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SPECULATION Rey's vision with Dark Rey context

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Andrew Waples, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    So here is what's heard. I'll highlight the one's that I think is 'Dark Rey':
    [1:05:44] Young Rey: "Noooo!"
    [1:05:46] Yoda ["Empire Strikes Back"]: "It's energy...
    [1:05:51] Luke Skywalker ["Empire Strikes Back"]: "Noooo!"
    [1:05:52] Yoda: " ...surrounds us, and binds us."
    [1:05:59] Old Obi-Wan Kenobi ["Empire Strikes Back"]: "You will be tempted..."
    Old Obi-Wan [Empire Strikes Back"]: "...But you cannot control it."
    [1:06:03] Yoda: "Surrounds us."
    [1:06:04] Old Obi-Wan ["A New Hope"]: The Force will be...
    [1:06:13] Chancellor Palpatine ["Revenge of the Sith"]: "Any Jedi..."
    [1:06:14] Young Rey: "Noooo!"
    Obi-Wan ["Empire Strikes Back"]: "You will do it..."
    [1:06:16] Young Rey: "Come back!"
    [1:06:18] Unkar: "Quiet, girl."
    [1:06:20] Young Rey: "Noooo!"
    [1:06:25] Old Obi-Wan: "Rey?"
    [1:06:31] Young Obi-Wan: "These are your first steps."

    I don't recall Obi-Wan ever saying "you will do it" in Empire? Maybe it's similar to Obi-Wan's "Rey" when it's supposed to be "afraid". "You will be tempted... but you cannot control it" is the most intriguing line along with "any Jedi." What if this I'd 'Dark Rey'?

    In TLJ, Luke sensed she went straight to the dark and Kylo sensed that she would join him. Now I've seen people say it should've happened in TLJ if it where gonna happen at all. However, like Luke, just because it didn't happen then can't happen now. That being said, I think Dark Rey is real and not some kind of vision, because what would be the point of doing it twice?
     
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  2. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

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    We can asume that we see a glimpse of a Dark Rey in TLJ, right? When she was corrupted/tricked by the cave.
    [​IMG]
    Then in the sizzle reel we see again Rey in some sort of a force vision, dream or test...
    [​IMG]

    But we already saw this happening twice in the SW saga, with Luke. So I think it can happen with Rey also.

    We have luke facing his fears and the test in dagobah.
    [​IMG]

    And later in the way to be corrupt by the dark side in ROTJ.
    [​IMG]

    So, I kind of like these link between Rey and Luke. Maybe is something like this that we will see in TROS.
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    We have to keep in mind that Rey is meant to be the idol of alot of young girls and boys. Rey pulling a Daenerys at the end of the ST wouldn't be received that well then.
    I think it's a vison.

    1) Rey is having a vision of her own "future" (caused by Palpatine?)
    2) Kylo is having a vision of his goal (caused by Palpatine?)

    Especially the second opinion would be quite interesting, if we take the elevator talk in TLJ and the quote in TFA: "I will finish what you started."
    What did Vader start? There are dozen possibilities, but one thing would be, trying to turn Luke to the dark side. Maybe Kylo wants to do the same with Rey now.
     
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  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    What if Rey going dark, helps "Kylo" from being Kylo back to being Ben again? By pulling Rey back to the light?
     
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  5. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I just don’t see how the movie has time to accomplish a Rey turn dark, Kylo turn Rey back to light amongst everything else that appears to be going on in the movie. JJ in interviews talks about how a major part of this movie is about the hero’s going on an adventure as a group. It seems to me that he is trying to make it feel like the big 3 in the OT. Rey going dark through that does not seem to fit. Unless this movie is insanely long I’m not sure how Rey to dark to light again is accomplished without being rushed
     
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  6. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    Possible. But if so, then out of hypocrisy, this would be Kylo's story. Not Rey's.
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I don't know if you can apply context to anything because we saw a two second clip of her. You don't know the context of that clip or how it could be applied to any of this.
     
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  8. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    They have said that they are dual protagonists.
     
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  9. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    And I take that as a bad thing.
    Rey should be the protagonist. She was presented as such (TFA) before being downplayed as half
    protagonist (TLJ). Because that is what that statement (and that plot) implies: a downplay
    of the alleged protagonist.
    This will be the last strike. So sorry, but I would be very, very disappointed.
     
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  10. remiel6

    remiel6 Rebel Official

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    I tend to agree with this. I think something happens which leads them to confront Kylo on a quest, as they are looking for the same thing. What comes with this thing is the knowledge that the emperor lives. Rey already had her moment to join Kylo, and she decided against it. As for the Orphan theme in many movies. Luke was an orphan, we learned who his parents were, Anakin became an orphan, and we haven't learned in Cannon who his father is. We will learn of Rey's parents.

    Kylo must confront the reality of who anakin Skywalker was, he must do this to end the story. This will change him. this is either a clone, a vision/dream. Rey will not turn evil and come back, its too much work.

