REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

Rey is gonna dump them both anyway.

 

I'm a reysky believer but for the sake of the discussion I'm not going to say anything about the possible /incest/
If you watch tfa it's really evident that Rey hates kylo, you can see it, he killed her father figure, entered her mind against her will and hurt the person she has a very strong bond to. Rey hates him so much that she tapped into the darkside, yeah I know snoke had something to do with it too but she had so much rage and anger, I would too tbh

Kylo does have somekind of connection tho, you can see it either way as romantic or fascination or ""force bond"" HE definately has a thing for her but she for him? Not in 1000 years.

Now lets look at Finn, he and Rey have great chemistry and friendship, a great ground for a romance. Some ppl may call finnrey """vanilla""" but guess what? Not every romance in Star Wars has to be this big ""epic"" story sorry reylos

And people saying Finnpoe is going to happen, no way, I for one would love it ,I'm bisexual myself, but it's not realistic, not yet. Just as unrealistic as the theory of Rey saving """"""Ben Solo"""""" and bringing him back and having solo kids

Btw if rey is the daughter of luke and marries finn (who hasnt got a last name) guess what last name the children will have

 

Haha, deal.

To be honest, I don't find it likely they'll end up together, either, and I can't say I want them to (though my wife and I were Rey and Kylo for Halloween this year, so I guess part of me has to cheer for that). But it's possible, I guess. I mean, we don't even know for sure if Ben will turn to the light, much less what would cause it. Gotta say, I love times like this when speculation abounds, but I wouldn't mind a few clues in the form of a teaser trailer soon...

 

Nope. I am not shading Finn. My point was to try to make you see that not all is black and white. I was repeating his story as it was presented in TFA. I am being objective about it. Am not making presumptions about him. His motivations were first selfish and cowardly, later it was Rey. Let's not make him noble when he is not. Just when he is. But he lost all his fights too. And didn't save anyone?

But you are being presumptious of Kylo Ren.
What opportunities did he have? What do we know of his downfall? Or his motives. How can you deem them worthy/unworthy then.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
There are no pure light or pure dark people. Yeah...i think Han Leia and Luke are good people...but i also think they were wrong about some things and made mistakes. We will see in 8 and 9. And Snoke is the big bad. But it doesn't follow that he cannot be right about some things as well.
That is the thing about perspective and POV. Bias.
Like people have it against Kylo.
Kylo is to blame for skb firing the same as any American is for Hiroshima. Or as much as Poe is for destroying skb (that was a planet too with people also. Villages of indigenous inhabitants, most probably. Or are we only counting certain planets and certain people as more worthy?)

It is hard to argue for or con guilt and responsibility if we do not have the whole story. And there is tons we don't know about kylo, imo, that is crucial to making judgements about him.

 

Thank you

I appreciate your input. I don't see the hate. I see her first being startled (takodana forest), then intrigued, vulnerable, defiant, superior (interrogation), hurt (killing of Han), antagonized (final fight), defiant again but reluctant to kill him (final move of final fight) and then perhaps worried about him when she turns away to look back before she boards the MF.
I agree with you that Rey tapped into her dark side when she fought dirty and kicked him then cut a beaten man down with excesive cruelty. But let us not dismiss the fact that Rey chose to tapp to her dark side, saying Kylo or Snoke made her do it is like excusing her behaviour. Doing 'bad' things is okay if you are a 'good' person? How can you be a 'good' person if you do 'bad' things?

The thing about Force Bonds is that they are a two-way thing? I think they force-bonded during interrogation when he entered her mind and she entered his mind using the Force. I would not go as far as to say that he is in love with her or even fascinated might be a too strong word. I do not think that he is "fascinated" with her on a physical level even if he did check her out (as she did him). I think he noticed and acknowledged her Force sensitivity/power and her lonelyness also to what I saw he responded when he described it to her. I think he felt compassion towards her cuz of all that cuz I feel he found she reflected many of the feelings he had as he was coming to terms with his Force Sensitivity. When he says
And Han Solo. You feel like he's the father you never had. He would've disappointed you. he speaks from experience. And I think they both felt a connection but he might be just a little bit more aware of the extent of it than she is. I look forward to see if this conjecture is true and how it will be pursued in 8 and 9.

