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SPECULATION Rey's lineage and the end of the Skywalker saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Protocol Droid, Nov 12, 2017.

?

What does the announcement of RJ's new trilogy mean for the Skywalker saga, & Rey's lineage?

  1. Ep IX will be the last Skywalker saga film, & the end of the Skywalker bloodline (Rey Nobody)

    35 vote(s)
    41.7%
  2. Ep IX will be the last Skywalker saga film, but the Skywalker bloodline will live on (Rey Skywalker)

    18 vote(s)
    21.4%
  3. There will be another Skywalker trilogy, w/ Rey carrying on the Skywalker bloodline (Rey Skywalker)

    16 vote(s)
    19.0%
  4. There will be another Skywalker trilogy, w/ Rey carrying on the Skywalker spirit (Rey Nobody)

    13 vote(s)
    15.5%
  5. Ep IX may or may not be the last Skywalker trilogy; either way, Rey is a Kenobi

    7 vote(s)
    8.3%
  6. Ep IX may or may not be the last Skywalker trilogy; either way, Rey's lineage is from the dark side

    4 vote(s)
    4.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. dewi

    dewi Rebel Official

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    Can we fathom another Skywalker baby being born, having strong powers, needs to be trained in the Jedi arts but never never really balancing The Force, or worse; turning to evil.

    Kids of today don't know what a Skywalker is. I think end the family story, and begin a new adventure!
     
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  2. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    In all truth I never expected a new Trilogy with the new characters before a 10/15 years time gap after IX.
    That regardlees of the end game.
    Meanging that if it'll come, it may be Ep IX or Star Wars Volume II: ep. I (or IV).
    In the latter case the first saga, will always be the Skywalker Saga.
    The volume II, may be or not. It may have Rey and comp. or not.

    However, as said, just because Rey may be Luke's child, then by logic he may have had
    child X (not Rey) whenever the storytellers want. And we may have already met him/her or not.
     
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  3. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    For one, Leia was a part of R1 albeit very small and Luke wasn't even on the scene at that point, so that argument makes no sense.

    As for the rest, if they wanted to make a trilogy based on a small localised event then yes I agree they absolutely could do that without the ST heroes. However if they wanted a galactic conflict then of course the already established characters would have to be involved somehow or their absence would need to be explained.

    That timeline/generation is the Skywalker 'sandbox' and for me it is a no go for a future trilogy which intends to use an entirely new cast. It makes no sense. Set it in a different timeline altogether where any actions/events/consequences arent so closely tied in with the original saga.
     
    #103 TheGreyandTheRed, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Reposting this on the off chance that someone might actually at least show the courtesy of answering one of my questions after I spend time answering theirs...
     
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  5. Snazel

    Snazel Rebel Official

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    You have a very risk averse and massive corporation at the helm. You have Kathleen Kennedy who has always understood this brand, as an actual brand not a treasured piece of art. That's not the worst thing to have stewarding a franchise like Star Wars and I think we need to call out Kathleen Kennedy, she's managed Star Wars well these last few years, a monumental task to say the very least.

    It's obvious to me Disney wants more liberty to tell all kinds of stories in Star Wars universe. If you can have 2 or 3 Marvel films a year, why not 2 or 3 Star Wars films? How do you turn Star Wars into a "factory", where characters, groups of characters and new iconic ships and locations can be injected to broaden the palette and canvas with which Kathleen can guide the brand?

    One way is to break out of the "dark vs. light" Skywalker saga. The more you break loose of the narrow moral compass Lucas set for Star Wars, the easier it becomes to tell stories with more moral ambiguity, a richer, diverse set of characters and perhaps more importantly you can broaden the theme and mood of the franchise as a whole. Try taking the Skywalker saga and then make a funny, campy romp like Thor: Ragnarok. It won't work. Take a group of secondary characters, thrust them far out on the Outer Rim, put them in strange cantinas and weird, wild locations and suddenly a campier Star Wars can totally work. Similarly, a very dark, deeply epic Star Wars, can also be rendered.

