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Rian Johnson talk about the changes to the Force in TLJ

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Mr Hux, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Hmmm....maybe just maybe....
     
  2. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I think you are exaggerating a bit, either way if you think lifting those boulders is the most impressive force feat so far in canon I don't think I will ever convince you, In my opinion it's not even that impressive.

    reyboulders.gif
     
  3. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    rey stones.png yoda stones.png

    It's not about lifting boulders being the most important force ability what bugs me is that Rey is by far the most Powerful Telekenesisuser ever. If she did force projection like this she could make an army of herself where the porjected lightsabers actually cut people apart or something. Don't you get it? The Power she displays is unmatched by any master of the force in canon and there is no explainationw hy. many other forceusers had nobodys as parents. it just doesnt add up.
     
    #103 BobRoss, Dec 20, 2017
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  4. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    Yes I told you from the beginning I agree with you on regards to Rey's abnormal learning curve and unexplained connection to the force. My point was that I didn't think lifting those boulders was that impressive, although it certainly looks very impressive in the shot you posted. I was more bothered by her defeat of Kylo the first time ever she held a lightsaber.
     
  5. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    The problem is not the freaking boulders. The problem is that she easily outmatches everyone we have seen before her for no reason at all. It really makes her look like a mary sue and I don't know why they did that. It makes every other character seem so utterly pointless. Every hard training, every mentor, every powerful ancestry. Poof, gone like that just to make a scene look cool.
    boulders.png
    I mean look at this. It's freaking obscene. Why did they do this. Now that I am taking a closer look this is almost bizzare. Look how tiny the fox is compared to the boulders. Yoda could probably sit on the back of this fox no problem. This is like a dozen x-wings worth of rock. If Rey can everything as good as telekinesis than she can force project the whole Jedi army from the old republic without breaking into sweat.
     
    #105 BobRoss, Dec 20, 2017
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  6. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Are you kidding? Snoke made her look like a fool. Luke beat her in sword combat and disarmed her but she went and pulled a lightsaber. She’s not even close to Master level.
     
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  7. SithSorcererofdeath

    SithSorcererofdeath Rebel Official

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    Yeah were gonna have to agree to disagree....Lucas definitely had more flaws than just that..
     
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  8. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    What are you talkign about? Of course she should get her ass whipped by Luke in a swordfight. Of course Snoke should she be more powerful than her. She left Jakku mere days ago! She held her first lightsaber mere hours before she met Luke! She's a bloody beginner and this is exactly why this scene is so out of place! I mean come on this isn't avengers where everyone has a super ability. There isn' this dude who can make a forcelightning that burns down half of Endor in 5 seconds. There isn't that guy who can mindcontrol an army into thinking that "these aren't the droids we're looking for". Sure some Jedis are better at this and some better at that but she is the freaking master of Telekinesis after a couple of days/weeks of knowing the force when Luke hadn't even moved his first lightsaber until 2 years after he had learnt of the force (There are 2 years betwenn ANH an TESB).
     
  9. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    You don’t know that about the timeline. You realize the trip to Ahch-To didn’t take 5 mins right? It could have been weeks.
     
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  10. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Yeah weeks on a ship. Is Chewie ow force sensitive too training Rey on the Falcon. Did she have some training dummies on board that I missed. Even if she spent years of training I would still be like "why couldn't master Yoda or Palpatine pull something off like this? What's her secret?" Well there isn't any. She ahs this power because Rian wanted her to have it. Cool to look at in the movie, sure. But this scene is terrible for the franchise as a whole by making even characters like Anakin look like untalented idiots with an extremely flat learning curve. Ifg we had seen Vader pull down a Star destroyer with the force then sure Rey's power would look somewhat reasonable. But if you look through the images I posted and honestly want to tell me there is nothing wrong with her learning curve and how she not only matches but surpasses everyone we have seen before her then you really don't care about consistency at all. If she was some prime jedi or Snoke had possessed her body and amplified her strenght then sure. Go ahead and make her more powerful than any other forceuser before. But making a nobody stand out from all the other nobodies for no reason ata ll other than a cool looking scene is terrible writing.
     
  11. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Everyone stood still and did nothing between ANH and ESB. The fact that you think the events shown in the films as being the only time these characters learn or grow is mindboggling.
     
  12. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    The fact that you think Rey could do 900 years of training like Yoda in a couple of days is a lot more mindboggling.

    /edit: I don't have any more things to say concernign this topic. I showed you images, made comparisons to the whole Disney Canon, took Rey's training and background tinto the equation and there is no way I can convince you that the power Rey displays is over the top. Fair enough, that's your oppinion. Have a nice day.

    /edit: and another clouded. Whenever discussions don't go your way because you have no more arguments you can always downvote people. Whatever makes you happy man.
     
    #112 BobRoss, Dec 20, 2017
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  13. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Name one thing shes done that shows her more powerful than Yoda or Vader or Palpatine or even Obi-Wan? Don't tell me lifting some boulders.

    "You've taken your first step into a larger world" -Obi-Wan to Luke after deflecting laser bolts blindfolded after just being handed a light saber.
    "Rey, these are your first steps" -Obi-Wan to Rey after the first time she touched a light saber.

    Again for those with issues of her lifting boulders. Here is my counter point. All based in fact.

