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Rey really should have killed Chewie

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by HAL'sgal, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel General

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    I'm out on killing Chewbacca, Artoo, Threepio, or the Falcon.

    Just not things I need or want to establish some artificial stakes.
     
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  2. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    I work in a field where a great many of us have almost accidentally killed people- what it teaches (after you have a chance to calm down) is to be significantly more careful in the future, but it most likely it won't make you question your own professional identity-unless it actually happens.

    And also, from an audience perspective,"resurrecting" Chewie removed some depth she might have gained, because she didn't have to struggle with that. As for the haters, this trilogy has so many of them I'm not sure the powers that be care any more.

    Okay, I'd be the weepy one center-right. ;)

    Right! That's where it would have actually been an improvement on ROTJ. I mean, no one seriously thought Luke would go to the Dark Side- at the worst, we just all thought he'd get killed in the process of resisting it. Palpatine was a more powerful Sith than Vader, and had lots of practice turning Jedi- it stands to reason that he'd have more of an effect on Rey than Vader did on Luke. The stakes were higher, or they could have been, anyway.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 1, 2020 ---
    It's all artificial.
    The only way I would think it wasn't was if I knew the ending, which I did not.
    Nor did most of the audience.
     
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  3. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    I disagree.

    7 and 8 already had too much of, “Let’s bring back all your beloved characters! (...and kill them).” I like that they didn’t do this in 9 (except Leia, but that was necessary and dignified).
     
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  4. iostream

    iostream Rebelscum

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    Yeah but in your field did you ever have visions of yourself with white eyes sitting on the throne of the Sith prior to thinking you just killed one of your best friends with force lightning because you couldn't control your anger while the fate of the galaxy crushes down on you? I think if we look at the larger picture of what Rey is fearing (herself), then thinking she killed Chewie is going to have just as much impact. And, again, in her mind she did kill Chewie. So there is a span of time where Chewie dying at her hands is reality. And in that span of time it "actually happened" relative to any professional identity-questioning she would do during that span of time.

    So the accidental death will have an impact as though it actually happened. Personally, I don't see much significant difference to identity-questioning between the statement:

    I saw myself on the Sith throne and Chewie died because I couldn't control my nature
    I saw myself on the Sith throne and Chewie would've died because I couldn't control my nature

    especially given the span of time in which the first statement is true, relative to Rey's knowledge. And in the end, Rey went to exile herself and throw away the saber. So she's pretty much rock bottom of the questioning of personal identity with or without Chewie dying.

    You're forgetting that there is a span of time in which she believed Chewie was dead. So there is going to be that struggle during that span of time, and I doubt that whatever that struggle did to her psyche is suddenly going to disappear when she finds out Chewie survived - not because of her identity - but because, luckily, there was a second transport.

    I'm not sure, either. And I would hope they only cared about writing the best story they could, regardless of opinions. BUT, if we don't have to kill Chewie, would you really want to roll those dice and kill him at the hand of your protagonist if you don't have to?

    I guess it could work writing it that way, but I don't think it really adds much and in contrast it does put a huge black cloud over the end scene. I personally would've hated that. Not saying it wouldn't be "good" just that I would have hated having the saga end with Rey finally gaining happiness, looking into the sunset - with a big black cloud overhead.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I think the time between the audience knowing Chewie was still alive and his "death" needed to be longer. It's ineffective as is.
     
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  6. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Of course they weren't going to kill Chewbacca in such a way, but it sure would've been a risky move, and I'd applaud them for it.
    Instead I was sitting there waiting for Chewbacca to be revealed to still be alive, because it being a cop-out was entirely predictable, especially since Abrams had already done this with Poe in TFA.
     
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  7. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Agree, although I think the one with Poe was different, we merely knew Poe at this point and no one was actually sad when Poe was gone. And Imo JJ could have sold Chewie's death better to us by taking the time to let it sink in and not have Rey in the very next sequence be all normal again than instead of her questioning her powers and actions.
     