    They only other option is Rey learns early on that Palpatine was her father and is tempted by it
     
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  11. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    I think dark Rey is real and her "fall" will fulfill Kylo's vision in TLJ.
    The one thing we know for sure about visions is that they come true. Kylo saw Rey turning, so she will. Rey saw Kylo turning, so HE will. And this didn't even cross my mind when I noticed the first problem with the "dark Rey is a vision" theory, which is that no vision is that detailed. But it all makes sense to me now. Their visions showed them that they'll switch places, but they "read" them wrong at the time. I don't think Rey will stay on the dark side (that would be horrible), but she'll be there for a while. And I don't know how Kylo will stay on the light side, he tried that before and failed. Also, Snoke said that as Kylo grew stronger with the dark side, his "adversary" in the light grew stronger too. "Powerful light, powerful darkness". What if this works no matter which of them makes a choice first because the force is trying to balance itself through them? As in....What if Rey's choice to switch to the dark side makes Kylo turn to the light? OR what if Kylo's choice to switch to the light makes Rey fall to the dark side? What if the cycle can only stop when one of them finds balance? Then the other would have no choice but to stay on the middle ground too, there would be no extreme to counter.
     
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  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    Rey has never been portrayed as being the sole protagonist of the Sequel Trilogy.
     
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  13. Himmel

    Himmel Rebel Official

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    My prediction is....

    Kylo will realize the error of his ways, and see the evil messed up person Palps was, and turn back, meanwhile Palps will be alone with Rey, and his spirit will overwhelm, and seduce her like he did Anakin, and Kylo will have to bring her back to the light, and together vanquish Palps to hell where he should have gone.
     
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  14. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    She was presented as the heroine of the ST.
    And she was in TFA. Even if she a co-protagonist. Finn.
    Then she was downgraded as one of the 2 halves of the protagonist.
     
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  15. Sparafucile

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    So what's the possibilities?

    1. She really does go dark at the end... keep the cliff hanger going for 5+ years as we go into another trilogy away from the saga, a similar scene to TLJ when Kylo offers her a chance to join him, but her decision to not join wasn't out of goodness, but because she wants to be the master.
    2. She goes dark early, which to make Kylo go good may have to happen. Who knows though, I could be wrong. I doubt this the most... they'll want to string us along.
    3. She's possessed by Palps. I think this is the 2nd most likely one. I don't see her making a choice to become evil like Anakin did... she'd be forced to, relieving any responsibility on her part.
    4. It's a vision... to me the most likely one.
    5. She goes dark late... just as everything seems to be coming to an end, she's the twist and adds another 30-45 minutes. We could believe Kylo going light and things are cleverly hidden that on rewatch we see how she could make that choice. I really doubt this happens, but it could be made good, but the little girls would probably cry so no. This is a bit like 1, except she's actually defeated or turned back.
    6. She goes dark, accepting Palps into her as her only chance to defeat Kylo who's also dark. Evil vs evil. This could be interesting because it would cause debate on her responsibility of that decision. I think it works best if the survivor, likely Rey, stays dark. But this is Disney, so likely she's turned at the end to have a happy ending.

    Any other ideas?
     
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 Bendemptionist
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    the story has always inferred a need for balance from the earliest marketing.
    Ren Ben is also the last Skywalker, which gives him a place of prominence as the child of our OT heroes.

    if he wasn't advertised as one of the protagonists of the story it was because a.) he is the villain (at the moment), and b.) even then his identity as Han and Leia's son was a secret. they also didn't say Rey was Force-sensitive because they didn't want to spoil that bit of information. that didn't make Rey any less the proto-Jedi going forward into TLJ in which she was marketed as such.

    for me, once it was revealed that he was Han and Leia's son and that he and Rey were yin and yan, i knew the story was his as much as hers and have operated on that assumption ever since. even if not for any other reason than that's how stories like this work, generally speaking, and maybe Star Wars especially.
     
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  17. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    The earliest marketing was about Rey, Finn and Poe. Surely not about balance.
    And that TFA was centered about balance in terms of Rey/Kylo, that is a read of the movie.
    Not the spell.

    This is funny. Because I've been told by LF and all the mainstream media, that the super meaningful point the ST is making is that... blood doesn't matter.
    Lineage doesn't matter.
    That you don't have to come from a special family to be special.

    That a protagonist, may be a nobody.

    That when it comes to the (alleged or former) female heroine, with not surname, not backstory tied to the story of the Saga etc...

    And that's excatly why I wish they are not going any further with the downplay of her role as the
    protagonist (full, not half) of the ST.
     
  18. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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  19. FN-3263827

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    there's no contradiction here.

    Ben's bloodline is important only for continuity from the OT (and precisely because people think it ought to be significant).
    Rey is still the principal hero of the ST and her not belonging to that bloodline is what's actually significant.

    that doesn't necessarily make them any less of dual protagonists.
    to use an odious comparison, Beauty & the Beast is both the story of Beauty and the Beast.
    doesn't make Beauty any less the hero of the story.
     
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  20. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    What I am saying, is that this wasn't supposed to be or marketed as "Rey&Ben" story.
    Unless not until that (in)famous RJ's interview.

    But as Rey's story.

    And that I wish they'll stay true to this.

    You clearly wish something else. And you have the right to do so, just like I have mine.
     
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