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REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Moral Hazard, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    As a woman with good instincts, I never felt anything wrong about the interrogation scene, but Snoke's words made me shiver when I read them in the novel. Sometimes I think that's why Ren offered to teach her. Hoping if she joined, Snoke would leave her alone.
     
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  2. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    I don't think Ren was thinking much (with his brain anyway) when he offered to teach Rey. :rolleyes: If he was thinking anything, my headcanon is that he had a vague idea of getting away from Snoke (his father's words still echoing in his mind...) and off-roading with his new student. Strangely, Rey took exception to that idea. :p
     
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  3. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    Oh let's not go there haha Ren is a bit stunted in that department I think.

    It's like Anakin and Padme and Vader and Luke. Join him, defeat Snoke.
     
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i agree ~ to a certain extent.
    i think it's pure self-preservation.
    on a number of complex levels.
     
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  5. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    1. Balancing meaning her connection is with the light side of the Force. She will be finding her pull towards the dark. Kylo uses the dark side. He finds his pull is towards the light. Rey was abandoned. Kylo had a support system around him. Rey accepted a father figure. Kylo killed a father figure. I liken it to, as I mentioned, a photo and its negative. They are twins within the Force. Much like Brother and Sister in the Mortis Arc of the Clone Wars - except neither are purely light or dark.

    2. I just answered above.

    3. Ask ANY teenager if shipping means to be put two people together for romantic purposes and they will tell you that's what they mean. That's how I used it. And that's how I have come to understand it. If Wikipedia says differently...then okay. It's still Wikipedia.

    4. I do believe in forgiveness. Han forgave his son just before he fell down the shaft while having a lightsaber in his chest. Will Leia? Who knows. Rey's pull to the dark will be to not forgive Kylo. She won't want to because she doesn't understand how he could kill a parent. I do not, however, believe either Kylo or Rey will become romantically attached to each other. To me they will end up being siblings through the Force.

    (fun theory...Luke dies protecting Kylo from being killed by Rey in either this or the next movie. He does this so Rey doesn't fall to the dark side. Which inevitably causes Kylo to see Luke's sacrifice and start making his way back to the light).

    5. First: Mentally raping is not to be confused with sexually raping. Rape is not mutually exclusive to sexual behavior (i.e. the Rape of Nanking). It also means on an individual level to "seize, or take or carry off by force"). He's seizing information from her brain by force.

    Second: You asked about Kylo and Rey. Not Kylo and Poe, so its a bit unfair to infer that I was purposely leaving out Poe.

    Of course Kylo was mentally raping Poe as well. He enters others minds and takes what he wants. That's mentally raping. It's not bias towards any sex. When he was in Rey's mind it opened his mind as well, and because she has the Force she could read his thoughts. By the time he realized what she was doing, it was too late for him.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2017 ---
    Rape is absolutely not too strong of a word. There is a non-sexual meaning to it. Today's society uses the sexual meaning predominately. But what he is doing is forcing his way into her brain and taking what he wants. He says as very much to her. I see nothing sexual within what he is doing. I see the same type of abusive personality whether its Rey or Poe, or whoever else's brain into which he has forced himself. Make no mistake, in TFA, Kylo is abusive, egomaniacal, bratty, immature, and angry. He is acting like how he THINKS people with the Dark Side are supposed to act.
     
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  6. Lady Rey

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    That's the problem. It's a word people are misusing in ways that degrade his character.
     
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  7. FN-3263827

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    agreed. Kylo Ren the angry brat is very different from Kylo Ren the rapist. : o p
     
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  8. Lady Rey

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    Yeah and a guy who goes out of his way to not harm her, and also feels compassion is not going to forcefully hurt her sexually. He even gently touches her cheek in the book.

    One thing I don't get though, is how Han did not seem worried when he carried her to his ship. Meanwhile poor Finn is having a conniption.
     
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  9. FN-3263827

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    Han is not worried about her when they find her on Starkiller either (while Finn is asking "did he hurt you???").
    maybe he knows something we don't ~ hahahaha

    i always just took it that he can't deal with thinking of his son that way (monstrous, capable of all that violence).
    not sure it really means anything in particular.
     
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  10. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    It just seems a bit cold on Han's part, but I like to think though he knows his son may have turned, he would never go as far as to mistreat a woman.
     
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  11. FN-3263827

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    i guess i don't see it as cold so much as just avoidant.
    is avoidance cold? hahaha ~ not sure.

    it's also a testament to his certainty that Rey can handle herself.
     
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  12. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    I guess it's because of how she sees Han. Maybe he doesn't know her feelings.
     
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  13. FN-3263827

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    how do you mean?
     
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  14. Lady Rey

    Lady Rey Guest

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    She sees him as a father. I don't know if Han noticed that. I know Leia felt like a mother to her, and her a daughter to Leia, but Han was never an easy one to read.

    She doesn't want to be abandoned again, but accepts it, so when they do finally show up to save her, she looks like she can't believe they came for her by request of Finn.
     
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  15. FN-3263827

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    oh. huh.
    i think Han's smarter than we give him credit for.
    i think he recognizes her "hero worship" when he's correcting her about parsecs.
    but he's that gruff old guy ~ it's not like he wears his feelings on his sleeve or expresses himself easily.
    i'm sure he was terrible dealing with Ben if Ben was the least bit emotional as a kid ~ hahaha
     
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  16. Lady Rey

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    Yeah that's why I love Han! The stubborn ones are worth it!

