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REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Moral Hazard, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    #ILikeYou :D

    This looks like a perfect place in time to copy paste something i originally wrote in a discussion of that same topic with a fanboy. Lemme edit some stronger words first :p cuz i was mighty angry how can someone be missing the point of the character so badly.
    But...he was basically telling me how kylo ren is unworthy yadda yadda yadda and how reylo is offensive to women yadda yadda yadda (i specially love hearing that argument from a (macho) man cuz it always give me hope that such men must be so in touch with their feminine side so they feel justiffied to talk about what women should/would/could feel :D) and how she kicks his but cuz he underestimated her yadda adda yadda...and how all he really wants to do is to f**k her. Yadda yadda yadda

    So I replied this:
    She is the one that does all the underestimation. Her rash behaviour shows lack of common curtesy and respect a true warior has for their enemy. She doesn't think once for herself but rather accepts what is served for her...never considers how he actually behaves...just what others (and himself) present...that shows lack of empathy towards others that implies arrogance and selfishness as that of an immature child....which she so very much is...she shoots him first in Takodana...she concludes he is a creature based on his outfit. And while kylo threads gently and reaches out to her lonelynes while he is reading her mind and even offers her consolation that she doesn't have too feel lonely cuz he feels it too, she goes straight to his fears when she reads him in an act of aggression and dominance...which she later only emphasizes in their fight. She wants to destroy him, subdue him and embarass him cuz he dared made her feel....she never really sees him. I get that she was not shown all that the audience was shown to have the privy of his true nature, his conflict, but they are force bonded...and should she just get off her high horse and took effort to relate to him she would see who really is, his struggles and his conflict... she is yet unable to see past her pride and self-righteousness, so yes...she is unworth selfish little prick...only thing she is, is powerfull, but not strong, power=/=strength, specially not with women.
    He doesn't want to f**k her. If he did she'd be f***ed while unconscious. Instead, he looks at her as she sleeps. He wants her to like him, to make her see him for who he is, hence demasking. He never wants to hurt her, that's why he holds back when they fight. He admires her and respects her power, that's why he wants to show her the ways of the Force, things that would undoubtedly make her more powerful. He could have killed her many times when he had the upper hand. He chose not to, cuz he appreciates her awesomeness even if he is more awesome (he is a damn Skywalker!). He is infatuated by her, if anything. But he doesn't want to f**k her. He may want to make love to her but would never exert his dominance on her the way she does on him...even the novel says...he has compassion for her, and that weakness will be his downfall...

    I'd go a step further and say that you are projecting your desires into the only charachter that has Rey subdued during tfa (kylo)....It seems to me that you are the one that wants to f**k her...you and all other fanboys, i bet you fantasized of it often. Don't blame ya...she has that stereotype written all about her...they made her that way...innocent and cute but ferocious and powerfull...to play on men's egos and protective inclinations towards fragile beauty...tropes and stereotypes...all of that.


    He later admited I was right in the last thing, so I at least have to give him points up for owning up to it. Most antis hide behind their moral superiority.

    Now...i do not write this to antagonize anyone. This is my personal opinion of the matter discussed and I feel that my experiences with the fandom thus far entitle me to have it after all of the insults thrown my way. When i refer to 'fanboys' and 'macho men' i refer to that special kind of people that have malicious intents towards not only the characters they disapprove but also towards the people who dare have different views on rey and ren's relationship. I do not refer to all who disagree with me. I am a live and let live kind of person and have never trashed someone else's choice of involvement in the SW saga and i firmly believe that people should let people ship what they want to ship and feel what they feel and see what they see in star wars without the need to condenscend or attack them or make them feel bad about their choices. But I expect the same back from other people as well. When that fails, i am live and let die.
    Thnx for listening...rant over :D

    Happy New Year everyone, btw :D
     
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  2. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    It's interesting. Judging from the comments on the Internet, fans are either pushing the idea of a Rey/Ben romance, a Finn/Poe romance, or no romantic interest for Rey. But when it comes to the idea of a Rey/Finn romance, a lot of fans make a big fuss against it. I never realized, until now, the possibility that many STAR WARS fans are not ready to face a possible interracial romance in a Star Wars movie.
     
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  3. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    #ThankYouITry :-D

    ha ha

    I agree. She believes what she is told, all the stories and legends, all the rumors about the FO, although they might as well be lies. But I can't blame her for it. During TFA she doesn't even have time to consider if what she is doing is right, she acts mostly on instinct. Everything happens so fast that she has no choice but to go on based on what she was told. Besides, she grew up alone in a horrible place, chances are the stories about Luke and the Jedi helped her escape reality, gave her hope. So to her, the world is pretty much black and white, the Jedi and the Republic on one side and the FO on the other side. Then suddenly she finds out that Luke is real, that she's part of a bigger story by helping to find him, and gains confidence in herself. She feels like she has something to fight for, that she's one of the good guys. Which explains why she fights so hard to hide the map from Kylo Ren. She doesn't know anything about Luke, but to her he's hope, and hope is all she had for all those years.