    I'll also say this, I think the Rian Johnson announcements seems to indicate a few key things:

    1. They liked what Rian Johnson did and he clearly works well with Kathleen. You have to work well with Kathleen. For better or worse (more for the better) she is final authority on all things Star Wars.

    2. They want to take Star Wars to a place where things are grittier, less morally contrasted and far more shady in narrative. Those of you who love cumbersome, pedantic plots with excruciating twists and turns will be pleased. Disney has noticed nerds love massive details and intrigue and so those of you who are dying to see links to Thrawn or other characters are going to get your wish. I say this because this seems to be the kind of stories Rian likes to tell. The breezy, light, "explain nothing just keep moving" narrative style of JJ Abrams is not what we are getting with the new trilogy.

    3. The Skywalker saga is not over. In fact, I'd say the announcement there will be an Episode X is not far off and I believe Abrams is making some effort to bring some of the loose ends after Episode VIII to some conclusion, but trust me, there will be enough unanswered questions about Ben and Rey to keep Disney's options open. A film franchise that frequently tops 1 billion in revenue will always, always be given more oxygen.

    I think what we are seeing is a lot of "fan service" films outside the main trilogy. Films that appeal to those who loved Rogue One (I despised Rogue One for the record). Fans who love the fact the Rebellion and Resistance and now being painted as morally ambiguous and at times, downright evil (assassins, secret plots and back stabbing leadership), are going to be pleased.

    I don't think Rey's lineage gets cleared up in VIII, we'll get more hints, some general questions are cleared, but who she really is, has become the core mystery of this trilogy and Disney has no financial incentive to clear up those questions in this film. And as we all know JJ Abrams loves scripts that asks all kinds of questions, but never answers them, so I am even unsure Episode IX will clear up all of Rey's mystery.

    And one more thing, I wager "Solo" is the last of the pre-OT era films we get. I think Disney realizes that films that show "what happens next" are much more beloved that those that document "what came before". There will be no Kenobi film and I doubt we'll ever see Solo 2.
     
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  6. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Not in the sense that shitain is saying they would have. He specifically said the Skywalkers would have to be called in to help fight the villains/save everyone. Didn't happen. And Luke was sitting there on Tatoonie. All they had to do was pick him up.

    Again, did they have to explain why Ironman didn't hsow up Winter Soldier?
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2017 ---
    This was answered, just with a question - "And would that first question completely ruin the movies for you, be the only thing you ever thought about, make it so you can't connect with the new characters they did create etc.....?"

    But no, it wouldn't be a question that bothers people just like going into Rogue One (before evryone say it) no one was saying "but wheres Han, he could help them with his really fast ship" or "How come Leia isn't playing a role in stealing the plans" etc.... Just how it doesn't bother anyone going to a Marvel or DC movie. Just like it didn't bother people that Dumbledore wasn't in Fantastic Beasts. Just like it hasn't bother comic book readers in almost 100 years. You're the only one who seems to be really bothered by the idea that while Hero X is over here doing something that Rey Skywalker could be over there doing something else that we don't see or know about (or maybe we're reading about it.......)

    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2017 ---
    1) I think its more that he is one of two directors Kennedy can work with but......

    2) I dont' think they want gritter. They re-shot a lot of Rogue One because it wasn't "Star Wars" enough.

    3) I agree its not over, they'd be stupid to definitively end it when they don't have too. But I wouldn't bet on Episode X being announced for at least a few years after Episode IX.
     
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  7. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    'Pick him up?' Have you actually watched SW? at that time Luke was a nobody, just a moisture farmer. He would of been about as much use as a condom machine in the Vatican. And who at that time was aware of his existence/importance apart from obi wan?

    Your argument has nearly as many holes as the Rey Solo theory.

    You can't compare the marvel universe either, its apples and oranges it doesn't work as an analogy because they were originally all separate entities brought together by the avengers initiative. They weren't a collective to begin with so no one questions when one is missing. Totally different scenario.

