REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

I firmly believe this tread should had a One Direction Soundtrack and Emojis

(and now back to StarWars)

 

i think you misunderstood me.
when i said "no argument", i didn't meant you weren't offering one, i meant i have no argument against you--i agree! : D
the kid needs serious help. i just hope he gets it.

 

i think that obliviousness is what drives a lot of the shipping in TFA, frankly.

 

Well, we do have gifs.

(And now for something completely different).



Some very talented people on Youtube (and others less talented) have made pretty decent music videos. Here is one great one.

But, to be back to the more serious discussion. There are two very important things from JJ Abrams's commentary that I haven't seen people discussing and I think are potentially quite telling.

Firstly, JJ comments that when Kylo takes of his mask "he just looks like a sort of prince", which he is. One he looks gorgeous, and second he technically is prince of Alderaan, so Adam was deliberately made to look the lost (enchanted/cursed) prince look. Some of us have been pointing over and over about how the make up, hair etc choice of Adam's look was deliberate, and JJ's commentary confirms it.

But the second bit, also related to Kylo's unmasking and immediately following the comment of him looking like a prince is the following very interesting (and related) passage as part of comment for Kylo's unmasking for Rey: "But the question of why he wears the mask was answered in his insecurity. That he was involved with the Knights of Ren, which we have a whole backstory for. But the idea that he was using that mask for intimidation, that he, like many terrorists, is a coward, and he’s someone who’s hiding, who’s trying to scare you. And he knows that what you don’t see is more frightening. And I think he’s also got a little bit of a Vader wish, that he’s trying to emulate his grandfather.”
That's very interesting, as it also connects with the piece of dialogue in the movie when Kylo comments that rey still wants to kill him, and she says that "That happens when she is being hunted by a creature in a mask".

And then, Kylo/Ben takes off that mask that we are told he wears because he is hiding and because he wants to appear intimidating and frightening, and shows/reveals his princely self to Rey.
I have seen people saying that, he was manipulating her, but I think it is more than obvious that he genuinely was fascinated by her and did not want to be intimidating or frightening. (He tells her not to be afraid, etc.)
And all of this is BEFOR he is even aware she is force sensitive, which I think is important as his interest towards Rey at least at first seems to be (as @master_shaitan put it, a young man seeing an attractive young woman).



Which I can't help being reminded of his dad's far than smooth moves on mom back in ESB.



Of course, I'm certainly not at all claiming that the dynamic is the same, but the visual and metaphorical parallel is striking...Kylo carrying Rey in his arms "bridal style" and holding her (against her will) as his "guest" (a direct and I would say very blatant callback to the situation in the Beauty and the Beast) is very interesting.

And definetely, as things stand now, while he is definetely interested, Rey is (at least on a sane level) not, and he will have to do more than just hold her to win her over.

So, he was definetely very intrigued by her (so much so that he takes her) before he even knew she is Force sensitive, and before she demonstrated she is his equal in power. He was instinctively drawn to her, and it was hinted that despite everything she is somewhat also drawn to him as well (as per novelization description).

And this is his look when her Force sensitivity to be strong was confirmed without any doubt. He is simply smitten.



This is the look, "Wonderful girl, I'm either gonna kill her, or I'm beginning to like her".

The question is, how will that relationship continue and develop going forth...

(And as @master_shaitan pointed out, it would be very strange indeed if Ben/Kylo and Rey end up to be related later as that would make no sense at all. In the case of Luke and Leia, GL simply hadn't planned them initially to be siblings, but in this case, surely TPTB know very who Rey is...)

I'm definetely not a "shipper", because that is silly and I'm too old and out of touch with this current decade of social media silliness (I'll admit though, gifs are great!), but from my very 1st viewing of TFA I definetely immediately saw the absolutely great potential of a space fairy tale love story and I will be really very surprised indeed if it isn't planned to be one. (And I'm academically researching basically fairy tales, so I would hope my senses are attuned to knowing that.)

I will not be terribly upset if there wasn't romance between those two (but it will be such a missed opportunity!), and the only thing that I will not find acceptable is not saving Ben Solo, but if there is an extra side of a (potentially epic) love story I think it would be grand.

 

I'm sorry. Yes, I had misunderstood your comment
although my GIFs is not excessive.

 

Just a side comment: I know Leia gave up her succession rights after Alderaan was destroyed, but, if the Alderaan monarchy still existed, Ben would be the heir apparent to the royal dynasty, so, technically, he is actually a prince.

 

Yep. This is exactly what I meant in my post as well when I said he is the prince of Alderaan.
So, yes, he is technically actually a prince. Not only that he looks like one, or because of JJ's remark in the commentary to that effect.

So the enchanted prince turned into a monster which is not his true nature trope of Beauty and the Beast (and other fairy tales) is really rather strong.