    You're being too harsh on Rey :) The way I see it, she handles Kylo Ren better than anyone else. She only shoots at him because she knows he's with the FO and he looks like death incarnate lol Poor girl was terrified. But all her reactions during the interrogation are very reasonable. She's scared, she feels trapped, she's frustrated by her inability to fight his probe, so of course she gets back at him first chance she gets. And that's awesome about her, she FIGHTS BACK :) But even with everything that goes on during the interrogation, it seems to me that she treats Kylo Ren with respect. She calls him a creature, sure, but that was just an attempt to make him reveal his face, and it worked. But she doesn't insult him, doesn't underestimate him, doesn't treat him with contempt, doesn't do anything that would offend him in any way. She's very very careful, all she does is react to his actions. She defies him occasionally, but that's it. She doesn't try to understand him but she has no reason to, and no time to try. Especially at the end of the movie, when she was heartbroken because of HIS actions.
    I see your point, she's been in his head and doesn't seem to care about what she saw. But she had no time to think about it in TFA. I'm sure that will change in SW8. Whatever she saw in his mind can't be easy to process. She needs time, experience with the force, and a better understanding of his past before she can draw any conclusions. I see why you're tough on her, hearing about how Kylo Ren is horrible and 100% evil, again and again and from multiple people, really gets to you if you love the character. You have no choice but to get mad and point out that the other characters have faults too. I wonder if people who keep calling Kylo Ren a monster and a rapist are aware that they're only making his fans despise the other characters.

    And yeah, it's ridiculous to say that he wanted to rape her or something like that. He's attracted to her physically, but he's trying to reach her mind. He does in his own weird, extremely invasive way, but what else can we expect from someone who is THAT deranged? That's the best (so to speak) he could do in his circumstances. He's both selfish and very disturbed, so acting so nice (in lack of a better word) with Rey is a great achievement for someone in his position.

    You might have a point here. Many fans like to envision themselves as these characters. That's probably why many claim that Kylo Ren is weak. They wanted him to be this all-powerful, unbeatable god because that would have made THEM fell unbeatable. Now they're forced to relate to someone who acts human. I have a feeling that people who call Kylo Ren weak are the same who cry when they stub their toes lol And on the other end of the spectrum, people who are pretty much dead inside and don't understand why someone gets angry when their entire life falls apart in front of them. It's both sad and hilarious lol

    There goes the longest post of 2017 (at the moment lol). Happy New Year! :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 1, 2017 ---
    You're talking about white fans possibly being racist against black people, right? Because Finn/Poe would be an interracial romance and fans (according to your first statement) like it. Also, you're implying that potentially bigoted white fans are more racist towards black people than they are homophobic. That's an interesting conclusion given that racism, homophobia and all the other crap usually go hand in hand.
     
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  4. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Reylo needs some background theme music.

    "I've come to fix your faulty moisture vaporator...."

    ;)
     
    #124 SKB, Jan 1, 2017
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  5. Lord Denton

    Lord Denton Rebel Commander

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    While I personally support a Rey/Kylo romance, I don't know if that's actually what will come to pass.
    With or without a romance however, I do have my personal theory that Episode IX will end with both Rey and Kylo uniting to defeat Snoke together.
    I don't believe Kylo will be 'redeemed' in the sense that he will be turned from the Dark, but I do think there will be peace, with him representing the Dark and her the Light, maintaining Balance within the Force together.
     
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  6. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    Ha ha ha this is porn music?? Those must have been some mighty confused times. Just how much did they smoke back then? Something so relaxing for porn..... Doesn't it send a conflicting message?......"Now relax and get excited ...." It's just SO DAMN STUPID! That wasn't porn, it was COMEDY ha ha
     
    #126 Starchaser, Jan 1, 2017
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  7. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    @Dark Cutie, @Starchaser

    hahahaha ~ i see that Bastila/Revan angle, but it's Ren Ben who's got the brunt of the growing up to do here.
    perhaps through their bond she will find compassion for him as learns to appreciate how privileged (and wrong) he is.

    either way, yeah, it ain't gonna happen on their present course. something cataclysmic would have to shift in both of them.
     
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  8. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    #NeverChange

    Thnx...What can I say....I'm funny :D

    True. I see your point. Hopefully she opens her eyes and starts critically observing the world around her cuz the 'good' guys around her aren't that morally light.

