REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

Even if he did return to the Light, he still would be responsible for killing his father without any particular reason, torturing prisoners, seriously injuring Rey's best friend, ordering to execute the whole population of a defenceless village and physically abusing his subordinates. It takes a lot to forgive such atrocities in the first place. Even Leia wasn't able to fully forgive Anakin what he had done as Darth Vader. Falling in love is with such a person is even harder than that. Besides, who can guarantee that he won't return to his old habits after seemingly becoming good?

 

I was thinking of Rey changing from being a hater.

 

Perhaps this is what Ren is referring to when he says, "Don't be afraid, I feel it too." Especially if she is aware of the connection too and he knows it.

 

Josh Gad has now enlisted Dame Judi Dench to ask some of the pertinent, indeed crucial, Star Wars questions. Brilliant fun and I'm 99.9% sure Daisy is in on the joke as well with those videos. Forget about the who is the last jedi question. "What's the deal with Reylo?" is just pure gold.

 

"Name three non-Star Wars films you watched in preparation (of Episode 8).

Rian Johnson: And To Catch A Thief was a great film to rewatch, for the romantic scale and grandeur."

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/rian-johnson-last-jedi-interview/

"the scandalous romance"




What romance could be considered "scandalous" in Episode 8 ?

 

because it's a fairy tale. people don't backslide in fairy tales.

oh my God i laughed so hard at this! it really IS Judi Dench! and she really does ask her about Reylo! hahahahahaha

 

I know! I think these videos are just brilliant. Love them! This last one is the best so far especially because of seeing Dame Judi Dench having to ask about midichlorians and Reylo. So hilarious!

One thing's for sure. Especially with the starwars.com recent databank update (about which @Gray-Jedi already posted about on the previous page) which is also backed up by what JJ Abrams said in TFA commentary - There is indeed a "mysterious connection" already formed between Rey and Kylo and their "destinies are intertwined" in an interesting way.
Without any doubt this surely will develop and be further explored going forth and is basically at the center of this trilogy. Romantic or not. And since I don't think they are related, it stands to reason to speculate that indeed, it could be romantic.

Basically she is either his lost sister (but oddly who for some reason nobody in TFA seems to recognise as such and somehow has complete amnesia about) and her disappearance and loss years ago is revealed to have been a crucial reason for Ben Solo's fall to the dark side and his disappointment with his parents, etc (which I would say story wise would have made a lot of sense, and would have indeed been a compelling story, but with the way things were portrayed in TFA and especially the way Rey and Kylo interacted, I just don't think that's what TPTB decided to go with) or she is not at all related and their relationship will be interesting not because they are blood related, but because there is something else going on, which will be the far more interesting option storywise...
(I think that the silliest option narratively is if they are cousins. I just don't get why on earth any decent writer will opt for the cousin option, but that's another topic which I think has been talked about to death as it is and I don't even wish to go into at all...)

My money is on a Kenobi connection - thus closing the circle of the entwined destinies of Obi-Wan with the Skywalkers which to me at present is the story with the biggest potential that will tie all trilogies together in a very grand way indeed...But, we shall see...

Until the 1st trailer drops (attached to Disney's Beauty and the Beast - March 17th - I would venture speculating) we can enjoy Josh Gad and Daisy brilliantly trolling us big time with these hilarious Murder on the Orient Express set (totally staged) videos which are delightful...

 

i'm always saying "nothing is as obvious as people think it is" but i will say this about Kylo Ren and Rey:

1. they have a connection. it's stated in black and white.
2. Ren is smitten with Rey; it may not even be romantic per se, but he's probably never seen another Force user like her and that's attractive to him. i think most people will concur that he is--and those who doubt it have no idea how the way he looks at her lights up alarm bells on probably the majority of the female audience.
3. i hate to beat this one to death, but you don't take an actor who looks like this:

and turn him into this,

...if your intention is to make your audience hate him.

and for all the people who want to play the "Prince Hans" card on this one:
Kylo Ren is a prince who hides behind a monster.
Hans is a monster who hides behind a prince.

i still ultimately don't care whether Reylo actually happens, but if having a relationship with Rey helps save this boy, i'll all in.

