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Rey is more powerful than the Chosen One, his offspring, any dark side user, everyone

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by YubNubBub, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    [​IMG]

    People really cannot understand the significance of how this Trilogy could have went....

    They threw out his story treatments. They kept his very basic ideas, but then they added their own spin. They didn't build of the architecture he set before them.

    Edit: I updated my OP, with 2 edits. These are rebuttals to the most common arguements to cite Rey's powers fit within lore. Noticeably, fuzzy details and novice powers. The OP is much more impactful now.

    Edit2: Several pages ago people were making fun of my comment about "broom boy". So now it is my turn:

    Do you realize the significance of having this child use the force to grab a broom?

    No?

    Well allow me to explain. You see, it is negating any kind of concentration/training requirements. It is basically the new rule - I can feel the force and use it, I DON'T NEED TRAINED.

    So yes, broom boy was significant.

    "My greatest fear is they will turn the Force into Goobledegook" - George Lucas

    Here we go, unraveling 1-6. Let's see you keep blindly defending that though....
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2018 ---
    So come on... someone step up and "defend" broom boy and "miraculous" Rey......

    (lightsaber)
     
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  2. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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  3. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    A load of bullocks.... she doesn't have the experience to do what she does... I've already covered all this... you can have knowledge and not the experience.... it also slaps the face of lore from 1-6.

    Your defending a character who upsurps Anakin, Luke, all of them....

    So your telling me with her mastery of telekinesis as seen with the boulders Snoke would've been able to throw her around like that?

    Please! Get out of here. Shoo!
     
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  4. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Sensitive

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    She wasn't facing the dark side on Crait.
     
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  5. The Lurker

    The Lurker Rebel Trooper

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    I think that you are on a personal crusade to try to convince people that these new movies are evil and should be wiped from canon. The problem is you are p***ing in the wind. Fans will either agree with you or they'll post a rebuttal that you simply won't accept. To me, this signifies an unwillingness to compromise in discussion and therefore there's no point in even trying to debate.

    It's great that you're so passionate about SW, as we all are, but sometimes you have to take a step back and realise that your opinion good or bad really isn't going to make a difference in the long run. Venting in forums can be a good release for those negative energies, but you won't find much satisfaction if you can't accept other points of view. Just my 2p. :)
     
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  6. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    Your confused. You obviously never read any of my former posts......

    Knowledge doesn't equal experience. She should have died to Kylo in TFA.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2018 ---
    A bad 2 cents because Im dealing in facts here, not on a personal crusade.

    The personal crusade is negating Episodes 1-6 via cheapening the force.

    Whats worse is people defend Disney as if omnipotent and incapable of mistakes, that seems like a hypocritical one way street here.

    (lightsaber)
     
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  7. The Lurker

    The Lurker Rebel Trooper

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    These are not facts, but opinions. You feel that the force is cheapened, others appreciate the expansion of lore. Both opinions are valid and cam be backed up by loose evidence.

    Disney isn't perfect, but some of us are just happy to see it back on the big screens again.
     
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  8. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Sensitive

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    I bet most of the people answering you still have issues with the films as films. There are some boring parts and some shifts in tone and spacing. There some trippy humor and some contrivances that can be eye rolling.

    But the Force isn't some dogmatic thing to be burdened with limitations everywhere and require rules like a computer (a....targeting computer......)

    The Jedi had dogma and teachings...and that's all we got from Ep. 1-6....and that their dogma and teachings largely failed. That's straight from the Skywalker's mouth. So whatever we get from the Jedi in 6 episodes should be questioned and open to re-definiton. That's what TLJ is actually about.

    One can drone on and on about relative power levels or abilities, but there's no dogma related to that other than - yeah, Anakin was powerful and Yoda expected Luke to be able to do a lot more things than what he was able to do. That's right there in the films.

    The prequels add the midichlorian thing and hint that the Force moves to balance. What's balance? Who knows? The Jedi don't even contemplate it and seem to shrug at it. It remains undefined unless the viewer puts some stone cold definition on it, to which most of this thread would not want to and would rather allow the story to move forward without strict rules.