    I can. Am allowed to be. Cuz I am a woman, scavenger of sorts (researcher/chemical engineer) living alone and getting by in a cruel cruel sexist world (aka academic comunity) armed with nothing but her principles and work ethics :p That absolves me of sexism towards her. But you know...you never know...cuz just recently I have been labeled as white supremacist while I was arguing FOR diversity, fair representation and equality in SW movies...so never say never, ey :p

    You, on the other hand are too lenient with Rey. Some might interpret that as patronising, a thing men like to do with strong women. 'Poor girl', seriously? :p
    (Sorry..i don't really think that but i could not resist of making that point cuz sometimes...i can really be a sexist...towards men...don't hold it against me please and do not under any circumstances let the word go around it would give leverage to men debating with me :D thnx a bunch ;))

    'Poor girl' lived on Jakku with the likes of Unkar Plutt for most of her life. Terriffied? Please. Excited more like it. But unwilling to face with her feelings.
    And that is specially visible during interigation. Her tears are not there cuz he hurts her physically. I refer to the start when he talks about her loneliness, her dreams and her feelings towards Han solo. He is intrusive not invasive. She cries cuz she feels exposed and can't hide her emotions and vulnerability from him like she does with all other. And she checks him out and notices his atractivness same way he does with her. He only starts pushing harder later, but at that point she is already in his head. If she is reversing what he has previously done to her (mind probe) and if that physically hurts how come his expression is not of pain but astonishment and shame? Btw...how can anyone ckaim that mind probing physically hurts...are such things a reality? This is a fight on the mental plane. A fight she wins. What I like more about it that she fights back is tha fact that she wins while fighting back a man who treats her like an equal in a fight. And that goes for their lightsaber fight as well.

    I like your thoughts on her maturing up in 8 and processing all that happens. Hear hear to character development. Looking forward to it, soecially in her case.

    And I am not tough on her cuz someone else is tough on Kylo and I feel offended. I feel hurt when people show lack of understanding and empathy for the charachter of Kylo Ren. Cuz I relate to him in many ways...And I am tough with Rey for the same reason. I see myself in her in many ways. That's why I dislike when she is being immature and also why I hate making excuses for her behaviour. She should know better.

    They are both attracted to eachother and have no clue what to do with it. Either of them. (Which i find specially funny when countered with serene assurance of the delivery of his line 'you know i can take whatever I want' cuz you know...she proves him he indeed can not just 2 min later..lol...always makes me devilishly smile).
    I don't think he is deranged. And I don't think he is acting nicedness. I think he needs that map and does reluctantly what he needs to get it. He realized that he should have gone for the droid instead but got strangely distracted by what girl and now has to do what he doesn't want to. Least some more planets will be destroyed. He demasks and shows himself to her (a thing he does not do for just anyone, only her and his father...and Snoke but that was not intentional he ran away from her without his mask lol) in hope he will not have to be rough to get it. By the time he realizes he has to she already has the upper hand.
    But still...he has the chance to kill her later in the fight, but doesn't? Offers to teach her. Even if he should be angry cuz she is holding the lightsaber that belongs to him? He is mesmerized by that girl. Dare I say in love :p

    I am Dark Cutie the Wise? :D
    It's more hillarious than sad. Lol.
    But c'est la viƩ..live and let live? But sometimes fight back so that it becomes clear who is morally right :D

    Ditto :)

    #I LikeYouEvenMoreNow ;)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 1, 2017 ---
    Is that from your personal collection? If so, does it mean you don't get around that much? Or at all? :p how can you understand reylo then ;)
     
    #128 Dark Cutie, Jan 1, 2017
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  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    in point of fact, the book makes it clear that there is physical discomfort involved when one resists. it not only says so straight up, but why else would Poe be screaming in the initial interrogation? Ren even seems apologetic to Rey and says he'll try to go easy.

    then there's his infamous "i feel it too" which to me is also about the pressure it causes to intrude on someone's mind.
    and that's what triggers Rey to realize she can push back.

    Hidalgo recently inferred that this is a talent particular to Kylo Ren so far as we know in the Star Wars universe.
    it's likely he does not have finesse with it since there's no one to teach him (that's what he asks Snoke for, but Snoke isn't interested in helping because he knows Ren's compassion is getting in his way).
     
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  10. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi General

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    Good post, and the arguments for Reylo are strong. But I can't get past one thing -

    Rey watched Kylo Ren murder Han Solo, who is the closest thing she has to a father.

    I just can't see that not mattering to her, ever.
     
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  11. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Most of this is your speculation. The fact that Poe screams in pain doesn't mean that there is no way to do a mind probe without pain. It only means it hurts him at that particular mind probing, most probably cuz Kylo wanted him to be hurt.