 

Love it.

People need to understand that JJ is a season filmmaker. When Ren takes that mask off and Rey gives him that look, JJ knows the connotations of that. Rey digs this monster. The fact alone that ReyLo has such a large following is testament to that. "Nothing happens by accident".

 

i don't know if the way Reylo has snowballed is a testament to its obviousness or a new and interesting phenomena of people bandwagonning on a controversial topic. i think once people adjusted to the shock of Han's death they started looking at what else was going on with the character.

i still think Rey will hold him off at arm's length and the ST will end with their friendship being somewhat ambiguous: potential, but not actualized. it may be the only way to please the majority of the audience since you get to write your own conclusion. if they are daring, they'll go full-Reylo and risk the wrath.

i think the discussions of gendered violence are important to a degree, but once again this is a fantasy story with a tradition of telling mostly white/black-stories. the fact of infusing the ST with a little potential gray means this could go either way between Ren and Rey. there's no should here. they're going to tell the story they want and we can love it or leave it. and if people choose to leave it, oh well: there are a million other fans who either won't care or will love it.

as with the question of Rey's parentage: i personally don't care. all i care about is that Ben makes it back to his mother and does the right thing.

outside of Rey's bloodline, it's largely the perception of the irredeemably of Ben that keeps Reylo in controversy. solve that problem and the rest doesn't matter.
and if people believe Ben is forever and utterly irredeemable no matter what he does, all i can wonder about is what in the world they think Star Wars is about.

and if Ben dies in the dark to the resounding cheers of the haters, well, yippee-doodle. Kathleen Kennedy has just taught a whole generation of children that hatred and scorn is a-ok and that compassion is weakness. Kathleen Kennedy is Snoke.

yeah, i don't think so. hahahaha

 

The greater risk for me is that this trilogy will be sexless. Sterile. Impotent.
It was certainly lacking in TFA with Finn quite obviously dumped in the friend zone.

I think this whole ReyLo thing goes beyond the divide of those who are for or against that idea - it's about being for or against Ben Solo's redemption. And for those against it, I firmly believe they have, as you say, missed the point of Star Wars.

It just seems that people go on about equality for women and that Rey falling in love would damage that. I utterly disagree. Rey, like most women, is a human being. And it'd be inhuman for her not to explore her own sexuality.

Some of the main themes of Star Wars link directly into this discussion; people having two identities; losing their humanity; redemption through love.
This for me is Kylo Ren. Underneath he is Ben Solo. He is losing his humanity. But he can be redeemed through love. The ultimate goal of the hero is to find out how to do this (and make no mistake, like Luke redeeming Vader, this will be Rey's goal). And she will need to confront these difficult themes in order to achieve that. She will need to look past Kylo Ren to see Ben Solo. She will need to explore her own humanity in discovering her feelings for him (that will motivate her to redeem him). And she will then need to love him (not silly gooey-eyed love) in order to redeem him.

If none of that happens, then Han died for nothing, Kylo Ren is two dimensional and Rey is less of a hero than Luke.

 

i couldn't agree more.

whether it's romantic love or not, Rey has to embody love as Luke did. that's the only truly heroic path for her. and her current state of hatred is the perfect launch point for that. right now, she has no reason to feel anything but loathing for Ren. Luke is going to teach her otherwise. because Luke loves Ben and will want her to see him that way too.

 

I don't see why she is suposed to feel sexual drive towards Kylo Ren to redeem him? He's not evil because he was dumped by a girlfriend. It's much more than that. He needs someone who can take care after him, he needs a family. Of course, a girlfriend/wife is a part of a family, but not because of sex but because of a bond that she shares with her boyfriend/husband. The only person in Kylo's life right now that certainly has such a sentiment is Leia, but since Carrie Fisher has passed away finding another character that shares the same bond is tricky and making Rey fall in love with him would be more in line with Stockholm syndrome than "true love."

