1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Rian Johnson's Comedy in TLJ

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Fernus, Jun 6, 2018.

?

Did you like comedy in TLJ?

  1. Yes, I loved it! The film is so much better with it

    11 vote(s)
    9.9%
  2. Yes, it was fine for most of the time

    23 vote(s)
    20.7%
  3. The comedy was alright. Some jokes didn't land, but nothing unforgivable

    16 vote(s)
    14.4%
  4. I didn't like most of the jokes. Some were fine

    16 vote(s)
    14.4%
  5. The jokes were bad. They interfered with the general mood of the movie

    22 vote(s)
    19.8%
  6. The jokes were atrocious. Nothing good about the comedy here at all

    23 vote(s)
    20.7%
  1. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    8,974
    Trophy Points:
    92,402
    Credits:
    12,243
    Ratings:
    +14,898 / 149 / -71
    I liked the comedy in TLJ. But I felt that Rian took Hux to the total opposite end of the spectrum compared to TFA. It's not a complaint just thought there was no middle ground really with him

    Hux was way too serious in TFA and then Hux was the total joke in TLJ. Will JJ make him too serious again or run with what Rian was doing only on a smaller scale?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  2. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,337
    Likes Received:
    82,907
    Trophy Points:
    171,417
    Credits:
    48,389
    Ratings:
    +87,810 / 84 / -31
    FIRST OF ALL HOW DARE YOU. SECOND OF ALL, HOW CAN YOU SAY NO TO THAT FACE?!

    [​IMG]

    *serious tone* Here's how I see it. We either use it to our advantage or painstakingly remove every one of the birds in post. So, they cranked to 11. Plus, SW is a alien world it needs creatures like these every now and then.
     
    #162 Andrew Waples, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    • Cute Cute x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  3. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Posts:
    629
    Likes Received:
    10,268
    Trophy Points:
    91,117
    Credits:
    3,344
    Ratings:
    +11,131 / 9 / -2
    Stop it! You're making me hungry.
     
    • Cute Cute x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,337
    Likes Received:
    82,907
    Trophy Points:
    171,417
    Credits:
    48,389
    Ratings:
    +87,810 / 84 / -31
    The entire 3PO sequence at the end of Empire was a joke.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2019 ---
    YOU WILL LIKE THE PORGS. *mind tricks you*
     
    • Cute Cute x 4
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Posts:
    629
    Likes Received:
    10,268
    Trophy Points:
    91,117
    Credits:
    3,344
    Ratings:
    +11,131 / 9 / -2
    I DO like the porgs. They're really tasty.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2019 ---
    Seriously though, when did I say I DON'T like the porgs? I have no issue with the porgs! I'm fine with them. They're cute, funny little bird/mammal type things with an apparent level of sentience hitherto not seen for a small critter in Star Wars. What's not to like?

    I was just suggesting, for anybody who is not so keen on them or amused by them, that it's easy to blank them from your mind's eye version of the story if you so wish, because they have no significant impact on the tale being told.

    I also like puffins.
     
    • Cute Cute x 6
    • Like Like x 2
  6. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    3,364
    Likes Received:
    48,896
    Trophy Points:
    171,477
    Credits:
    16,157
    Ratings:
    +56,017 / 9 / -3
    I would love to see a carryover of the porg situation pop up in TROS.... something is not working on the Falcon, and Poe goes to check it out and finds a porg nest or something and exclaims his hate for them. I'm sure he still hates monkeys more, but porgs would probably be up there too.

    Poe and the porgs would be like Hulk and stairs.

    [​IMG]
     
    #166 DarthSnow, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,817
    Likes Received:
    21,974
    Trophy Points:
    149,167
    Credits:
    19,944
    Ratings:
    +26,699 / 65 / -37
    I understand this characterization, but I wonder if it's quite as thoughtless on Rian's part as people assume it is.