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  8. LagothZanta

    LagothZanta Rebel Trooper

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    I thought Chewie's "death" worked fine. It served the intended purpose of horrifying Rey and making her question who she is. The fact that Chewie was still alive didn't negate that at all. She still knew she acted out of anger and her actions COULD have killed him, if she hadn't just been extremely lucky. And so I'm not sure that actually killing him would have added anything to the movie, other than just making it unnecessarily grim. It's like if a drunk person thinks he/she drove over a child, it's still going to have a huge impact on that person, even if it turns out that the "child" was just a toy left on the driveway.
     
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  9. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    That's a good point. I'd forgotten about that business with Poe. I guess I really did believe that Rey had killed Chewie, but when he reappeared my reaction was then the same as yours. A cop-out.
    No. The impact of a really adverse outcome or death is not immediate. It takes weeks to months to process it, sometimes culminating in the withdrawal of the professional from the field entirely. This is what happened to Luke.

    Rey didn't go through that at all. She barely had time to process anything as she ran from crisis to crisis. Then poof- Chewie was alive. No harm done.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Yep.
    If they wait to show us proof of life on Chewie just until they're on the ship, it ceases being a cop out and becomes a triumphant moment we feel genuine relief and emotion in. But they waste no time patting the audience on the back saying, "See, he's fine" while expecting you to then care about the grief of the team. And obviously they have to actually take the time to let them feel.
     
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  11. iostream

    iostream Rebelscum

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    The "harm done" is in cementing the fact to Rey that she is a danger to those around her due to her own self. That is the psychological identity-questioning "harm done" in that scenario. The "harm" you're wanting to do to Rey doesn't even fit in the narrative. The point is that Rey is afraid of herself as was the theme of the film. It's why she runs away to Ahch-To. She saw a vision of herself sitting on the Sith throne. She almost killed Chewie because of her inability to control herself. When she "kills Chewie" it's a five-alarm siren warning her that she's dangerous even to those close to her. Chewie being alive has zero ramifications on that fear of being "the danger" - Chewie's survival had nothing whatsoever to do with Rey's nature, it has to do with there being a second transport.

    As for the process being quick, that is also the point. It's the same as in ROTS where the protagonist is facing down an oncoming train with no time to breath. Destiny is coming at them quickly, how do they respond under the pressure. It's the rapid-fire crushing weight of it all. Rey is facing down: you're responsible for the fate of the galaxy; the Jedi aren't with you; here's a vision of you on the Sith throne; you're dangerous to those around you; you'll turn to the dark side; you're the offspring of the Sith! And so she's terrified of herself and removes herself from the table because of that fear.

    If Chewie actually died, that narrative motion doesn't change one bit. She still runs away. Luke still has to build her back up. She still has to face the fear of her own self. Your focus on Chewie's outcome is missing the forest for the tree - a tree that really doesn't even change "Rey is a danger to those around her" whether he's "lucky" enough to have escaped the danger because of a second transport or not.

    The one-and-only thing that changes if we plug your idea into the narrative flow is that there's a black cloud over the ending. That's it. This thing about stretching the narrative weeks, if not months, to process a death due to the fact that Rey is potentially dangerous to those around her (something she believes quite strongly without needing to take months to process a death) doesn't even fit into the narrative and works against it by alleviating the tremendous pressure contained in the urgency of it. That's why the narrative is operative under a countdown in the first place.
     
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  12. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Going into EP9, Han and Luke were dead and people even w/ AOL dial-up knew Carrie Fisher passed.
    Killing off the last beloved "original character" wouldn't have sat well with mostfans (especially one that reminds people of the family dog....and everyone loves the dog)

    Another reason is it keeps Chewie (The Falcon, R2 and C3PO) around for EPX and beyond
     
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  13. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    Actually they should have had Finn on the transport that got (not) destroyed instead of Chewy and use him to start a rebellion from inside the FO.
     
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  14. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
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    Or even better, both Chewie & Finn.
     
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  15. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    The FO probably would have shot Finn on sight ......same treatment they tried to give Finn once he was caught on Snoke's ship.
     
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