    If however you were to set a film in the DC universe where Batman and Robin were partners. The main antagonist (say Joker) stirs up a mighty sh*t storm and then only Robin turns up to stop him, the whole audience will be screaming; "where the f**k is batman?

    That's a more accurate analogy and one which fits the logic of the scenario.
     
    #107 TheGreyandTheRed, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  8. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    but he's a Skywalker that exists at that time - he MUST be involved and he MUST save the day. (now, of course I'm being silly, I'm using Shitain's argument - of course it would make no sense for the Rogue One crew to go pick up Luke - just like it would make no sense for people who know Rey (for sake of argument), have never heard of her, who have no way of contacting her or knowing where she is, who are busy dealing with their own problems to go get her to solve their problems).

    Of course I can compare it - there are two shared universe's with characters of varying power levels. Why wouldn't Cap. call in Ironman and Thor to take out hte Shield carriers?

    In regards to your DC example - why are Rian's brand new characters to Rey as Robin is to Batman? Do they know her? Have their trained with her? Have they lived with her? Do they know her personally and very well?
     
  9. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    Its pointless discussing this further. If you think its OK to set the new trilogy in the current timeline and not involve the already established characters that's fine. It won't happen so I don't have to worry about it.

    Your entitled to your opinion. I've disagreed and I'm not going to change my mind. So agree to disagree.
     
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  10. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Please explain how a story about new characters we've never seen or met, from a different part of the galaxy would HAVE to include characters with no connection the new characters?

    You are basically saying Han Solo HAD to be included in Rogue One yet.........
     
  11. Snazel

    Snazel Rebel Official

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    Think of Star Wars as a multi-billion dollar franchise and less like a cinematic universe you've come to love and adore. You have to remove emotion from the equation here and think: "How can Disney maximize it's investment in Star Wars? What will make the shareholders happy to hear? And what will make the box office explode?"

    These questions are much more difficult than we fans realize, the decisions must be far more risk averse than we fans would care to admit. It's no easy feat to navigate something where wrong decisions can cost a corporation hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Rian Johnson's nomination to steward the new trilogy is a clear sign TLJ was warmly received in the corporation that Rian and Kathleen are comfortable working together. This is good news, as I said before, Kathleen deserves far more praise from many fans out there than she gets. She is a savior of this brand and we fans owe her a great debt and must recognize she's turned the brand around from "dead as a door nail" to the "most coveted movie franchise in the world again".

    If you examine the new trilogy as a brand move, to me, it's seems more likely that the new trilogy will include and augment the setting established in the current sequel trilogy, BUT also far enough removed from it, there is significant license to change the mood and style of the films. And ultimately, I believe the new trilogy will service fans much more and build bridges to the TV series as well include occasional appearances by characters introduced in the sequel trilogy. After all, action figures sell, so if you can find reasons to include an Admiral Ackbar cameo, the toy companies and shareholders cheer.

    We fans, (myself included) put too much emotion into these debates. In the end, the brand is managed through an algorithm that prioritizes corporate gain and shareholder appeasement. That doesn't mean it can't be great art too, it just means that when predicting the future, consider what you as a Disney shareholder would prefer over you as a Star Wars fan would prefer and you'll usually get a more accurate guess.

    The stories won't center around a Skywalker, but if you have cinematic assets like Chewbacca, Yoda's ghost, storm troopers, tie fighters not to mention Foe, Finn, Ren and Rey, you're going to use them. You may want to reinvent the wheel in terms of style and narrative arc, but you gain too much support from Hasbro and other licensees by including recognizable characters and vehicles to not use them.
     
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  12. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    Yet again Han Solo was not known when RO was set. RO WAS SET BEFORE ANH!!! those characters stories hadn't started yet! Revise the timeline.
     
  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    You just don't get this, do you?
    No, Han Solo doesn't have to be in Rogue One.
    But Vader's presence in the galaxy has to be explained...oh and look - it is!
     