    Hux in TFA is the big man on campus in the First Order. He's firing off Starkiller base, destroying the Republic, tracking down the Resistance. Meanwhile, that "dweeb" Kylo Ren is off on some pointless quest to track down some old myth.

    In TLJ, Hux is in a whole different place. He's lost Starkiller base, his ambush at D'Quar didn't quite work, and Snoke has arrived to punish him. It's like when the bully at school sees his older brother or parents and suddenly isn't nearly as menacing.

    I think it's interesting to see how Hux changes after Snoke's death, which is something a lot of people don't talk about. He nearly cooly kills Kylo Ren, and then clearly is much more calm in the battle of Crait compared to Kylo. Definitely not how he was pictured earlier in the film. If I had to guess, this is probably the Hux we;ll see in TROS.
     
    • Wise Wise x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  8. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,552
    Likes Received:
    8,974
    Trophy Points:
    92,402
    Credits:
    12,243
    Ratings:
    +14,898 / 149 / -71
    You're correct. He did get serious and hold it together for some moments. One of my favorite scenes was when Kylo had them firing on Luke and Hux says"That's enough!"

    Honestly, Hux is a dangerous conniving individual. He can hold it together too when Kylo can't. If he had a chance again with killing Kylo he would.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Jedi General

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Posts:
    532
    Likes Received:
    18,760
    Trophy Points:
    144,517
    Credits:
    16,709
    Ratings:
    +19,634 / 1 / -0
    Re: porgs. I love porgs.

    I know some (not just here) see them as essentially meaningless cutesy-creatures designed only to sell toys, and if that’s how little meaning one chooses to see in them that’s fine. But for me, I think they bring some other interesting possible interpretations beyond their basic silliness (which one will either like or not on a more basic level). I posted the following elsewhere a while ago in response to a discussion questioning the purpose of Porgs...
    —————
    “In the story, they were essentially symbolic of the cycle of life that creates the balance of energy that is the Force. Like Luke and Rey, they had to leave ‘the nest’ to search out their destiny on an adventure. They have families, and are born from eggs, long-standing symbols of re-birth, life, and many other interesting things. I could write paragraphs just on eggs, google ‘eggs and symbolism’, seriously.

    According to Rian Johnson, their design has partial inspiration from Miyazaki’s Totoro, which were the spirit of the forest, where the Totoros live beneath a giant Camphor tree. The porgs live on an island that is home to an ancient uneti ‘Force’ tree, which forms a sacred library for the holy Jedi books. It is perhaps significant that once some of the porgs leave the island, Force Ghost Yoda turns up and finally destroys the tree - it is as though the porgs are somehow guardians or assistants to the books.

    On a practical level, we know they made life much easier for post-production so they didn't have to remove loads of birds that were naturally on location. Unless one believes the resident puffins have shares in Hasbro, I think it’s hard to argue the only reason the porgs exist is to sell toys.”
    —————
    Make of that what you will, some people thought it was ‘the most delusional *expletive for ‘nonsense’* they’d read’ apparently, lol. :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
  10. cheewie

    cheewie Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Posts:
    33
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Credits:
    304
    Ratings:
    +89 / 3 / -0
    I didn´t like TLJ comedy as a general feeling, only one or two jokes worked for me (And surprisingly they came from Luke). This few jokes that partially worked felt out less out of place as I think that they serves an additional purpose. I can stand Luke´s joke about Rey feeling the Force, as it remebered me that a cheerful and possitive person is still inside(very deep) Luke. I didn´t like at the first time Luke being cocky with Kylo when FO shots at him, it felt anticlimatic but despite of it I think that it partially works as Luke in this moment needs to provoke Kylo, it is like he is saying ``You will have to get down to duel me to end this´´. And it was necessary to Kylo to do it as Luke main objective was get some extra time for the resistance to escape. And in Star Wars context, I think that jokes should serve an extra purpose to work, as good jokes were in the previous movies (and not every joke in OT and PT were good) So not all jokes are bad in TLJ but they mostly were... The iron moment, BB8 doing strange things, Finn acting like a clown... I was very upset about all of this. I would like to mention two specifical jokes...