Speaking of their connection, in my opinion it's not about their feelings towards each other and more about their destiny. These two people are the only ones (that we know of) in young age that are aware of their Force-sensitivity. Why is their age important? Their masters, Luke and Snoke, are much closer to death than Rey and Kylo and they are probably very aware of passage of time. They need these two young people to share their knowledge and to fight over the fate of the Force in foreseeable future. Without these two, their knowledge would die and no one knows how much time would pass until someone would rediscover the secrets of the Force. At least that's what I think.

 

I'm not saying that. My personal view is that she could feel this way towards him but that the whole redemption through love concept is deeper than that. Regardless f how they are connected, Rey has to love Ben so redeem him.

 

In addition to all that (with which I agree) is the fact that many people somehow seem forget that this trilogy is tied to the previous two, which were about the fall and the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Redeeming Ben Solo is a crucial part of the Skywalker saga, because redeeming and saving him is also part of redeeming and saving Vader. We see that currently and deludedly Kylo believes that his destiny is to follow what Vader has done. This means that Vader's (Anakin's) story is basically not done yet. The shadow of Vader has not been exorsised so to speak as it quite obvious still affects events. Ben's mother, Leia, (evidenced in Bloodline) doesn't seem to have come to terms with the fact that Anakin Skywalker was Vader and her father and that to me is important.

The ST seems to me to be about coming to terms with Anakin/Vader's legacy, somehow finding a way to exercise the shadow Vader left and saving his grandson from being consumed in that shadow.
If he is not saved then Vader was not saved, everybody failed terribly with everything and Han died for nothing. That's what's at stakes here!

There are two options I see as it comes to Rey's role in that. She is either Ben's lost sister and naturally she will feel unconditional compassion for her brother who will want to protect her, and that is a good story, OR, and I find this scenario far more narratively satisfying (and likely at this point), she is not blood related to him, but their connection will be an important one and one way or another compassion or love will drive her to want to and be able to help save him.

If she is not related I believe that the narrative angle with greatest impact for the saga as a whole is for her to somehow be a descendant of Obi-Wan Kenobi who was always crucially involved in the Skywalker saga and their destiny and her legacy and destiny is to save the fallen Skywalker thus redeeming the failure of Obi-Wan to save his friend and student Anakin so many years ago and thus fulfilling hers and Obi-Wan's destiny to save the fallen Skywalker.

And as @master_shaitan points out, this saga needs a love story.
We had one in the PT between Anakin and Padme - like it or not how it was executed is another discussion, but it was a grand love story nevertheless and a love story that directly impacted the story in the OT; we had one in the OT with Han and Leia, a memorable love story which by the way resulted in the creation of Ben Solo who I'm sure was and is loved by his mother and father and to me it is very very logical to have a love story in the ST that is as impactful, memorable and important. I simply cannot imagine that the grand love story which basically is logical to expect, is anti-climatically relegated to be that of Finn and an unknown female character who we have not yet met. (It is rumored that there will be something romantic going on between them, but to be blunt, I don't care one bit).
I just don't see why that would be the epic love story the saga narrative logic demands...I don't see Rey and Finn (even if they were meant to be set up to be romantic interests which they obviously are not) having any potential whatsoever as having an epic love story even if they were meant to, which they are not. Unless Rey goes full evil somehow by VIII and Finn completely disregards that and nevertheless goes and saves her, which is pointless because, hey ho, look at that - we already have a Skywalker boy who seems to do evil things against his better judgement and needs saving and looks like "sort of a prince".

In this space fairy tale, we have a dark prince who is obviously tortured and torn, and appears as if enchanted by a dark curse, but who we know is still loved by his estranged parents (which we the audience have reason to love and trust) despite everything. We know (and Rey will find out) that he has been manipulated and twisted by a malevolent presence (Snoke) even before he was born (confirmed by the latest Aftermath: Empire's End novel), thus he is basically someone who has been put "under a dark spell" before he could even be able to have any choice at all. Thus our sympathy and that of the heroine for someone who basically had very little chance to defend himself is assured. He feels inexplicably drawn to a mysterious connection with the Jakku scavenger (and let me point it out he feels the connection before he knows she is FS!) and that intrigues him.

