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Rey is more powerful than the Chosen One, his offspring, any dark side user, everyone

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by YubNubBub, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Good lord, she lifts a couple rocks and everyone loses their freaking minds.
     
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  2. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    When I said easily explained, I meant in comparison to how mind tricks are shown in previous films. You see, some of us actually acknowledge the fact that there were 6 Star Wars films prior to the ST.

    You can like it as much as you want, but you can't defend it as being easily explained by saying stuff like "she's just a fast learner". No, that's really not how it works.
     
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  3. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    I agree with you. I was mocking the go to explanation people use for Rey using the mind trick
     
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  4. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Awesome. Sarcasm is hard to get these days, since so many defenders of Rey talk just like that in an actual serious way.
     
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  5. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    that is the weakest excuse. you just got called out and now you're back tracking.

    if Luke and Anakin were meant to be everyman characters then why are people so up in arms about Rey being more powerful than them?
     
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  6. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    It's not an excuse, now you're really scraping the bottom. While it's true that Voldemort also needed training to gain more knowledge about certain things (such as Horcruxes), I made a point after that in order to not skew the discussion into a comparison between hero and villain.

    Anyone who understands the basic concepts of writing stories understands that a classic story will always have the villain being stronger than the hero - but in the end good will triumph through any means of list, hope, love, hard work or whatever that's been part of human stories since the beginning of time.

    To answer your second question, the answer is in your sentence..... Because Luke and Anakin ARE everyman characters.
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Kylo is shown to have more force knowledge than Rey. You were originally talking about what made sense anyway - not hero/villain narratives.
     
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  8. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    So are they equals or is he stronger?
     
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  9. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    This is factually not true. While Anakin is the slave, he is also a Chosen One, created by the Force, with midichlorian count no one has seen before. Compared to him, even Yoda is an everyman character. Luke might be a farm boy, but he is Chosen One's son. They are the opposite of everyman characters.

    Just wanted to say that. Continue.
     
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  10. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Which is precisely why I said that I didn't want the discussion to skew into this territory, but you and Pilktington did so what can I say?

    Kylo wasn't the big baddie in TFA.
     
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  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yep, I always wonder when the heroic everyman billionaire Lex Luthor will finally take down that all powerful Superman once and for all.
     
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  12. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Just watch that, I really don't feel like sitting here explaining what an everyman character is and why Yoda most definitely ISN'T. To even suggest that Yoda is an everyman character shows that oneself does not understand these archetypes and what they mean in storytelling.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---
    Superman is the worst example. It's not a coincidence that people call Rey Superman. Superman is usually used as an example when describing how to NOT create a everyman character.

    You're obviously being sarcastic though since you can't reverse the roles like that. But thumbs up for trying to be funny. :)
     
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  13. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    How are mind tricks shown? What does mind trick training look like? Is there like a book and a test? Do you have to practice upside down while balancing a Jedi Master on your foot? What did the OT show us about Jedi Mind tricks?

    Rey lines: "The Jedi were real!" "Luke Skywalker, I thought he was a myth?" Now here's the part where you have to use common sense. Ready? If she heard of Jedi and heard of Luke, she would have heard THE THINGS THEY CAN DO. Otherwise, they are just names and would not impress you. ITS THE THINGS JEDI COULD DO that impressed her, which is why she got wild eyed and excited. <----This is a fact. Call JJ and ask him.

    Now, she's told that SHE HAS THE SAME POWER INSIDE HER THAT THE JEDI HAVE. "I can't explain it, and you wouldn't believe it". <----apparently you guys still don't.

    Moving on...

    Here is what I would be thinking if I was locked in a chair after getting mind humped by some force guy that I just turned the tables on...
    "Holy crap! Maybe I can do those things? What do I have to lose? I'll try one of those mind tricks that I heard the Jedi could do. Maybe I'll get that trooper to unlock me. It will work, it has to work. Ok, Rey, concentrate "You will remove these restraints and leave this cell with the door open."
    Crap, it didn't work, concentrate Rey. "You will remove these restraints and leave this cell with the door open." Damn, I can do this I can do this...
    "You will remove these restraints and leave this cell with the door open." HOLY MOLY IT WORKED!!! "And you'll drop your weapon!"

    Damn, I wish I did this years ago on Unkar Plutt!!!!
     
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  14. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Sorry, but none of that explains anything. Lots of CAPS though.
     
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  15. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    The fact that you didn't even care to read my post and it's content does not warrant me watching that video.

    I never said that Yoda is everyman, I said that he might as well be compared to Anakin.
     
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  16. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Anakin is a fictional character, he doesn't think of Yoda in terms of storytelling archetypes. That's why I said that you were suggesting Yoda to be an everyman character in terms of how you as a viewer interpret Anakin.

    To go back to your first post: Being the Chosen One does not equal being all-powerful and know-it-all. It's not the abilities of a character that decides its role, it's their purpose and progression in the story. For example, Harry Potter is also the Chosen One but he has to work hard, too. Just like Anakin and Luke.

    I'd highly recommend anyone to read more about archetypes in storytelling, not just because of this discussion, but simply because its immensely interesting and lots of fun.
     
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  17. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Needs a non-female character to save her from another non-female character. So, OP, nope.
     
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  18. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Neither does being Rey. If TLJ proved anything, is that she knows nothing - literally - about the Force: she only parrots things she heard, and not just about the Force, but the Resistance as well. She is so naive, that is painful at times. And nothing she does in either TFA or TLJ makes her all powerful. She might be quicker on the uptake then some previous examples, but mainly because she believes everything (like I said, naive), not because she is more powerful. Anakin, even as padawan, would crush her, let alone when he became full Jedi.
     
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  19. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

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    It's pretty damn sad that this is Disney's version of girl power. If the idiots writing this garbage have her fall in love with Scum Ren then she'll truly be the worst "strong powerful female" ever in Star Wars. As for her powers, she's a Mary Sue. Period. In Episode 9, she could fly through space like Leia Poppins and take out the entire First Order with the force and people would still defend her, I guarantee it. I can hear it now, "Well, uh, she read all the original Jedi books and that's why she can do that, it makes total sense, ACCEPT IT!!"
     
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  20. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    If she is so naive, how come she always makes the right decision and solves every problem. She even makes the right decision for Luke. The point I made in my previous posts was that characters like Luke, Anakin, Harry, and so on has to work really hard to get where they are, whereas Rey doesn't need to work hard. She worked hard as a junk dealer, yes, but not as a Force trainer.

    I went into detail about the silliness of "believing" in my first post in this thread on page 1, and explained why it doesn't make sense.
     
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