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rian johnson will get worse....not better without the baggage of the original characters

Discussion in 'Rian Johnson's New Trilogy' started by zazeron, Jan 26, 2018.

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  1. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    We're fans ... not businessmen so I guess that the way we look at this is not the same as Disney's accountant.

    You know, it's like in every company, no money, no projet, no people to work on.

    Toys sales are easy rents, you can't pretend it's not a part of the thing.
     
  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Great, glad we agree!

    So enjoy/critique the movie on its own merits rather than something as outdated as toy sales.
     
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  3. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    You can't deny the OP's point that RJ failed to create just one interesting character.

    I highly doubt Rose, Purple hair or DJ will join the SW mythology next to Grievous, Dooku, Lando, Yoda or Boba Fett who were introduced in middle movies of a trilogy.
     
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  4. Buster Ash

    Buster Ash Clone

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    I disagree even if it’s just the 30+ fans that would buy them they still would have bought them.. if they had handled the movies right!
    If they went the route of the Jedi academy books or even the leagacy of the force books, Mara Jade toys and the solo twins would be flying off shelves.
    But instead they let Kathleen Kennedy and her identity political agenda run the movies in to the ground. When all they really had do is pick up a book and shoot what was written. The force Awakens was going to make money no mater what they did. Just because it was the first Star Wars film in a decade. But it was obvious JJ Abrams had a vision for the trillagy and Rian Johnson was like no I don’t like that! At this point I don’t think they can recover from this. I have relagated this new trilogy to the same black hole as the Ewak movies
     
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  5. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Unfortunately, big budget movies cannot be made specifically for the fans. They just have to made appealing to a general audience. Blade Runner 2049 was made for the fans, and look how that turned out.
    Also, in comparison to other current franchises, Star Wars is so mild on SJW stuff, that it can easily be ignored. Try watching, say, season 2 of Supergirl. After 5-6 episodes of that, Kathleen Kennedy would seem like Trump supporter in comparison.
     
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  6. Buster Ash

    Buster Ash Clone

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    I have Seen super girl and I actually have no problem with feminism in the right context such as a show a bout a fema super hero. It fits the story! What I hate is when it is made to fit a movie or show instead of using the lore and story that has already made it a huge hit. Trying to gain 7% of the worlds poplularion as a customer at the cost of 50%of your fain bas is bad Biusniss when your fan bas is 50%of the world.
     
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  7. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Feminism is to be expected from a show like Supergirl. No, the problem with season 2 was that almost every episode was about some opressed minority (alien immigrants primarely) and how badly they are treated. And it's not just my opinion, because alien immigrants are completely gone from Season 3.
    But Supergirl's faults is not the issue here and I only mentioned that to show how small the SJW stuff is in SW in comparison to other sci-fi/fantasy franchises currently airing. Besides, the majority of pissed off "fans" are pissed off because of their subverted expectations (mainly about Luke). KK and her "feminist agenda" is just a good target focus the hatred on.
    Of course, if people are pissed off about feminism, diversity quota etc, then they probably aren't watching any other recent sci-fi shows or movies. Because it's everywhere.
     
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  8. Buster Ash

    Buster Ash Clone

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    you Hit the nail on the head there. Fans are pissed about the way KK has treated Gorge Lucas beloved characters. I lifted my personal ban on Solo last night because I am a star was fan that wants the franchise to survive this, and solo was not that bad but the end was a shameless cliffhanger for Obi-one. And the movie is more about hans love intrest then it is him.
    It’s clear KK and Disney has no respect for the old characters and because of that I still am relaxations g everything from here on out to the same shelf as the Ewake movies.
     
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  9. Buster Ash

    Buster Ash Clone

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    Also I can’t beleve your comparing the limited universe of blade runner with the Star Wars universe. Blade runners fan base is minuscule compared to Star Wars. Also blade runner was R rated and is not exactly family friendly.
    If they made the new Star Wars movie with the fans in mind they would have made there money back by know between the murchindise and box office sales. I would have spent thousands on LEGO Star Wars sets of Luke’s academy and on Mara Jade whip sabers and all kinds of stuff along with multiple movie nights with my family. And I know I’m not the only one that would have done that. And there was a lot of room for creative libertys that could have bin taken that would not have completely distorted the character of Han Luke and Leia. A lot of Fans have not even read the books that came after the return of the Jedi.
    Now 2 movies later the Jedi are gone again!! It is just a wast of material and the only reson for it is so KK and others at Disney and Lucasfilm can try and make movies as soon as possible with there own political driven 2 dementonal characters that we are supposed to just fall in love with because it’s The Star Wars name on it.
     
    #69 Buster Ash, Jun 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  10. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    They do make them with the fans in mind but also the general audience. Im a fan.. you are fan.. there are many fans, which do they cater to? Obviously each fan has there on ideas and wants. Not everyone likes the same thing. How do you decided? ... I dont think it is really feasible to do. The artist has a vision and that is what he makes for everyone, not just the fans. We are fans, and we love Star Wars but that doesn't mean we are entitled to anything other than being given the author's vision.

