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Rey's vision and the reveal in Episode 8

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by MarsPhoenix, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

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    I have re-watched the scene where Rey experiences visions from The Force.

    Over...and over...and over again, and then it became clear to me what it means:

    The Blue Saber was Anakin and Luke Skywalker's saber.
    Luke was betrayed by his nephew and student Ben Solo.
    Ben, with the help of the Knights of Ren destroyed whoever was with Luke, or under Luke's protection.
    Under Luke's protection were Rey (as a baby or very young)...and probably her parents (or one of her parents)
    The Knights of Ren kills everyone, leaving Rey the sole survivor of the massacre.
    When one of the Knights of Ren goes into killing the last survivor (Rey), Kylo Ren kills the Knight, saving and sparing Rey.

    The Knights of Ren & Kylo abandon Rey on Jakku, thinking she would just never escape the planet and-or become a threat. She is placed under surveillance of Unkar Plutt.

    So the reveal is that Kylo already met with Rey and saved-spared her life.
    Rey is the embodiment of the "good" that persists in Ben Solo.
    For the same reason why Darth Vader couldn't kill Luke.
    Rey could be the key of his redemption at the end.
     
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  2. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Huh, it's a nice thought, and it's certainly possible.

    Though, I must point out: the person who attacked - or was about to attack, should I say - Rey in that Forceback vision likely wasn't a member of the Knights of Ren, my reasoning being that the group that were likely predecessors to the Knights - the Acolytes of the Beyond - have been demonstrated to have a fixation on building/wearing masks (Aftermath) as some means to an end yet to be revealed to us. Another thing is that the representation of the Knights in the Forceback, and in other materials such as The Art of TFA, seems to be a strong and specific callback to Kurosawa's Seven Samurai in that there are seven Knights of Ren depicted (including Kylo), all wearing their helmets.

    The rest of the theory seems pretty good in my opinion (though here Rey would be older than when she was left on Jakku...so has she not been there for a solid 13 years?), i wouldn't be surprised at all if she has some sort of history with Kylo.
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Doesn't fit into the time line. Rey had been abandoned on Jakku before Ben Solo turned to the dark side.
     
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  4. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    While this seems to be the general opinion, and one I agree with, I don't think we can treat it as fact. From Bloodline all we know is that Leia sent Ben away, not Han - or was that said elsewhere? - and he's been gone a long time, with the implied trigger being the reveal that his grandfather is Vader over the Holonet. Other than that, I don't think we know enough about the 10/15 years before TFA to say that for sure, and if I recall correctly, Leia attempts to contact Luke and Ben but is unable to do so, meaning things could have already gone bad. Leia says also that Snoke is the one that seduced Ben to the dark side, so it seems likely that that seduction was taking place before Vader's true identity as the father of Luke and Leia was revealed.

    Heck, he could have already turned at that point, or perhaps this was indeed the trigger: we just don't know enough about the timeline yet to say for sure. His hatred for his father (and mother?) suggests he left with Luke rather early on, as opposed to being 20 or so, but that seems to be it.
     
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  5. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    This has always been my preference, although there certainly are potential timeline issues. Can they be fixed?
    Rey had been abandoned on Jakku before Ben Solo knowingly* turned to the dark side.

    * Yes, fixed. :D
     
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  6. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Rey was left on Jakku at least 8 years before the massacre.
     
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  7. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    ...no she wasn't. If the massacre, as many believe, took place in 28 ABY (6 years before TFA, just after Bloodline's events), this would mean that Rey would have been 5 if left 8 years before the massacre. Obviously we have nothing official to go derive info from, but she certainly looks older than 5 to me.
     
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  8. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    JJ said she was 5. I think Daisy said that too. Even if that was changed the girl looks no older than 7 or 8 so her being left still doesn't tie in with the massacre.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2017 ---
    Daisy says it here: https://entertainment.inquirer.net/185349/force-awakens-stars-reveal-interesting-details
     
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  9. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Huh, that's cool. But still, you said "at least 8 years", which would mean less than five ;)

    I'd still take that with a grain of salt until Pablo says something to confirm, though. It'll definitely be in that ballpark I'm sure, but the statement that Rey is in her "late teens, early twenties" makes me think that Daisy wasn't given exact ages on set, which isn't surprising at all.
     
