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Rey's sacred Jedi texts

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Trevor, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    For what it's worth, I think it would be fascinating if we at least learn a little bit from those books.

    It would also be an effective segue into another era, assuming that's happening soon.
     
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  2. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Agreed, I think the philosophical history and how it changed and evolved (or devolved) that might potentially be written in those texts would lend to some interesting insight to how the Jedi viewed the Force as time passed...and how Rey might "wear" being a Jedi.
     
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  3. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    One of the things that made me think in TLJ was the way Luke talked of the Jedi. This along with the Jedi Prime figure leads me to the following: The original Jedi and the Jedi at the time of the PT and for sometime before are very different. The Jedi Prime interestingly shows a yin and yang sort of image. In discussions about TLJ and Rey training people talk about how long the Jedi trained. From very young age until young adult. The thing is are they learning how to use the force or more the rules of the Jedi order. There is a difference. So in some ways Luke wasnt the Last Jedi. The Last Jedi was Yoda. Luke never learned the ways of the Jedi Order or at least not fully. When he goes off to die on Ach-To he learns more about the early Jedi. This is what the ancient texts will show. It will show information the well modern Jedi order held on to and also forgotten ideas and concepts. Ideas and concepts that made Luke feel that the modern Jedi order needed to end.

    I also believe by the way this may be the focus of the Rian Johnson trilogy. Imagine going back to a time when the Jedi order accepted all facets of the Force, dark and light, yin and yang and the concept was in balance. The trilogy depicts the break up where the Jedi splints into 2 groups. 1 group becoming the modern Jedi Order focusing on the light and controlling the light force. 1 group focusing on the dark and controlling the dark forces and this group becomes the Sith.
     
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  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Imagine an Avengers style movie, but with the force ghosts of Anakin, Yoda, Obi-Wan Ezra, Ahoska and The Ghost Crew. :p
     
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  5. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    Hardcore fans tend to obsess on objects and insist they have more meaning than they do. A crystal necklace in a trailer gets discussed by Mike Zeroh in five different videos, (I think mostly so he can say, "Khyber Crystals" and sound like a well-experienced Star Wars fan).

    Remember when the threads about Rey's staff before TFA came out and how it had "Sith-like" design? Or the ring that Snoke was wearing and what it all meant? Or the ridiculous analysis on Kylo's saber after the first trailer? It's endless debate about its significance and "impractical" design?

    (NOTE: Please think twice before debating the "practicality" of a space laser sword. Like complaining that avocados make lousy office furniture.

    The "sacred texts" were just a device to illustrate that the Jedi's old ways failed the galaxy and a new generation must use the gift of the Force with greater wisdom. It's meant to illustrate the stupidity of the Jedi during the prequels (and the subtle insinuation that it was Yoda who screwed up most, which of course is so very true if you watch the prequels). They are symbol that sparks dialog about why the Jedi failed and how the interpretation of the Force has to evolve, or tyranny will win.

    Now that they belong to Rey I wager we never hear about them at all in IX. They've served their literary purpose and don't have a lot of "narrative juice" in them.

    Objects don't matter much in Star Wars, even as a McGuffin for a film,, they rarely turn out to be important (see Luke's ditching of light saber after it takes an entire film to bring it to him). Characters matter, thematic and highly contrasted moral struggle matter, a sense of fun and escape matters, but the tired McGuffin super hero plots of "collect all six rainbow gemstones and win a fabulous prize of galactic rule" are great for comic books, maybe even a Star Wars cartoon, but they can't sustain an actual Star Wars film.

    That's because Star Wars is about people struggling to be free and understand the energy of the universe they live in. The books don't provide any real illumination on that point, they've already served their purpose, which was, apparently for Yoda to admit that he screwed up pretty badly in Episodes I to III. :)
     
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  6. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Well, I don't know but Rey light up when she realised it was the Falcon.
     
  7. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    The Jedi Order not only failed in the Prequel movies, Yoda and especially Obi-Wan failed during the Original films. And am I to assume that Luke had failed in this trilogy? And besides, even if Rey becomes a Jedi, there is a chance that she will eventually fail in her own way. I doubt that any one individual will ever achieve supreme wisdom from the Force. Sentient beings are too flawed and always capable of screwing up one way or the other.

    And if those books aren't the perfect device to learn about the Force, from whom is she going to learn? On her own? That won't work. She needs a mentor . . . even if that mentor is a flawed being, Rey needs hands on training from a mentor. She'll never really learn anything or grow without one. Sure, it's possible that she'll regress or make mistakes. Everyone experiences that. But in the end, Rey needs a mentor. Perhaps Luke, as a Force ghost, can finally be one for her in "Episode IX". If J.J. Abrams had any sense.
     
  8. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Luke trained himself between 4-5 and 5-6. He went on to become one of the most powerful jedi ever.
     
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  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I'm curious how much Yoda has been around over the last 30 years. Yoda says he misses Luke, but that could just be the last five years. It doesn't seem like Luke really was invested that much in passing on what he had learned. Had he trained anyone before taking on Ben?
     
  10. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Maybe a new animated series will tell us that! :)

    On a related side note (bear with me here): It is absolutely no mystery that Ahsoka Tano is Filoni's favorite pet project...like one of his own children. NOW, as we've seen repeatedly, Filoni has refused to just kill her off....WHY?? (Answer: Because she's going to serve a purpose in the future...on a screen either large or small.)

