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rian johnson will get worse....not better without the baggage of the original characters

Discussion in 'Rian Johnson's New Trilogy' started by zazeron, Jan 26, 2018.

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  1. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    I'm not sure how fair it is to compare the middle chapter of a trilogy to the closing one (the climax of the events)...
    I mean, even if the middle chapter is superior from a filmmaking point of view, the most important events in the story usually happen in the closure. Especially when it comes to a prequel story.
    TLJ only had to "compete" with AotC when it comes to the prequels imo.
     
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  2. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    no....ROTS doesnt even touch rose tico in terms of characterizations and we re talking about darth vaders origin story
     
  3. Old Fossil

    Old Fossil Rebelscum

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    Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars came for the nostalgia. The roots of division among fans are in the nostalgia, or lack thereof. I want the films to do well, but if Disney doesn't hold on to the 40+ year-old nerd market, I fear the worst.
     
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  4. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Commander

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    Some of it is unavoidable no matter how regrettable. There is a fair chunk that is in it for the OT Big Three and almost no matter what will lose interest that are also generally hard core oppose recasting said characters meaning you don't have a lot of sandbox to work with that keeps them aboard.

    Then you have the folks that are Lucas ONLY and the ones that are vehemently anti Disney.

    Can't forget all the irate bigots of various stripes.

    There are a certain number that just cannot be bargained with. There is no currency to do so with.
     
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  5. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I HAVE HOPE STAR WAR WILL RETURN TO GREATNESS...
     
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  6. Deac421

    Deac421 Rebel Commander

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    I actually liked Holdo and I would classify Rose as a “meh”character. She didn’t add any value, but I don’t think she she detracted from the movie either. The ultimate “meh” character... wouldn’t notice if she was gone. She is no jar jar.

    Meesa be tinkin’ yousa be postin’ some bom-bad hyperbole.
     
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  7. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    What makes Star Wars Star Wars?
    Skywalker? Nope.
    Death Star? DS66? anyone?
    Empire? Maybe, if FO decids to rename it Empire.
    Solo? If Rey is Han and Qi'Ra kid, I guess.
    Some kind of Rebellion? Civil War against Central government? okay.
    X-Wing. Please new fighters.
    TIE fighter. Same.
    Millenium Falcon: Still running after 100 years, as far as we know.

    Rian Johnson Trilogy: Is it really Star Wars? you decide.

    Edit: Re: Holdo.
    I want to ask why a Vice Admiral survived Hosnian Prime. Is she some kind of deserter? Or is there actually a bunch of military big wigs designated survivor still alive and she's just one of them? Is there a uniform in the New Republic military/navy at all?
     
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  8. Mista

    Mista Clone

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    I'll give you two facts that make this opinion all but valid. Rose was written as an incredibly selfish character towards the resistance.

    First, on Canto Bight, her and Finn come to the conclusion that its ok they failed at finding the code breaker because they got to trash the casino and let 12 horses free. No mention that all their friends are now facing iminent death because they failed to find the code breaker. Now granted he magically shows up with BB8 and they do find him, but their comments before show little remorse for their failure.

    Second, on Crait, Finn is about to do the most admirable thing. He is going to sacrifice himself because he doesn't want the FO to win. So what does Rose do, she stops him to save the one she loves. This act single handily should have killed the resistance and would have if Luke didn't do what he did. As matter of fact, had she not done that Luke would be alive right now because the giant gate would have stayed closed and they could have still left out the back.

    I utterly despised this character and pretty much only for the reasons I just described, nothing else. I really hope this character has nothing to do with EP9.
     
    #28 Mista, Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  9. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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  10. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    She is a Vice Admiral of Resistance not New Republic. She was involved in the battles against FO (Poe mentions one). So, she 99% wasn't on Hosnian Prime but on her ship (Ninka). Resistance clearly doesn't hold to the formality - General Leia wears a dress and Holdo's dress is reflection of both her cultural heritage (very formal, strict) and her personality (she resists it) and she is high enough on a food chain to do what she wants.
     
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  11. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi Commander

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    You are correct in both cases, but where you see these two cases as character flaws, I see them as character strengths.

    Rose isn't gung ho about Team Resistance. She doesn't see the fight as us vs. them. She's an individual with her own sense of right and wrong. She does what she thinks is right. She'd be a terrible stormtrooper. But that's the whole point of Rose Tico. She doesn't know squat about strategy or tactics or battle logistics, but she's in the Resistance anyway because it's the right thing to do. Having people like Rose fleshed out in all their imperfections and idealistic naivety works as a contrast to the First Order, who are faceless, heartless, order-following killers. It shows this isn't a battle between two equals, it's between an efficient murder machine and a bunch of idealists - just like the original Star Wars was in 1977.
     
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  12. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    you assume too much.gif
    leia eye roll.gif
     
    #32 Moral Hazard, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
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  13. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    'Facts' you say ?

    Now, what I read that you wrote was supposition around opinion.
    Ain't no facts in them.