  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I've never been great at math.


    Sure. It could be off a bit. But the massacre definitely happened after she was left.
     
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  11. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Don't sweat it, and yes, absolutely! Almost feel like a Sith, that seemed so absolute...
     
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  12. Alaskan Nerfherder

    Alaskan Nerfherder Rebel Official

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    Where does Kenobi fit in then. He is clearly talking to her in that vision. Why him? I think Kenobi will also play a big part in the upcoming storyline.
    I'm sure he and Luke have had many conversations, and if Kenobi spoke to Rey in her vision he could also have been keeping Luke informed on what's going on.
    I'm pretty sure he was expecting Rey to show up at some point.
     
  13. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Bloodline is 6 years before TFA. As far as Leia knows, Ben is with Luke and I think she would have heard about it by that point, if it had happened, even if she wasn't in contact with them. Rey would be around 13 years old at that point.
     
  14. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I thought JJ said in the Blu-ray that Kylo and Rey have never met
     
  15. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    But maybe Rey and Ben Solo have... JJ is shifty like that.
     
  16. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    My theory on this is that it is an echo through the Force of what Kenobi said to Luke on the Falcon in ANH. Ah, but that was Alec Guinness not McGregor you say! I think there is a chance that in regard to the Force Ghosts they are presenting the idea that they are changeable, that they don't exist within the Force in one rigid physical form. That would explain the whole Hayden Christensen Force ghost at the end of ROTJ. The energy they leave behind simply transforms. I could be well off with that. I mean, it could just be JJ playing around a bit and creating something more abstract.

    I just don't buy the whole Kenobi involvement, personally.
     
  17. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Lately that's becoming my guess too.
    Especially becouse she hears not only Obi Wan, but also Yoda. So if the voices of those characters are there not just to please fan, but becouse it has a sense in the story their building, the two of them must be equally involved a that could be an explanation.
    However, if so, other questions would reamain open.
    It's any force sentive energy that may trasform or only their?
    Different answer different possible plot lines...
     
  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I think we're beginning to maybe witness the expansion of the Force. I think that we can see (and have seen) that Force energy from people and events can imbue places and objects: cave on Dagobah, Force trees, Leia sensing Maul and perhaps Anakin's saber. I think that the energy of the Jedi however, that for a time is evident as force ghosts (I don't think they can hang around in that form forever) can exist in other ways. I think that is the ultimate power, influence beyond death. So although Kenobi and Yoda for example cannot return in spectral form anymore, their energy/consciousness can and it can take many forms.

    Maybe.
     
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  19. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Well, since you're saying those things I'll add something I saved before...
    I'm also starting to think that the "Awakening" has not to do only with Rey.
    It may be related to other characters too.
    Of course he's special, particularly gifted. Whatever the meaning of her visions are, her destiny seems to be to become a very powerful jedi.
    But I'm not so sure Poe and Finn are "ordinary" heroes.
    There are tons of theories you all are probably aware of, so I won't go to much into them to avoid OT.
    I'll just say they may be "special" in the Force without being destined to become Jedi.
    In the end, I agree it's possible what we are witnessing it's a kind of "light side" comspiracy, involving new places and objects (as you said) and people with different powers, abilities and awareness of their roles in this masterplain.
     
  20. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

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    I watched The Force Awakens...and the original Star Wars (including the prequels) too many times.

    We have the conception that the Force manifests itself ONLY when channeled through a Jedi or a Sith... but the Force actually manifests itself all the time, to many characters and influences the course of the story.

    In TFA, that scene where Kylo leaves Jakku and turns his head towards Finn before entering his ship...and later on KNOWING that he was the soldier that betrayed the First Order is a clear sign that the Force was there to influence Finn... to guide him in saving Poe and to mysteriously find Rey and BB-8...and ultimately face Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel. It's THE FORCE that connects Rey and Finn with Han Solo.

    Same in A New Hope can be applied. The Force sort of guided the Droids to Luke Skywalker.
    And in ESB, guided both our heroes and Vader to Cloud City.

    The Force awakens, for me, is more its manifestation in influencing the events that will eventually lead Rey to Luke Skywalker.
     
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