I think this all boils down to who is the central character of ST. I personally do not believe that Rey is that. I think ST is the Rendemption story of Ben/Kylo. In that context it is the most logical that the "romance" of ST somehow involves him, a Skywalker like it was in PT and OT (lets not forget that Leia is a Skywalker). Doesn't have to be epic...but if it can, why shouldn't it be? I do not take my interpretation as the truth however, but atm I see more that supports that ST is Kylo's story, than Rey being the main character and a Skywalker.
Apropos FinnRey chemistry. I don't see it. I see friendship only. From both sides. Even in the end when he takes her in her arms after Chewie says that it was his idea to come for her. Or when Kylo shoves her into the tree and he then comes to check if she is alright. I do see concern. But no chemistry? I see more familiality there and in the way Finn touches Rey than in any of the interactions of Kylo and Rey where he NEVER touches her. Please do not take this as an argument for Reylo, cuz I am not delivering it with that intention. Simply stating my observations and providing a fact that there are many people that don't see that. And that doesn't mean we don't want vanilla or have our panties on fire or have horns and tails and pitchforks.
Plus...I really am not into spoilers but even I have heart that Finn has a love interest in 8? KMT? Is that a false rumor?

Now that chemistry I saw. Like from their first lines. Finn is unsure and scared about what they are about to do but Poe is to be his hero....
And Poe, seeing this is for real, smiles a hero's smile: We're gonna do this. Finn: (unsure but hopeful)... Yeah?
Now that was hot. As was running across the base just to finish in an embrace...with a lip bite.... that was such a great cliché lovers reunite moment...or a trope if you will
And yeah...nay for Rey saving Ben/Kylo...yuck...that would be f*cking vanilla.

When you say that about names....are you alluding that Leia's child/children are not Skywalkers? Cuz that would be a fallacy... in a lack of a stronger word. Leia was in so many things more of 'a Skywalker' than a whinny Luke was. Insinuating that she is not a 'real' Skywalker is offensive to her character and to her legacy. What makes a Skywalker, Skywalker, I wonder? His lastname? How he wields a ligtsaber or does mind tricks? If so then Kenobi is a Skywalker also.

Oh God don't be so cruel....Let the woman enjoy herself!!! physically, at least! other than fighting, I mean

That is just it. Even if you do not want to admit that to yourself fully, you recognize the reylo potential cuz their characters have undeniable chemistry on screen, cuz antagonistic love/sex is sexy, cuz they challenge each-other, cuz their interactions are exciting, and ofc a bad-boy-turned-good is a 'fetish' for a reason...

I personally do not see reylo if Ren is not redeemed. And I must emphasize again that none of the reyloers that call themselves that want a romance without rendemption. The only people who I have met who would 'want' that or who can even imagine that are the antis guys that scream how Kylo is a kitty cat (@LadyMusashi : kitty cat, not kitten ) and how he needs to be more evilishly evil without rendemption. (some of them incidentally have some bondage issues as well ). And if I am honest, and I am with you people here, I have to admit that at this moment, with Rey being such an underdevelopped character, and Kylo so f*cked up I do not see how the reylo romance can be a romance of two equals that accept and complete eachother, as I wish it to be. And the biggest allure of Reylo, right now for me is the audacity of it. I think. lol

I have no hate for Finn. And I try not ho have a bias against him. I have no reason to. I don't need to make him look bad so Kylo would look better. Kylo is a villain, so he is worse by default. So I honestly don't try to shade Finn. At least I think that is not what I am doing. I am calling it as I see it. And I would like to separate the Kylo's redemption discussion from Finn character dissection discussion, cuz I really do not think those are connected. Or comparable. But I will try to explain what I meant once more.
I did not call 'not wanting to kill people selfish and not wanting to return to a brainwashing military cult - cowardly'. I called him escaping the first order while lying to Poe first, Rey second, BB-8 third, Han fourth and taking a job with mercenaries to save his own skin selfish and cowardly. Cuz he did all that to save his own skin cuz he is affraid for his life? He did not do that for some noble motive of fighting against FO. He says it him self after Maz practically calls him a coward. You don't know the First Order like I do. They'll slaughter us. We all need to run. Otherwise he would join the Alliance before he lost Rey on Takodana. After that he joins the Alliance just to save her. So no longer completely selfish even if he is, at least partly, acting from personal guilt. But still his motive is not cuz he wants to join the fight against FO. Again he says that: I don't. I'm just here to get Rey. (after he has lied again to Alliance command, leia, Poe, Han etc that he knows how to disable the shields). I don't think he cares much about the fighting cuz I don't think he is much of a fighter to begin with. which is also why he looses all of them. It is important that he fought them, I agree. But he had not much alternative cuz he had no where to run, the only option was to fight. And he does get better at it every time. From the first fight with Rey when she tries to run away to his last with Kylo where he charges at him knowing that he will loose. I liked that a lot. That there is character development and the difference in motivation, reason for fighting. Plus, how can one be brave if he is not established to be afraid first? I hope to see more of him finding his confidence and strength in 8 and joining actively in the fight against FO. But right now he is just not a noble fighter against the dark opacity of the FO.