    1. Yoda makes a point to tell Luke that the size of the object does not impact the ability to lift it.
    2. If she only moved a few rocks, than people would complain that Poe and Finn could have just blasted there way through the obstacle.
    3. Rey is a believer. She broke the gound on Ahch-To. She's been setup to be very powerful to the point where Luke said he'd only seen this power in Ben Solo.
    4. Snoke says Ben Solo's equal in the light will rise, it turns out it is Rey. Not just because of power, but because she is selfless and big hearted. All she wants is to belong.
    5. We don't know the final chapter of Rey's story yet. There may be more that help tie this all together. Maybe the fans that dislike her power will get an explaination.

    The question I ask is, if she was Luke's daughter or Palpatine's Grandaughter, would you still have an issue with Rey lifting boulders or doing mind tricks?
     
    #113 techsteveo, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  14. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    She is good at everything she has tried so far. Everything. Anakin was never able to mindcontrol it was his weakness she learnt it in 2 freaking minutes! An advanced forcetechnique was her first display of using the force. The second time she showed us she has teh force was by doing telekinesis. She was better at it then Kylo even if she had NEVER done it before. And now only a couple of weeks/days later she does the by far most impressive display of telekinesis in the entire canon. No matter what she does she is amazing at it. What will she do in the next movie, lift up an entire city. It's not, I repeat, not about the freaking boulders. It's about the sheer mass and weigth of objects she can lift up when Yoda struggles to lift up far lighter and far smaller and fewer objects than her. What the hell do you not understand about this.
     
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  15. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    What are you talking about?
    What are you talking about? When was she better than Kylo?
    Better than Palpatine throwing the Senate at Yoda? No.
    Did Yoda struggle in the prequels? No. In ESB, he was a year away from his death. His physical body was giving way. "Strong am I with the force, but not that strong".
     
  16. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    lift.png
    Yes he does struggle as you can see in this image.

    Anakin was terrible at force mind control. Read the Canon comics. This is why he never uses it in the movies.

    Kylo wants to grab the lightsaber on Starkillerbase and doesn't understand why it wont work, then Rey litterally "outforces" him and it flies into her hands.

    Go look at the palpatine scene again. These tiny floating dishes are nothing compared to the sheer amount of stone she lifts, also he is the freaking most powerful Sith in the Galaxy more powerful than Vader. She is a freaking beginner what don't you understand not about this?

    The force does't decrease with age it grows. Look at Snoke, look at Luke or Dooku. Physical strenght is not important for the force.
     
    #116 BobRoss, Dec 21, 2017
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  17. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    You are literally making up your own version of things to fit what you want to believe.

    The light saber went to her because IT CALLED TO HER! It was meant for her! That was the whole theme of TFA. It wasn't an arm wresting match.
    Vader tells Obi-Wan that "your powers are weak old man". I just quoted Yoda. His physical body does have something to do with it. Obi-Wan also says "i'm getting too old for this sort of thing". Age matters, even for Jedi. It doesn't grow with age. You just made that up.
    I'm not going to debate what was heavier, the Senate Pods or some rocks. Who gives a darn? It was impressive either way. So what?

    THAT PICTURE OF YODA IS CALLED CONCENTRATION. Good day Lord Troll.
     
    #117 techsteveo, Dec 21, 2017
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  18. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    The X-Wing weighs more than all of those those rocks. Since there isn't any canonical references, the X-Wing weighs around 5 metric tons (if you was to scale down an F-22 fighter jet) and not including the additional weight of water and seaweed. You're telling me that all of those rocks weigh more than 5 metric tons? We don't even know if those rocks are made out of dirt. They could be made out of salt which would make them lighter.
     
    #118 deadmanwalkin009, Dec 27, 2017
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  19. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Yes, I am sure these rocks are heavier than 5 metric tonnes. Sure there is seaweed and water and all that in the X-Wing but it can't be that much, otherwise the X-Wing would not have been able to function properly. A spaceship has to be sealed thight to keep in all the air in space so it definitely wouldn't fill up with water like a car. If you are really trying to tell me that this amount of stones
    boulders.png
    is lighter than 5 metric tonnes then you have never tried to dig a swimming pool or moved a seizeable amount of rocks and dirt. Look at how tiny the fox is compared to the rocks. Are you seriously trying to tell me that there are only 5 metric tons of stone there?
    The following pictures were taken from a website depicting what 5 tons of stone look like in its FAQ section. Maybe this will help you put things into perspective (look at the size of the wheelbarrow and imagine Rey next to it)

    faq3.jpg
    5 tonnes of stone
    faq4.jpg
    10 tonnes of stone
    faq5.jpg
    15 tonnes of stone.

    Look at the image of Rey and then please tell me again how an x-wing is heavier than the amount of stone we see there. Oh and in case you still claim this is salt and not rock then we are still at a weight of 2,175t/m³ for rocksalt with granite (a very heavy stone) only weighting slightly more at 2,725t/m³.

    One cubic metre equals a cube of one metre in lenght/height/depth. In this image you can see Rey who is about 1,7 metres tall. So please tell me again how she only lifts less than 5 tonnes of stone -.-

    rey stones.png
     
    #119 BobRoss, Dec 27, 2017
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  20. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    I agree with @BobRoss . We watch Luke struggle to lift small stones in ESB, while Rey lifts an avalanche of huge boulders with ease. I don't understand why it's so hard to admit that Rey's power doesn't match the amount of training she's received or that what we have seen her do goes against everything else we've seen in the Star Wars universe. Training has always been an important aspect of growing your power in the force, and so far, Rey has received little to no training.
     
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