That mysterious connection seems to me is beyond them just feeling each others Force sensitivity. It surely is more than just that. As per the updated databank on starwars.com Kylo senses that "their destinies are somehow intertwined".



The question is what is that connection and how will it develop and affect both of them and the story in the ST, but also, and I must reiterate that, becuase it is very important not to forget it, How will the story in the ST affect the story of the whole saga, because it no doubt will and should.

 

Great post @Obi-Wan Solo

Just to add one minor point that you imply anyway (but I like to stand on the back of giants so I will say it anyway!) - people are up in arms about ReyLo because of how we view Kylo Ren now. But what if in TLJ all this stuff about his past is explicitly revealed by Luke - that he was tricked by Snoke, utterly manipulated and deceived early on into walking the dark path? I'm not exonerating him from his crimes, but it would certainly make me feel a lot more sympathy for him.

 

Well, yes, I already pointed out that he is already set up as being put under a dark spell even before he had any choice in the matter in his mother's womb as it is. Crimes or not, he is to be pitied and we must feel sympathy for him surely. The person (or entity) behind all of this is Snoke. He is the one to blame and Leia already said so in TFA and all new emerging information corroborates that. Here are two leaked excerpts from Aftermath:Empire's End that show this. I put them in Spoiler tags for those who don't want to be spoiled to read them...

Spoiler: Aftermath: Empire's End relevant excerpts

Leia has a dream:

"Luke. She reaches for him but doesn't find him.
The dark, now lit with stars. One by one, like eyes opening. Comforting at first, then sinister as she worries, Who is out there, who is watching us? Hands reach for her, hands of shadow, lifting her up, reaching for her throat, her wrists, her stomach -
Inside, the child kicks. She feels her baby turning inside, right-side, up and down, struggling to find his bearings, trying so hard to find his way free of her. It's not time, she thinks. Just a little longer.
Leia.
Luke, she wants to cry out. But her words don't come. her mouth is sealed, a hand pressed over it. One by one, stars go dark again, winking out of existence as if by a hand slowly closing over them -
Leia!
She gasps and wakes. Han. It's just Han. he's by her side of the bed, rousing her, gently shaking her shoulder.
The dream recedes like a wave going back to sea.
Hi, she says, her mouth tacky, her eyes full of sleep. her middle twists too - it's not the baby. It's some unseen fear uncoiling. The remnants of the dream haunt her - but they break apart like a sand castle as she sits up and clears her head, doing as Luke thought her to do.
Breathe in breathe out. be mindful of the world, the galaxy, your place within it. Everything will be OK. The Force will be your guide."

----------
Another excerpt about baby Ben:

"he[baby] is less a human shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She [Leia] tells herself that it's normal - Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.
Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can't get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark. She centers herself and concentrates. The walls of the room fall away. Everything is white and then it's black. Then she's in the clam, airless void. As Leia finds her peace, so does her son. he stops turning...
The he gets the hiccups.
Hic.Hic.Hic.
She sighs and it brings her out of it. But she laughs, too. Because the hiccups tickle her. They are like bubbles inside - a curious effervescence like nothing Leia ever felt before.
My son is alive. The future is bright.
...
The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand.

#SaveBenSolo !

 

you're not going to make an argument to be taken seriously with that gif ~ hahahaha

but i'm gonna disagree with you still. it's not so much that it means "nothing" ~ it just denies Han's actions satisfaction in a way that's meaningful for us.
people make pointless/effectiveless/only introverted sacrifices all the time.
we don't want that for our legacy characters.
we want Han's last gesture to save his son.
because why wouldn't we? it's redemptive for both of them.

and yes, Ben can only save himself yadda yadda yadda ~ of course that's true, but he needs help. i mean: look at him! hahahaha
people in trouble need help. they need support. they need guidance. we're just identifying potential places for where that help can come from.

Rey can't save Ben. but she can give him the perspective/balance/stability/comfort he needs to get his shoe buttons together.
and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

I watched this recently! Wasn't there two other films he mentioned before filming as well that he had people watch (That Russian film, I saw it and something else besides the 3 mentioned).