Rian Johnson can't save TFA

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 8, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 8, 2017 ---

1. No, I LOVED ANH, and I was lead to believe that the wise old wizard had practiced a lifetime on the "mind trick" and was one of many secrets that could be mastered with practice.

2. So, have you seen "enter the dragon"? Are you a tae-kwon-do master?[/QUOTE]

I'm not a savant. So no. I can't just watch something and then do it. But, some people can. They do exist. The Star Wars saga films have always been centered around extraordinary people doing extraordinary things.

You gave examples of how you felt spoon fed a load of BS in TFA. I gave you one example about the completely preposterous, logic-free idea that Luke used the Force to blow up the Death Star - without being trained. You completely didn't respond to that and instead pointed out Obi-Wan using the Force as a trained master.

I also think you are taking the idea of using Jedi Mind trick and turning it into a skill that only Masters can use. Rey tried it twice before the third time it worked.

I get that you hate TFA and that it did terrible things to your perception about Star Wars. But, you can't pick and choose which logic-free ideas are acceptable and which aren't. It's Star Wars. It's modern mythology. Some things you just take with a grain of salt and enjoy the story. If you want to nitpick about logic, then you are sadly watching the wrong franchise. Because ANH, the movie that started it all, had HUGE leaps of logic.

 

We RJ to carry TLJ to new heights, TFA would've done the same.

 

I do love discussions on these forums, sometimes... This guy's asking the real questions.

Seriously, though- why are we splitting hairs? Sure, Obi Wan did a trick in Mos Eisley, with what could or could not have been "years of practice". We see Luke literally guide a proton torpedo using his mind later in the film, like a day after learning about the Force. Give the choice, I'd say that's pretty crazy for a beginner, too.

Of course, it's a movie, and Luke is the main character with a bit of a "chosen one" vibe (though, depending on your interpretation of that, not necessarily "THE" Chosen One). I think suspension of disbelief when it comes to space wizards isn't always a bad thing.

 

I REALLY want to say that you should give TLJ a chance. I REALLY want to say that you should give Disney a chance and that maybe TLJ will wash away the bad taste that TFA left in the mouths of many of us yet so far I wouldn't be able to tell you that without feeling like a hypocrite. The trailer has not convinced me, hearing Mark Hamill say he doesn't like what Rian Johnson thinks of Luke Skywalker makes me fear even more and finally seeing the incredibly lame aliens from TFA has me thinking alot like you.

 

I disliked many aspects of TFA yet I'm never one to say said movie is garbage without giving it a try. Sad to say though is that while I'm not going to say that TLJ sucks without seeing it, what I have seen so far looks pretty bad so while I can't say it's garbage, it really is smelling a tiny bit like a dump to me so I really hope to eat these words and be mindblown by an awesome movie and not just another lame rehash.

 

With all due respect, what you are saying is not true. Luke only used the Force to have the confidence to make the shot as he already had the skills. Luke: ''I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.'' I know you like TFA but what they did with Rey was incredibly overpowered as she just thought herself how to use the Force after minutes or hours of having learned it existed. She also managed to do in just one movie and without a Master what it took Luke three whole movies and he being guided by two of the most powerful Jedi Masters ever.

 

TFA brought great news chatacters and the SW feeling to the saga again. Feeling that we lost with the prequels.

 

I guess it's fair to say there's some ambiguity there, since at no point does Luke turn and look dead on to the camera and shout "I am not going to use The Force to accomplish my objective" and then go on to describe exactly how he's using the Force, but regardless I think that Luke accomplishing what was essentially a "One in a million" shot with at least some influence of the Force only days (if not hours) after learning of its existence is a thing a lot of people overlook. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing by any means, just that it kind of counters the "Rey learned the Force too quickly" argument pretty hard.

 

You worry about that? Think about this: what if TLJ is fantastic? Then you'll have to worry about the next director possibly ruining it. What's worse? A director possibly not being able to save the work of another, or a director possibly destroying the work of another? Eh?

 

My biggest concern is this:

Yes, we as fans are extremely good at coming up with awesome theories to make everything in TFA make sense from a fantastical point. I'm just afraid that the fans are better at this than the filmmakers themselves.

 

It was worse, because Anakin's actions against the Trade Federation aboard their ship were mainly accidental. That was pretty obvious.


However, I do suspect that Rian Johnson is talented enough to "redeem" "The Force Awakens" with "The Last Jedi".

 

For starters, man; I do not blame you for feeling that way. I am in the exact same boat with you. TFA, I thought it was fine in theaters but upon rewatching it multiple times I just found it dull. It went too ham with ANH with Starkiller base, was a lot of MB setup and most of the characters, minus Kylo, I found where dull. Though, the actors did an amazing job.

As for why I haven't given up is really because I love Rian Johnson. I know a lot of people have bandwagoned on him and this will come off as a hipster, but I have always been a big fan of Rian Johnson. I met him many years ago when I attended a screenwriting lecture. That was one of the best lectures I ever went to as RJ was humble, smart and informative.

Heck, I was the guy when it was announced that RJ would helm TLJ, cheering. So I do not blame you in setting the bar high. As TFA very much tossed any sense of narrative and cohesion for sequel baiting. And in my view, I have high expectations, given the director in charge. And so far what I have been seeing seems good. And with news that he is doing a separate trilogy has me optimistic about TLJ.

This being that LF has a ton of faith. Overall, do not be coerced into jumping on a bandwagon, Skepticism is a good thing as it keeps us level-headed. And really, as a fan there is nothing wrong with voicing a different view. Just don't be a dick, snob or odious individual.

 

I don't think TFA needs saving whatsoever.

 

For the sake of not tolerating a bunch of contrived nonsense in the future, let's stray away from things like, "mind control is actually pretty easy". There was already a noticeable lack of dramatic tension in The Force Awakens so this only exacerbates things.

Yeah, he used the Force enhancing his piloting skills and his marksmanship skills which the audience was informed that he already had. Luke literally needs the help of Obi-Wan and company throughout the entire film. In my opinion, this equivalency does Luke's character a lot of injustice. Hell, even while he's taking the shot, Han still has to save him from nearly getting killed by Vader in the trench.

 

This thread should be renamed, "Rian Johnson ruined TFA." or atleast made it irrelevant.

 

TFA getting a lot of love nowadays

 

So in some ways he did save it... but in a way absolutely nobody wanted.

(I'm of the camp it didn't need saving per se, but it did need a strong follow-up to give the trilogy proper direction)