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SPECULATION REY: "I'm no one." Odysseus said the same thing to the Cyclops Polyphemus in the ODYSSEY

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by WeWhoSurvived, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Brilliant comment.

    For everyone else, the phrase "Nothing new under the sun" is taken from Solomon speaking in Ecclesiastes 1:4-11, which is actually quite poetic (I recognize it as such at face value even though I'm not religious at all). I highlighted parts significant to TFA:

    4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

    5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

    6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

    7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

    8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

    9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

    10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

    11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

    Interpretation: History repeats itself, from one generation to another.

    "The world is full of inquisitors and heretics, liars and those lied to, terrorists and the terrorized. There is still someone dying at Thermopylae, someone drinking a glass of hemlock, someone crossing the Rubicon, someone drawing up a proscription list." -Paul Wilson
    But is the future set? Not necessarily.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -George Santayana
    Note that the phrase "Nothing new under the sun," while similar, probably isn't a reference to Sting's 1987 album "Nothing Like the Sun," referencing Shakespeare's Sonnet #130 ("My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun").

    However, the Starkiller weapon threatens to remove the sun or suns. Could this cast a shadow over the biblical reference? I mean, the Bible isn't canon anyway, and its stories were written...

    17ffadqjxa3szjpg.jpg
     
    #81 WeWhoSurvived, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
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  2. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Or as I recently heard someone put it "history: same characters, different costumes."

    On a side note, I thought readers of this thread who, like me, enjoy a good analysis might be interested in the best criticism of this reductionist pastime I have encountered. In the foreword of a book I'm reading was a quote from William Wordsworth:

    "Our meddling intellect
    Misshapes the beauteous forms of things -
    We murder to dissect."

    Now I love a good over-analysis as much as the next guy (why I'm here;)) but who can deny such an apt criticism - especially one as eloquent as that!
     
    #82 Moral Hazard, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
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  3. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Love it.

    Wordsworth is the guy who wrote:


    And I agree. Paralysis of analysis should be avoided. Analysis—like art—should reveal, illuminate, inspire and propel. But there are so many facets on this diamond. So many ways it can be cut. Can't wait to see which cut JJ/LK/KK delivers.

    I freaking love this Cantina.
     
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  4. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Speaking of one-eyed cyclops that got this thread started...

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Dude. So when I looked at these this morning the only thing I noticed was how their weapons are vertical. Haha. One eye is right.
     
  6. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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  7. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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  8. Dinster

    Dinster Rebelscum

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    Maybe she's just a fan of spaghetti westerns

    nobdy.jpg
     
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  9. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    And the name of that film was inspired by Homer's Odyssey, too. :p
     
  10. ChewiesDog

    ChewiesDog Clone Commander

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    Oh Brother Where Art Thou was an adaptation of the Odyssey. It's one of the most influential works of art in human history.
     
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  11. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    I have to point out a very, very interesting article on StarWars.com devoted to the symbolism of the cave scene in TESB and its parallels to Homer's Odyssey.
    http://www.starwars.com/news/studying-skywalkers-figuratively-exploring-the-dagobah-cave

    So the Odyssey was definitely sourced for the OT. I'm still waiting for confirmation if it is in the ST...I haven't seen the film yet. I'll actually see it in 1 hour. But I've certainly exposed myself to some leaks. I have no problem with this. And I know Rey will have some cave-like scenes. I'm looking forward to seeing it in the scope of the entire picture for context. There's gotta be similarities with the Dagobah cave scene. And differences, sure. But there are also several other scenes with caves, including one of the penultimate scenes, the massive cave inside Starkiller base.

    And some other thoughts before I see the film:
    • Regarding Rey as "No one" ... Kylo also says "No one will stand in our way." It would be mind-blowing if her name was Noh-Wan in the same vein as Obi-Wan, as I've speculated earlier. If she's not Luke's daughter, perhaps she's Obi-Wan's granddaughter. Or perhaps she really isn't related to anyone. Another virgin birth would be quite strange. Weird. But I suspect her common name "Rey" has some attached significance beyond just referencing light and photons, especially since it shares the common root "re" with Ren. I've explored the root "re" in my Ovid's Metamorphoses link with TFA. It certainly looks like Rey will be the film's hero, if not the hero of the entire trilogy. And yes, heroes can be female.
    • Supreme Leader Snoke appears to be one-eyed from leaks, or at least possessed of at least one good eye, and giant, like the Cyclops Polyphemus. At least his size is artificially enlarged to be gigantic by hologram for effect. I hope to get a much better view in the theater, even though I'm seeing it in 3D and will have my own lenses (and biases). I'm trying to stay as objective as possible. A teachable student of JJ.
    • No idea if Phasma cloaks and therefore fits into the Athena role or with invisibility gifted by the Helmet of Hades. Not necessarily hoping for confirmation either. Whatever they want to do.
    • No idea if we get to see the Knights of Ren and any other mythical / biblical correlations, such as multiple Cylopes, Knights of the Round Table, Dark Knights, Dark Angels, Cherubim and Flaming Swords, Tree of Life / Tree of Good and Evil, blah blah. What's most important to me is seeing sources of inspiration of the film and not projecting what I want or other people want onto it. Like what elements are really there? If so, do these elements actually serve the story or not?
     
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