    In the larger picture (envisioning the story group around the table) I'm imagining that the future of SW media (future movies and animated series specifically) are well planned out, or at least outlined with rough plots and (I'm imagining) a year or more ago, someone turned to Dave and said "Hey don't kill her off...we're not finished with her yet."...thus, we are here.

    With that being said, If Ahsoka (in her travels) had ever happened on any of these texts, it seems obvious to me that she'd have kept it, even as nothing more than an antique, or even a memento of a different time, BUT to her, it might be something that she would feel the need to pass on to someone that would benefit from it...like a family heirloom....and when she found out that Anakin Skywalkers newly revealed son was the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy and was responsible for the downfall of the Emperor....he'd be the prime recipient.

    "Hello Luke Skywalker, my name is Ahsoka Tano, and I was your fathers Padawan learner. This book belongs to you, and I have a story to tell you about the past..." Which could easily be one of the prime reasons that Luke believes that the Jedi needed to end ultimately...he heard the Jedi story, heard about their failings, and topped off with his own perceived failings decided to throw in the towel.

    FG Luke: Rey, Let me tell you a story that my fathers Padawan told me many years ago. Her name was Ahsoka Tano...she gave me that book, and told me of the failings of the Jedi that was caused by the misinterprentation of those very words that you read now. You must seek her out...she still lives."

    :)
     
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  11. Dark-Porkins

    Dark-Porkins Rebel Trooper

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    Page turners, they were not!
     
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  12. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    That sounds really good and I'll buy it, but that would be a tough sell for the casuals that didn't watch TCW because she was never shown or even mention in Episode 3 (hardcore fans knows why, but the casuals wouldn't) much less any hint that Anikan even had a padawan in the first place.
     
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I would love a Luke Skywalker stand alone film that takes place 5-10 years after RotJ. That would be the only film I could see interact with Ahsoka. The two would be on very different paths. Ahsoka walked away from the Jedi Order and Luke is looking for artifacts. It would be interesting to see what their interaction would be like and I can envision that Ahsoka's thoughts about the Jedi Order could plant seeds in Luke's mind that could influence his ideas on the Jedi later on in his life.

    It could also set up some things in the unknown regions of space that could be explored in on other films.
     
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  14. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Yep, kind of what I was getting at above, and you defined it here...perfect!
     
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  15. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi General

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    I think the same way. In fact, I suspect there isn't a Light Side and a Dark Side - there is only the Force.

    The problem with the Sith is they focused only on negative emotions. There was no compassion in them so they became slaves to their basest impulses.

    The problem with the Jedi was they denied their emotions entirely. You know you're messed up when you won't train a boy because he loves his mother. All through the first six movies the Jedi were telling Luke and Anakin to suppress their emotions, to bury them deep down, to feel nothing but the Force. In other words, to deny their humanity. The Jedi became slaves to their dogma, the Jedi Code.

    Imagine a Force user who channels the noblest emotions into the Force. Imagine that instead of denying love Anakin had been allowed to unleash its awesome power, the same way the Sith unleash their anger through the Force.

    Remember that Luke won not by being a better swordsman than Vader. He won because he refused to fight. Yoda and Obi Wan recruited him to be an assassin, to kill Vader, but when the time came Luke flat out refused. Instead he saw the good in his father and challenged him to see the good in himself. And that was enough to overthrow the Empire. Luke won not because of what he learned from Yoda and Obi Wan, but despite it. He won by feeling the very emotions the Jedi wanted him to suppress.

    No wonder he tossed away his lightsaber at the beginning of TLJ. He tossed it away at the end of Jedi. It would have been a step backwards for him to take it up again.

    Luke understood that the religious war between the Jedi and the Sith had killed millions. I think he understood the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi or the Sith, it is so much bigger than either side's dogma. And I think when he said it was time for the Jedi to end, he wasn't calling for an end to the Force, just to those who use it as a weapon in a religious war against their rival faction.
     
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  16. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    The Jedi texts are important because they will give her an understanding of the good parts and the flaws of the old Jedi. This is important. Luke failed to pass on the failures and that was where he failed. Yoda is so correct when he says “The greatest teacher failure is.” She can learn just as much from the failures of the past Jedi as she can the successes.
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    This is a pretty nice lesson for fandom over the last two years. These films aren't mysteries that can be unlocked. There were people who were obsessed over Leia's ring being a clue that Rey was her daughter. Really. Star Wars is fun to speculate about, but I think some people took it too far. When their overthinking of the film turned out to be wrong then it led to disappointment for some people. My only prerequisite is a competently told story. Star Wars isn't Hamlet. It doesn't have to be. It's supposed to be an entertaining adventure.
     
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  18. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    Yes I really hope actually she won't go down the way of creating an order, for then she is totally blowing off what Luke was trying to teach her in the first place. and I totally want her to freak out the first time she sees a force ghost, I even wrote a moment like that in a fan fiction of mine. I think Mark and Daisy could have a really good moment there
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2018 ---
    I do agree complete and feel sometimes it is actually hurting the fanbase a little. but that could just be me. don't get me wrong I love to speculate, but I also am very careful not to get my heart set on any outcome
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2018 ---
    Dude I couldn't have written this better myself!!!! kudos!
     
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