    Ain't it just ?
    There might just be a Lil' more he's suggested in various other place and things that we know not of.
     
    #33 Ruralfarmboy, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  14. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    LOL, you blame Rose for Luke's death? You believe that Finn destroying that battering ram would have saved them?

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Or that he'd be able to destroy the cannon with his Ski Speeder. Besides, Luke became one with the Force because he chose to, not because of exhaustion.
     
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  16. Mista

    Mista Clone

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    Where exactly was that explained. And yes I did give you actual facts about scenes in the movie. There was no opinion other than maybe Luke would have lived.
     
    #36 Mista, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  17. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    .
    They had No choice (or time, for that matter) but to accept that they failed. Was it 'ok ' to them ?
    Fact ? Yep.

    .
    They did not 'get to' ... that's the way the Story played out ... they weren't in control of the situation nor of the fathiers.
    Fact ? Nope, yer opinion and if ya didn't like ? That's alright.

    .
    Fact ? Yep.

    'magically shows up' ... again, how the Story plays out. 'little remorse' -No time, their still figuring out what do next even though they understood they had failed.[/QUOTE].
    Fact ? Nope, yer opinion and if ya didn't like ? That's alright.

    .
    Fact ? Yep.

    .
    Fact ? Yep.

    'If' After the fact ('this' should'a happened, 'that' should'a happened) holds no weight.
    Fact ? Nope, yer opinion and if ya didn't like ? That's alright.


    .
    "had she not done that ..." again, ('this' should'a happened, 'that' should'a happened) holds no weight. And ya started this with "As matter of fact,". When in fact, it is your opinion.

    Again, clearly your opinion.
    And that's alright.
    So ...me ?I loved her.
    I'll just agree to disagree with ya.
    Friend
     
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  18. Mista

    Mista Clone

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    .
    Fact ? Nope, yer opinion and if ya didn't like ? That's alright.

    .
    Fact ? Yep.

    .
    Fact ? Yep.

    'If' After the fact ('this' should'a happened, 'that' should'a happened) holds no weight.
    Fact ? Nope, yer opinion and if ya didn't like ? That's alright.


    .
    "had she not done that ..." again, ('this' should'a happened, 'that' should'a happened) holds no weight. And ya started this with "As matter of fact,". When in fact, it is your opinion.

    Again, clearly your opinion.
    And that's alright.
    So ...me ?I loved her.
    I'll just agree to disagree with ya.
    Friend[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely agree to disagree. But as you pointed out, there were facts in my statements.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2018 ---
    Also, please explain how this is fact and not your opinion, To me, his facial expressions show that he was exhausted from the effort. Also take Kylo's teaser line to Rey "Your not doing this, the effort alone would kill you". Seems to me Rian was making it out to be death from exertion.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2018 ---
    Again, why would Rian put this in if the assumption was he wouldn't have been able to destroy it?
     
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  19. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    Now here's the thing, I disagree with you on the merits of that scene and those characters, but the they've been debated to death. I would simply offer a point of view that might offer a different context: neither Rose Tico nor Amilyn Holdo exist to be their own character. Rose is 100% dependent on Finn. She doesn't have a single scene without Finn, she doesn't do anything without Finn's involvement, she doesn't even talk to anyone Finn isn't talking to (not exactly the feminist torchbearer is she). You could argue that this all makes her a weak character, and I honestly couldn't really fight you on that. That said, without any self related purpose to the character, what is her purpose? She is solely a vehicle for Finn's character development. Due to her influence, Finn goes from still "a man who wants to run" to a man willing to lay down his life for the cause of the Resistance (though that's still not what they need right now). As for Admiral Holdo, while slightly more Feminist, she also is purely there as a foil for Poe Dameron. Poe's character development was beautiful, going from a hero to a leader, and Holdo played a huge role in that happening. He needed someone to rebel against, be wrong, and learn a lesson from. As cool as the Ackbar-it's-a-trap scene was on the HISHE video, it wouldn't have had the same effect on Poe as having someone who he opposed do it. Also, to be honest, Holdo's story is pretty dependent on Dameron's.

    Seems to me that Rian Johnson used his characters like pieces on a chess board. Sacrificing some to put others into better positions.

    And this, I think, is why he wanted to his own Trilogy to begin with. Holdo, Tico, DJ, all of their plot arcs went into moving along Finn and Poe. Similarly, Luke's plot arc overshadowed Rey's because it was Luke-Freakin-Skywalker. Imagine wanting to tell a story about the Bishop that makes it so your Queen doesn't just get taken by the King, turning a sacrificial check into a checkmate.
     
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  20. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I just hope that he is open to ideas from other directors and screenwriters. Doing a monumental task like writing a movie trilogy all on your own is usually not a good idea. Feedback is crucial to see flaws in your work you wouldn't have discovered on your own so I hope he isn't 100% in charge of the trilogy. Lucas became worse when he stopped listening to feedback and I seriously hope Rian doesn't make the same mistake.
     
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