And speaking of fairytales, I came across a clever Youtube video comparing visual and musical elements to Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast, in which the saber is the crystal shoe of Cinderella that can fit only her, which is rather clever as for exactly that moment where Rey runs from Maz's castle JJ indeed compares Rey to Cinderella, which she is - in TFA she is a scavenger. (And the one who has to come back is Ben, not so much Luke.)
So her with her humble look and beginning and him the lost enchanted prince of Alderaan "will have a very interesting relationship going forward".

 

we touched on this before, long long ago in a thread far far away, but there's also an interesting question here about Ren Ben's development.
he is the only film Force user aside from Anakin who knew he was strong in the Force as a child.
Anakin should have had the Jedi to guide him through the worst of his adolescence (yeah, they did a bang-up job).
who was there for Ben? possibly Luke?

again, you have this very powerful kid who might have been (whether on purpose or by accident) separated from his Force-null peers and brought up in a more ascetic environment? or (for better or worse) brought up with them despite being an outsider?
from his behavior in TFA it suggests he doesn't know how to get along with others--how to even talk to them.
he can barely behave himself talking to Snoke.

my point being, where others may see him being manipulative, i just see an awkward duck.
the spoiled/cursed/lost prince who needs a guiding hand.

i'm pretty sure he knew.
he was anticipating her from the start (as you said, instinctively).
he's likely seen her as she has seen him. he only wanted/needed actual confirmation, which he finally gets in that "smitten" moment.
he even guards his knowledge from Snoke.
he tells Snoke she's strong in the Force, but i'm sure he suspects more (she is the awakening), but he omits telling him that because:
1.) he wants to confirm his suspicions, 2.) he covets her, and 3.) he possibly knows his destiny is bound to hers already.

 

Well he IS brainwashed.

 

I have so much tho say about this topic, which I will eventually, but for now I have one question to ask....JJ in that famous commentary mentions not only a prince....at one point he mentiones a 'prince and a princess'
Could our heroine have a royal background? If so, I personally would prefer it to be of Mandalorian origin rather then Emperial

 

Yes, indeed, JJ's commentary says:
“You’re probably going to have a castle, and a prince and a princess, if you’re looking at a fairy tale.”
/ “She is . . . almost like Cinderella.”
/ “When his mask comes off . . . he looks like a sort of prince.”

I myself am a staunch supporter of Obi-Wan and Satine too as grandparents (and there is enough background story already established to make that a very viable and possible option), but if it's only Obi-Wan as grandfather I'd be perfectly happy with that too...There are so many great points for Rey being Obi-Wan's granddaughter and I've discussed them elsewhere many times as I find Rey being the possible Kenobi descendant the most satisfying thing for her parentage and for the story....Here, here and also here for example.

Even if she wasn't, she could always become a princess, by marrying a prince. Just like Belle and Cinderella.

 

Well, that is an interesting tidbit that just dropped. Apparently Eddie Redmayne has auditioned to play (he thinks) Kylo Ren by being asked to act out Pride and Prejudice lines for his audition...Hm. I have many times been half-joking (but really not joking) how Kylo and Rey's relationship will be like that of Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet, but in space and with magic. Maybe I was not being very far from the truth after all...



Eddie Redmayne reveals he auditioned to play Kylo Ren in Star Wars
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/0...n?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

 

i don't disagree with anything you've said pertaining to the current state of their "relationship". he's creepy and awkward and probably has never legitimately cared selflessly for anyone.

where i disagree is in thinking that killing Han cements anything. Rey thinks he's a monster now (and she's right). and yes, there's a strong likelihood the best she might care for him is in a pathetic sensibility: she'll help him because it's the right thing to do.
but i don't think that's about Han necessarily. Han is not a magical stopgap to people thinking or feeling differently about Ben (well, it is for some people, obviously, but it's not a "given").

and there's still a lot of story to happen and who knows what might turn Rey's rage into pity and then into something else. why would Rey's character development go into the garbage if she had even the slightest feeling for this guy if he came back to the Light? that's sort of black and white thinking. don't forget that Rey is going to be challenged by the Dark (we know she is), so who knows what's in store for her and for her connection to Ren Ben. if you have a psychic bond through the Force, would it not give you deeper insight into the true heart of another person (for example)? and though i didn't watch the show, wasn't Adam Driver's character on Girls a creepy unhinged weirdo until he suddenly became the sanest person in the room? (just as an example of evolution).

i dunno. i think it's premature to call this one. it's not going to crumble into Twilight because a vocal minority on a forum thinks so (to use your own hyperbole ~ ha!). it doesn't have to, anyway. a good story, well-told can convince us of anything. i continue to keep an open mind.

 

I don't think they ever have a relationship, but I think he could develop unrequited feelings for her that lead to his redemption. Kind of a Snape-Lilly Potter type deal.