    Rey is awesome at this Force stuff. Neither Yoda nor Luke seem the least bit concerned about why or what's causing it. Luke's seen it before. Yoda near expects it and celebrates it. If the viewer wants to contradict those two massive characters in the SW saga...well, lol, go ahead.
     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I've discussed this at length on other threads, but the Force isn't about training, it's about discipline and concentration. That was one of the flaws of the Jedi order, its weird dogmatism.

    We're not saying that just anyone can pull a broom like that, but well... it'd not like we don't already have child prodigies in the world as is. Some stem from practice, some from natural gifts. To try to say that one practice is better for any one particular person is simply something that cannot be done.

    For instance, I've been involved with looking at various pedagogical approaches to education. Frankly kids learn differently, and there is not "best" way to teach. Some kids are much, much quicker learners than others, and some are simply extremely gifted with natural intelligence. To say "it took some of the other Jedi longer to life a broom" is like saying "Why is my child not the best at math in the class?". Frankly, there's always a bigger fish. ;)

    One thing we do know (and was pointed out in previous threads) is that Luke gets in his own head a lot. For something that requires concentration, this is obviously going to be a big obstacle, right?
     
    #149 cawatrooper, Jan 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  10. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    It all comes down to this....

    If you don't like Rey or Luke's depiction, or TLJ for various reasons, if you don't like that it's become way more fairy tale than it was in the OT and it bothers you to the point you're ticked off, then don't support the ST. Don't buy toys, don't buy the movies ect... It doesn't make you less (or more) of a SW fan if you don't like the direction Disney is taking it.

    If you do like Rey and Luke and most everything in TLJ and you love the fairy tale than support it by buying the movies, the toys, multiple tickets to view the same movie on the big screen ect... it doesn't make you more (or less) of a SW fan if you like it.

    Nor will anyone be more or less of a SW fan if they dislike future trilogies.

    At some point, SW might distance itself enough from Sci-fi to permanently lose some fans, but I don't think so.

    Personally I think there's enough SW to go around and cover what most all the fans want. We might not be able to get it in every episode or trilogy, but I'd say there's probably a significant portion of that 70% who'll support a SW movie regardless if it goes more sciency or not. So if the next trilogy focuses more on making things make sense and exposition, they might lose a totally different 30% than they lost on this trilogy... and that's okay.

    Maybe GL intended it to be a fairy tale in space, but that doesn't mean he intended what Disney is doing with it either. At this point, it's no longer his baby, it's Disney's and it's the fans. Truly, SW is at least partially owned by us fans and the money we spend (or don't spend) to show them how much we love or hate what they're doing.
     
    #150 Sparafucile, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2018
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  11. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    The extent to which you are such an obvious troll, continues to be baffling.

    Please stop feeding this.
     
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  12. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    Looks like my attempt to reach common ground with the OP through a love for KOTOR was ignored.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I would almost regard her as the ultimate Mary Sue if it weren't for the fact that she seemed incapable of dealing with Snoke.:rolleyes:
     
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  14. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    You see? These are good points.

    I've been accused of trolling only for speaking what I thought was right.

    We can use Canon to backup your claims:

    "I always was a slow learner." - Anakin

    A self admission. So we can assume Luke would be a slow learner as well due to the likelihood from trait inheritance.

    So then we can assume we have force users who are quick learners, such as Rey. She is our very first example of a "fast learner".

    However, what is the exact extent to her power? Does is rival Lukes for example, or Anakin?

    Now I do have a problem with "self teaching" so as long as Disney does not stray into that. But have they alreqdy? For the lore has been steup for a master, and an apprentice.

    So there you have it, you won with a little bit of reason.

    I actually wrote the above reply with your reply in mind as well.
     
    #154 YubNubBub, Jan 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    There's no real way to compare Rey, Kylo, or Snoke to Anakin or Luke because ST inflated the power of the Force as an energy - we're in some form of Force maximum.

    Luke shut himself off from the Force and the only Force use we see him do is way over the top and that could be because it's Luke, or it could be because it's Luke on Force maximum.