Privilege is not always a privilege. And being a 'Prince' is not just hearts and flowers, silver spoons and what not. I have seen enough of the world to understand that. Until we get all the story and a Kylo Ren evil incarnate with no remorse and devoid of all positive human emotions I will not judge him. The same I do not judge Poe for shooting at people in the back that are not even shooting anyone.
So...how is that 'village' different than a SKB. It is full of soldiers that shoot at the opposing army and he ordered clearing a village full of hostiles. Is that not an act of war against the other military force? Pacified or not they are still hostiles. I am not much of a soldier but I dunno what do you do with beaten hostiles if capturing is not an option. You let them go?

Right hand to Snoke? I thought he was his apprentice. There is clearly not a relationship of equals. If anything Hux is more of a right hand to snoke cuz he commands FO and SKB? Kylo is the Master of the Knights of Ren. He is not in the position to order Hux around. He suggests things to him.
When it comes to destruction of Hosnian system, for me that is on the hands of Snoke and Hux. Not Kylo's. Cuz he was not in the position to stop it. Just show his disapproval, which he did when he secluded himself away from Hux's firing parade.

I can respect that. But I do not agree with it. Not yet at least. If Kylo goes and do more bad sith then I'll be with ya

Vader was redeemed. In the eyes of GA and everyone I have ever talked to about SW. The ones that only know the basics of the story and those who delve deep into it. And he did much worse things than Kylo. He tortured his daughter, for one? what did he do to get redemption? He saved Luke and just killed Palps. Why...Cuz SW is not real world and great actions of goodnes redeem great actions of evilness.

The hard part of the story is believable rendemption. Making him worthy. A worthy guy getting the girl is the easy part


Sorry to cut this short I gotta go pick up my son from the kindergarten we are going for sleighing
Cheers

 

Yup, that's what I'm thinking too. He knows ABOUT her somehow.

Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe Rey has a vision of a young Ben Solo. That would help her see that he wasn't always a "monster"

Didn't some Lucasfilm official say that by that line Ren meant that she's the awakening in the force?

We can't really compare the two, can we? They've dealt with completely different issues.

 

I agree in the statement that we see them differently but not in the statement that it will not change. I already think so much better of Finn than I did upon the first viewing when it bugged me immensely how arrogant he is that he, who is nothing when compared to Rey, not just think he can save her but also acts out like he is her saviour. I was so angry at that...and was ranting: "She doesn't need your help!!...she is perfectly capable of saving herself!!!...what kind of presumptious sithy male guy you must be if such a thing even crossed your mind!!" Then I watched the movie again (just a 'few' more times, lol) and discussed his behaviour with different people, you included...and I realized...his intention is noble...his heart is pure...he genuinely wants to help her...he doesn't do it to show off..he is genuine....so much that he is blind to how presomptious and patronising he comes off...but he only does it cuz he is a kid...childlike....an innocent in so many ways and doesn't know any better...and throughout the movie he is getting better at it all...shooting the laser guns from that tie fighter or MF gun with encreased proficiency by the moment...and the same with luke's lightsaber. First he sucked with TR-8R but then actually hitting Kylo later... I am really honest when I say I look forward to seeing the progression of his story in 8. And I see my opinion of him only improving. But to be honest he is not what interests me most there. It is kylo who i care about most. Hope you'll feel the same in the sense that you change your mind about kylo. If ofc he deserved it.

IMO...Kylo's biggest transgression is killing LST. I personally expect some good explanation for that. Like for example he was a head of the Church/Order that took gifted kids from the bosoms of their loving mothers and families just to brainwash them to teach them to be devoided of all emmotions so they can be used as fighters/cannon fodder in some holy war of spreading the Order's view of the Force through the Universe....oh wait...he was not a Jedi...then I hope he turns out to be a filthy mercenary...or a politician...f*ck...those are not irredimable either in SW universe...why else everybody love the Fetts...or Bail who acted like a coward in PT....damn...i dunno how they will justify kylo killing lst..but if they don't it will always bug me most.

What about the villagers, sir?
They are not civilians if they weild weapons. Then they are soldiers. Even if they have souls. All there in that scene are a bunch of soldiers killing other soldiers under orders of wipping the enemy and clearing a site. The proper etiquette in a similar situation irl i presume is to take prisoners. But not even in real life prisoners are taken always. Then that sith is accounted as collateral damage. Whose deaths and dead bodies you do not see on tv. Which doesn't mean it didn't happen. And most collateral damage irl are not 'villagers' with guns. Are women and kids. Innocents. And in real life people are getting Nobel prizes for ordering that sith, these days.