    I don't feel it is a waste of material. It books were made, published, we bought them and enjoyed them. Doesn't seem to be a waste to me. I think they wanted to make something new and not redo a book that has already been done. Dont feel like they wanted to be bound and limited to what had happened in 25 years of EU material that has been through two companies. Again, how do you choose which material would have been good to retell? Ive read many, liked some, didn't care for some. Im sure you and many fans are the same way. How would they choose which ones to keep and which ones to throw out? or is it easier to throw it all to the side, let the directors tell a new story then insert things from the EU that are applicable back into the cannon. I don't know. It definitely isn't an easy job and I certainly don't pretend to know what is best and what everyone will like. I like the NJO and many fans don't. Just my 2 cents.
     
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  11. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel General

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    I had very high hopes for TLJ especially after the end of TFA and that Rian Johnson was directing it as I loved Looper!

    Sadly for me TLJ was a major disappointment! I felt the story was weak as was the execution of some of the scenes and after seeing the bluray bonus disc I did question some of the decisions made of scene selection. TLJ just felt disjointed from TFA and perhaps it was just too big a project for RJ to take on a Saga film.

    I do however think that RJ writing his own story from scratch, with completely new characters could be great but with the divisiveness of TLJ and the Box Office failure of SOLO (so far) , I do now wonder if RJ's Trilogy will even go ahead.
     
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  12. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Commander

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    Grievous was not in AOTC. Boba was a costume rather than anything like a character as such and was actual cut from Star Wars and you could get the figure with Cherrio box tops before Empire.

    It's hard for me to imagine Dooku selling any serious volume of toys especially minus speeder bike and drones but I don't know.

    Yoda is probably my favorite character of all time so no argument but there was little place to introduce anybody like a Yoda into this movie nor did it happen in AOTC either because it probably wouldn't make much sense to.

    I like Lando but in no small part he was a more mack daddy version of Han and also back up Han since Ford wanted out soooo bad. Just as insurance because we needed the scoundrel.

    Also, flat out Johnson wasn't just making up characters to sell figures. He can make compelling and interesting characters the few he added were to serve other characters and move the story that's it. Rose, Holdo, and DJ aren't my all time list but they serve their functions and work for me.

    You may as well be asking why General Reikien or Dodanna or Mon Mothma figures weren't flying off the shelves. A few will go but they just aren't that kind of thing. Sure, Rose, Holdo, and DJ are larger parts than that they are also way down the food chain too. Luke, Rey, Kylo, Leia, Finn, Poe, and BB8 take precedence. Snoke and Hux.

    They are just a few non Jedi, non bounty hunter human supporting characters. Good Lord, what is so dire or disappointing about that?

    I'm more than confident that Johnson wasn't all giddy and patting himself on the back that DJ was his Boba Fett because one wasn't needed, there was already Phasma holding that down.

    I really think poodoo is being thrown at the wall with this. The constant flipping from Brazil to Fast and the Furious to Toy Story to Star Trek The Motion Picture to The Wall to Herman's Head and back again with demands and expectations that just seem to be lacking any cohesion themselves.

    A mental street fight that just picks up whatever it can as weapon.

    I survived Phantom Menace eleven times it the theater, bought the deluxe VHS, DVD, and the Blu and it is not my favorite by any stretch and actually pisses me off at times, bugs bad at others, and even a touch of dullness.
    I didn't trash the franchise or even the movie even if I was also clear that some parts didn't work for me.

    Now fair enough I don't despise it.
    I think it is the best crafted of the prequels and it will be the one that holds up the best with time just because it was filmed but personal preference is AOTC by a mile with the sand talk, lots of bad delivery, dubious at best chemistry, and war crime level heinous Threepio in the Droid factory all accounted for.

    Not happy but always was looking for more and better days and didn't need hyperbolic and cancerous tantrums to say I hoped for better work. I can say hey this is a 6.5/10 and very disappointing instead of pretending it was a "Pure Luck" or a Highlander 2 1/10 turkey to express that.

    Fans want to call themselves "hard core" or whatever variety of super duper you please are in their seats for their teams even if they have to wear a bag on their head is the way die hard works.

    Everyone isn't built to he die hard that is why we have terms like casual fans, fair weather fans, and general audiences and it is okay to be one of those sorts it just takes the humility to admit it

    Of course even I may become far more conditional in my love if ownership over reacts to some folks tantrums and starts doing nothing but churning out box checking, safe, fan service delivery systems seemingly so heavily favored by a certain segment (which is fine, I like cake too but I just don't desire an exclusive diet of it) no matter what level of highbrow they feign when being critical of what they don't like which seems to be anything that continues the time line.
     
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  13. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    They were badly introduced.

    Rose Tico is only there to get the asian market, her arc is meh at best, she brings nothing to the story. Holdo had to put Leia in a coma to be there and she died as soon as she's there. DJ is a white Lando Calrissian without half of his charisma.

    Once again, this is what the director created of his own. These characters are highly forgettable.
     
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  14. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    So, this thread has gone off the rails. Actually, it went off the rails a while ago...

    Please refer to our Rules and Regs. We have plenty of threads to discuss the pros and cons of TLJ, and the future trilogy of Rian Johnson's. Move along.
     
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