    Does it say anywhere in the book that she is in physical pain? Cuz when she reverses the thing to kylo he doesn't seam like he is in pain? (I'd argue she doesn't seem in pain either when he is inside her, but having nothining to go by except our own personal interpretations that seems like a mute point at the moment).

    I think that ability can probably be used passively without aggression (similarly to mind reading) and actvely with agression (mind probing). That would make sense to me. I hope we will get many answers in 8. Can't wait :)


    ETA:
    Don't be affraid I feel it to being about mind probing pain? Kylo doesn't look like he is in pain when he interrogates Poe...if it is mutual pain than he kinda would?

    That line is about the energy between them that they feel pass. Isn't that what the novel says?

    Energy? Hmmm of force bond formation perhaps?
     
  12. FN-3263827

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    if Luke and Leia can forgive him, i think Rey can too.
    can she love him? i'm not sure yet. but she can certainly forgive him.
     
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  13. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Closest thing she had to a father after knowing him for what 15 minutes? How has Han Solo formed a strong personal involvement with Rey?
    Cuz she knows of smuggler Han? Cuz he gives her a gun? Cuz he tells her Chewie likes her?
    Dunno. I think she was more apalled by the fact that he (kylo) is a person who is capable of killing his father...the act of patricide being the appalling thing....but is most probably both.

    Why wouldn't she be able to get past that. If Han was able to forgive his son?

    We'll see. Christmas 2018 can't come soon enough :D
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    the book uses words to suggest that the probe is painful to resist. i dunno there's any point in debating whether physical or emotional/psychological pain makes a difference here. i'm not going to minimize what amounts to even light torture.
    and we don't know what Ren feels/thinks while interrogating Poe. he's wearing a mask.
    we only have his body language to go by.

    though i did say i was speculating about the "i feel it too". at least i meant to imply that by say "to me" this is what it means.

    i'm not saying it's like agonizing Force lightning or something--it's just unpleasant--it's intrusive and appears to be intimate in a way that makes them both uncomfortable. and yes, probably for Poe especially so since Ren wasn't bothering to pull his punches.
     
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  15. Pobody's Nerfect

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    How? By flying to Starkiller Base to rescue her. By offering her a life somewhere other than Jakku. By recognizing and appreciating her talents. Don't forget Han Solo died on a mission to rescue Rey.

    It's not the length of time of their relationship, it's the fact that Han cared enough to offer her a home, a job, and eventually, offer his own life during a mission to save her.
     
    #135 Pobody's Nerfect, Jan 1, 2017
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  16. Lord Denton

    Lord Denton Rebel Commander

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    Christmas 2017
     
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  17. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Han Solo did not go on SKB to rescue Rey. He went there to disable the shields and bring back his son.
    And he did not die on a mission to rescue her. He died on a mission of disabling the shields and retrieving his son. Getting Rey was Finn's idea. Chewie says so and I believe him. Chewie never lies :p

    The points about appreciating her talents and offering her a job stand. But do not hold to testify why would she be feeling daughterly with him. Would you have such deep emmotions for your boss? Could get you in trouble that line if thinking.

    Time is important for forming deep relationships. At least it is on a time scale of 15 minutes.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 1, 2017 ---
    Ep. 9 release date is stil christmas 2018? I don't think we will get all the story in 8 :)
     
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  18. FN-3263827

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    Han's priorities going to Starkiller Base:
    1. destroy the oscillator to destroy the weapon.
    2. rescue his son.
    3. rescue Rey.
    Han didn't die for Rey. he died for Ben. if Rey knows Ren is Han's son, she understands that too.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 1, 2017 ---
    hahaha ~ you said it all before me. my dang refresh is so lame.

    more to the point, Han was never really that concerned about Rey. whether this is because he didn't want to conscience his son hurting her or knew he wouldn't/couldn't is uncertain. in the book he's relieved to see Rey (so perhaps he feared a little for her), but she's not his priority by any means.
     
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  19. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    @FN-3263827
    Lol. Agreed. The best proof for hat is when Finn is running across the remains of Maz's castle screaming after her realizing she is lost for ever to the tall dark and handsome masked Knight then running over to daddy Han for help and Han dismisses him with disinterested I know I know. He cared 'that' much. He was more interested in his son as he should be. It's his son. The protagonist (anti)hero of the ST. Skywalkers are always the central characters in the saga. Kenobis are close second :p
     
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  20. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    hahaha ~ it's so true! that's such a great moment. nothing else matters to him except having to process seeing Ben like that.
    we don't even know yet how he knows it's him. Han even tries so hard to rationalize and write him off--even with Leia, but he just can't.
     
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