but I’m pretty sure that was what happened.

    As for area and her parents she blocked out the traumatic past. It can happen in real life. My wife went to college with a girl who got pregnant her senior year shortly after getting engaged. She went in complete denial about it and nobody knew she was pregnant, including her husband, until she went into labor the morning of there wedding
     
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