    Ben has a lot of Han in him, from his sarcastic comments, to his smirk when Rey saw him unmasked, but he's also a lot like Leia when it comes to his emotions. I think Rey used the word "sensitive' in the book when describing him.

    That's why when the word "rape" is misused, it takes away from the character of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren and places him the villain only category. Yet some of those same people loved Anakin and were glad Vader was redeemed, despite killing children and doing awful things. Ben kills Han and that's enough not to redeem him? That's a good reason Rey should kill him? I just don't get it.
     
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  17. BespinMinersUnion1138

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    The word "rape" is not mutually exclusive to a sexual act of violence. It is the most common use of the word nowadays, however, in its alternate use:

    "destroy and strip of its possession" or "seize, or take or carry off by force"

    Usually this is meant in terms of a countryside or region during warfare. But, it can also be used in an extreme sense when talking about taking someone, or something from someone. He enters her mind without her consent, he tells her he can do and take what he wants, he has her bound, and he forces himself into her brain. None of that is sexual and none of it comes across as sexual. Yet, he is raping her mind. He's forcing himself into her mind and seizing information from her without her consent.

    Perhaps the phrase "assaulting her mind" is less insensitive. But, I keep going back to the clip of Daisy Ridley's audition and she's crying while trying to fight him off from probing her mind. So to me, "raping her mind" seemed most apt.


     
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  18. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    People here read that scene in different ways and FWIW I think they're all legitimate.



    The analogies people draw to rape are undeniable (invasion/penetration without consent) as are the differences (non-sexual wartime interrogation by enemy combatants of similar magical ability).

    That Jedi protagonists undertake similar techniques is an important ethical issue that I reckon demands serious debate in the halls of their temples/academies!
     
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  19. Greywalker

    Greywalker Jedi Commander

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    Hmmm. That sounds plausible. And could very well be where they are headed with the story. But for me this could work only if they are brother and sister. And atm...I really dont see that.
    I love the Mortis arc. But...I never got nothing but fraternal wibes from the relationship between the Son and the Daughter. The way the story is was laid out there it was clear to me they are familial. Through actual family relations not just through the Force. Abeloth was their Mother? I dunno much of her story, what do you think? Are mother, father, son and daughter a family only through the Force?

    Well...The deffinitions that pop up after google search on Meriam-Webster and UD1 dont kinda seem appropriate :D

    Allthough...i did manage to find another UD2 deffinition that says pretty much the same as wikipedia. I know the flaws of wikipedia but in this case it is perhaps a better refference source than 'any teenager'. Because, I have been discussing the potential reylo on forums since tfa came out. And I have to say...I never came across any teenagers discussing it. Most deffinitely did not find any 'silly 12 yearolds' which seems to be what everyone who ever declared their opinion against reylo thought main pro-reyloers demographics is. (Not saying you did, am speaking in general :) )
    So i dunno how much, in this case, the opinion of teenagers has gravitas. Unless you are one?

    IMO...Leia already did. Just like Han did. At the end of tfa she is quite calm and serene. Not angry. I think she, just like Han, accepts her part of responsibility for that act. And perhaps she never realized just how much Kylo felt betrayed and abandoned and hurt if she couldnt predict that outcome of the confrontation between the son and the father. I dunno...I think...she still sees the light in Kylo. Cant wait till 8 to find out.
    As of Rey...Kylo did nothing to Rey. And her 'forgivness' on this is unimportant. What is her claim on that family and their relations? She has NONE. The fact she thaught han was her father figure? Why would she thought that? They know eachother for like 15 minutes? Han never treated her as a daughter. And is definitely concerned only for his son in the aftermath of Takodana. No claim IMO. Unless, again, she is kylo's sister. The only people that are involved in the relationship between Kylo, Leia and Han are Kylo, Leia and Han. Perhaps Luke. Cuz he is a family. I just dont see what does Kylo's dealings with his father, as shocking as they are, have anything to do with her dealings with her family. Specially more so if she doesnt KNOW what exactly happened between Kylo and his father in the past.

    Oh lolz...please no...cuz i fear kylo would somehow still be blamed for Luke's conscious decission to sacrifice himself for him. It would be...you know...Kylo is just a bad apple and its his fault...everything, really.
    I dunno what will happen. I have faith in Rian it will be plausible and believable and that all this talk about humanity and hope in 8 is about rendemption and not avoiding own responsibility, blaming escape goat for all the bad in the world and the burning it on the stake.

    All mind probing is then mental rape? Any act of agression can be considered as such?

    I apologize if i made a false presumption. And did not mean to imply that you purposely left out Poe. My exact words were:
    The first part about the light in which i understood you see rey's and kylo's interactions was a presumption made on my understanding of the word 'rape' which is only sexual. So for that I apologize. But about Poe, i did ask a question, not presumed anything :)

    Your subsequent answeres cleared that up for me. :)

    So Rey mentally raped Kylo too?
     
  20. Lady Rey

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    I know the we don't see it sexually, but that's what's thrown in the face of people who ship them, and caused so many pointless fights on both sides.

    J.J was surprised when Daisy did that. She really added to that scene.
     
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