  14. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    But Han existed, he was out doing stuff while the Rogue One guys were. So by your logic he HAD to intrude in that story.

    Now you're right, the Rogue One characters have no real reason to know Han, so why would they call on him. So why would the new characters know Rey? Do comm links just come with her number programmed into the speed dial? Just in case
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2017 ---

    YOu said they had to literally be there and be involved - yet in Rogue One..........

    Not that something they created might still exist - which is a silly line to draw since there could never be a story post Episode IX.

    When you can't keep your position straight or consistent, you're wrong.
     
  15. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    Sort of glad I jumped out of this debate when I did, because it seems it’s gone in circles a few times (even if some credible points have been brought up in that time).

    I think it’s worth bringing up the closing lines of The Clone Wars when talking about the possibility of the Skywalker Saga (i.e. revolving around the story of Anakin and his descendants) ending after IX.

    To give this some context: Yoda just found out that there is/will be another Skywalker.

    Yoda says:
    Yet open to us, a path remains, that unknown to the Sith is. Through this path, victory, we may yet find. Not victory in the Clone Wars, but victory for all time.

    Given the context of the situation, I think that we can pretty safely assume that Yoda is referring to the other Skywalker - Luke - as the path to victory.

    Now, whilst some might go “Well hey, Julius, couldn’t Yoda be referring to a victory for all time against the Sith?”, I actually think we have a strong reason to believe, given the context and how it is worded, that Yoda is speaking of a timeless and all-encompassing victory, not just against the Sith, but against the Dark Side as a whole.

    And if the path to that victory is that there is another Skywalker waiting in the wings, as Yoda seems to be heavily implying, is Luke? Then I think we’ll see Luke be the one who ultimately brings about this timeless and all-encompassing victory against the Dark Side.

    On a side note: this is the final episode of The Clone Wars and was released in March 2014, nearly six months after the acquisition of Lucasfilm by Disney, and is very much the final piece of work put out with direct influence from George Lucas himself.
     
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  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    @Canadian Ronin Are you honestly saying that if the ST didn't include the Skywalker's but was set within their lifetime, you wouldn't question where they were when the galaxy was at stake?

    Don't buy that.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2017 ---
    FFs, this is tedious. Vader is in RO. It is about the Death Star. We are explicitly shown two Skywalker's and see what they're up to. Are you blind?

    Try again.
     
  17. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    No, just like I can enjoy Winter Soldier without wondering where Tony Stark is. I can enjoy Fantastic Beast's without wondering were Dumbledore is. I can read a Batman comic without screaming "just call Superman". I can watch Rogue One without wondering why they dont' get Han to smuggle them onto Jedha. I could watch DS9 without thinking "Why doesn't Sisko call Picard to help him"? I'm watching someone else's story. If you're imcapable of grasping a bigger world in these brands and understanding that many stories can be told at the same time and they don't HAVE to include the characters from another.........I feel a little sorry for you. So many cool and interesting brands and properties are just closed off to you.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2017 ---
    Ok - lets go step by step. Why didn't Jyn and Casian call Han Solo to help them out during Rogue One?
     
  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Try reading my posts again and see what I said about standalone being possible. Epic trilogies that don't include or explain Skywalker's in heir lifetime doesn't work. Big events in the gffa will always include the Skywalker's.
     
  19. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Rebel Official

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    Well, I mean, Luke wasn’t even aware that he was Force-sensitive at this point, nor had he taken a single step towards become a galaxy-saving hero?

    Why pick Han over the millions, if not billions, of other smugglers in the galaxy? He’s not a Skywalker in the first place, though...

    As for Leia: she does get involved, albeit at the very end of the movie, but even then, she had no idea that she was slightly Force-sensitive or a Skywalker, so why would she even attempt to save the day?

    :confused:
     
  20. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    Ok - lets go step by step. Why didn't Jyn and Casian call Han, Luke or Leia to help them out during Rogue One?
     
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