    We don't know the exchange rate between BFM and AFM (before/after force maximum), so we have no idea what Anakin would be like if he popped in to the AFM timeline.

    For all we know, Rey has a hundreth the power of Anakin, but due to being in AFM time, she seems way off the charts. No clue.

    Luke sure looked surprised.

    Cheers,
    Jayson :)
     
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  16. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    Just be weary of anything Luke says in TLJ.

    It's a proven fact:
    [​IMG]
    "Fat people always lie."
     
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  17. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I wouldn’t put too much stock in the “slow learner” dialog to gauge Anakin. He was being sarcastic to Dooku.
    Dooku says “brave of you boy, but I would have thought you had learned your lesson”
    Anakin “I am a slow learner”

    That being said, there are many examples of force sensitive people using the force unknowingly. In Rebels, Ezra has been using the force his whole life without knowing. It’s not until Kaanan discovers him that he begins honing his skills. The funny thing is, him. getting his lessons right seemed harder than him just freely using the force naturally. Anakin did it with Pod racing. His instincts just kicked in. Broom Boi just reaches for a broom and it comes to him. I think since the PT we’ve seen that force users don’t necessarily need to train to use their power, just to control it better and use it to their potential.
     
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  18. SW Rogue Juan

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    After going through some Reylo videos, hearing about Daisy Ridley being moved by Trevorrow's pitch I'm beginning to wonder if Reylo is being set up to be a messianic hero? If this saga is still in essence about the Skywalker family, then Ben Solo is not totally lost. The only conceivable way that can occur is through Rey. Rey is his redeemer, one that will ultimately return him to the light.

    I question the love story angle at least in a romantic sense because it's too messy at this point and could be problematic pr wise. It becomes Rey trying to save the bad boy which has been done to death in so many teen-romance films that I don't think they'll go that direction.

    I see her in the next movie as an evangelist of a new Jedi order who tells the tail of a great hero Luke Skywalker and his great sacrifice to maintain that small light that will eventually grow to an opposition that will overcome the First Order.

    If you think of her as this character who is in essence a symbol of hope and belief, and will ultimately be the savior of the galaxy through sacrifice then I think her OP status could be excusable. May be this trilogy was ultimately about Ben/Kylo all along?
     
    #158 SW Rogue Juan, Jan 11, 2018
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  19. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    One more time, in TLJ Rey isn't a Mary Sue, and this is why:

    1. Rey needs a male character (Kylo and Luke) to "show me my place in all this"
    2. Rey's knowledge about the Force is ridiculed on several occassions by male characters (Luke, three times)
    3. Rey needs knowledge digressed by a male authority to save the resistance (rock moving skills)
    4. Rey foolishly neglects to heed the warnings of a male character with destructive consequences (Rey goes after Ben, against the advice of Luke)
    5. Rey's powers are shown to be insignificant in comparison to another male character (Snoke), she's depicted as trapped and enthralled and the powerful male character literally reads her mind. She has lost all agency.
    6. Rey needs a male protector to save her from the overwhelming power of another male character (Kylo kills Snoke, saves Rey)
    7. Rey isn't immediately liked by all the male characters in the narrative (most prominently Luke, and in extension Snoke who is prepared to cast her aside)
    8. Rey is depicted as aknowledging that something on which she had authoritative skill and knowledge in the previous film is done better by a male character in the next one(Rey does not fly the Falcon (Chewie), but takes quite literally the secondary gunner's position)
    9. Rey cries on mutliple times and shows inherent emotional weakness. She is confused and is even forced by a male other to aknowledge a 'truth' about herself ("you know who your parents are, say it")
    10. Rey aknowledges sexual tension in a scene with a male character (Kylo's shirtless scene: "[looks away] don't you have a gown or something")

    There you go. Use it where- and whenever you can. I can do the same thing for TFA, where it is just as obvious that Rey isn't a Mary Sue.
     
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  20. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I find your choice in headgear disturbing, actually I think I never used any headgear in kotor 1 or 2 since they were all horrible.
     
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