And let us just consider the SKB anhialation. Let me indulge the same reasoning you have for the Hosnian system for the sake of the argument. Finn said that he was stationed in sanitation and that Jakku was his first mission in which he chose not to fire. That indicates that there are more stormtroopers who never saw battle and whose designation is unmilitarry personel. People without guns. More than that, Hux discussed how they train/condition stormtroopers from birth...Finn confirmed. So it is only logical to presume (for a non canon connoisseur like me) that the training facilities were also stationed on skb planet where there were kids in training to become the next stormtrooper...and their teachers...caregivers...healthpracticioners...stuff like that. Poe killed them all. Are the lives of (brainwashed or halfbrainwashed) kids less precious then the lives of politicians and others in Hosnian system?

What I mean to say, uneloquently, is...i hope i don't come off as someone who condones genocide...i really don't..irl....but my points are: first....it is hard to apply real life morality to fantasy stories cuz real life morality is seldom uncompromised.
Second...if you do apply it (even if it is not clean) then it should be applied unbiasedly to all. Not just to bad boy Kylo. If we judge 'bad' evil actions let us judge then the bad actions of all...not just the bad guys. Otherwise it's biased.
Third...it cannot be applied cuz movie morality is not the same as reallife morality. It is the place where great acts of goodnes wipe clean the past and make heroes.

And yeah...I am biased towards Kylo. He is not just some random bomber terrorist with a sad story behind him. He is a Skywalker. The last born one!! I want him saved. I want him to save himself. He is Han and Leia's's only son...an heir to Luke's legacy...I know him. He is family. His actions hurt but I can not give up on him as long as there is still light in him. And there is. There will always be cuz he is the embodiment of both sides of the Force. Unless he somehow falls to the darkness completely. Which imo hasn't happened yet. If it did he would be more powerfull after he killed Han. He is the opposite. He can't even freeze people anymore. And he hits himself in his side wound so he would draw on the pain and the anger. But that is not a powerfull Sith standing there. Hus light bursts through no matter how much he forces himself to be bad. He offers to teach Rey...when he has her cornered...lol...sorry...but...no am not convinced he has become ultimate evilness just yet.

Yeah...well that's just cuz Luke is not a good publicist. Lol..I dunno... I agree to an extent. I don't think that even if he is redeemed and survives kylo will get hapily ever after...i don't want him to either....But still, the GA...you know...the average joe that doesn delve deep into the SW or live it like we do, see Vader redeemed. Cuz they buy their kids Vader merchandise. And the kids...the kids see him as a good guy who did the right thing in the end and saved the galaxy by saving his son and killing the ultimate evil figure of OT. Plus...I just bought a Vader pajamas to my son I hear anything Kylo related sells really well too. And you know why that is...cuz 'movie' evilness is not the same as real life evilness. No one is buying Hitler pajamas or Manson pajamas to their kids? Unless they are really f*ucked up...but those are not the GA and regular joes of this world. Lol..at least i hope so.

Sorry for the long delay...i was busy learning to snowboard. Every part of my body hurts. My knees the most...I am getting too old for this sith i think...lol
Have a great rest of the sunday

 

Sometimes I need to remind myself why am I a reyloer
This:






Ahhhh...

 

Anyone seen this:

 

"Name three non-Star Wars films you watched in preparation (of Episode 8).
Rian Johnson: Twelve O’Clock High was a big touchstone, for the feel and look of the aerial combat as well as the dynamic between the pilots. Three Outlaw Samurai for the feel of the sword-fighting, and the general sense of pulpy fun. And To Catch A Thief was a great film to rewatch, for the romantic scale and grandeur."

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/rian-johnson-last-jedi-interview/

"Larry King: Without giving away any spoilers, what’s one aspect of Kylo Ren you’re excited for fans to see in the next film?

Adam Driver: I think, I mean this is such a general answer, but you know…humanity."

http://screencrush.com/star-wars-episode-viii-kylo-ren-humanity/

 

Gotta watch to catch a thief then

 

Connection between Kylo Ren and Rey from Star Wars Databank:



source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren


source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/rey


http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren-biography-gallery


source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren-biography-gallery


source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren-biography-gallery


source: http://www.starwars.com/databank/rey-biography-gallery

Main Source:



It sounded like they will share a force bond or some kind of connection.

 

All of the posts here suggest that Kylo feels something to Rey. However, does she feel anything romantic to him? No. She hates him and that won't change. If something happens between them, it would be closer to sexual abuse than true love.

 

People never change in Star Wars, right?