    Luke tossing the lightsaber... It´s a good summary of the feeling I had watching the movie... The film tells very serious and interesting things, Luke ended up not being a hero, his failures carried to the current situation of the galaxy and to the creation of Kylo Ren...this is a very surprising plotwist, it is sad for the fan to discover it (it is very polemical but it´s a very clever and deep idea...) This is the very first moment that the viewer has a signal of how much Luke has changed and....they make a joke of it? It is not the moment for making a joke... Furthermore, it is at the beginning of the movie...Luke could simply have rejected the saber, not tossing it that way. The movie is about deep things that change the vision of the jedi and partially the saga, I think they should have made that the audience took these moments more seriously.

    Poe´s phone joke. The main complain about it is that it is at the very beginning and it feels like it´s intentional, as RJ was saying ``Do not take too much seriously what I am going to tell´´. But in a lot pf passages, the script of the movie is very deep, philosphical and is a game changer inside the saga. I am not against comedy in the saga, it always has been there, but you have to choose the moment and the character. Once said that, this joke seemed to me a bit less(only a little bit) out of place when I read Consequences trilogy which was previous to TLJ release (although I read it after) and it explains to you that (SPOILER) Armitage Hux is the son of Brentol Hux, an imperial high rank officer, but his mother was the handsmaid of the house, not Bretol´s wife, so as a matter of fact he is a non legitimal son (SPOILER END)

    Once said that, I didn´t like comedy in TLJ, but it doesn´t mean that I think that the movie is a total disaster, as I think that it has a lot of awesome scenes, brilliant ideas, and it is artistically outstanding(acting, photography, CGI and partially the script) But yes, I think that less humour would have helped the audience to take the movie more seriously, and in a movie like TLJ, it was pretty necessary.
     
  11. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Comedy is such a subjective thing. I remember laughing at the dry wit of Rumpole of The Bailey, Keeping Up Appearances, Fawlty Towers and To The Manor Born, delighting at the absurdist humour of Ripping Yarns and sighed internally at many an imported American sitcom. Maybe it's the cultural chauvinism speaking but it is often the case that many American comedy producers lack a certain something.

    Having said this, there are exceptions...

     
  12. Sierra217

    Sierra217 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Posts:
    107
    Likes Received:
    553
    Trophy Points:
    5,757
    Credits:
    1,049
    Ratings:
    +618 / 0 / -0
    For the most part, the comedy didn't bother me. In fact, I found some of it decent (mostly the stuff with the caretakers). There's only 1 instance where I thought the comedy was actively bad and horribly placed/conceived, and that was Luke throwing his Lightsaber. It just doesn't work and ruins what should be an emotional moment, both in-lore and for the viewer.
     
  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    That part isn't supposed to be funny. So you're on the right track not laughing at it.
    What should he have done with it? He's rejecting Rey, the saber and the call to arms.

    How does it ruin anything in lore?
    It IS the lore.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    10,131
    Trophy Points:
    88,717
    Credits:
    9,500
    Ratings:
    +11,194 / 9 / -5
    People just thought that throwing the lightsaber was trivializing an important topic.
     
  15. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    14,351
    Trophy Points:
    146,617
    Credits:
    11,728
    Ratings:
    +16,062 / 29 / -4
    And it's more about the way it's handled. Even if it wasn't meant to be funny, it's played comedically. The music stops and he chucks it over his shoulder--an exaggerated motion with comedic timing.

    I've heard some people suggest it would have been better if he simply dropped it. You would still get the sense that he doesn't value the legacy, but it wouldn't play as comedy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    10,131
    Trophy Points:
    88,717
    Credits:
    9,500
    Ratings:
    +11,194 / 9 / -5
    or maybe if he just handed it back to her
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    I don't think it's played as a joke at all. It's not like they slipped a slide whistle in on the toss. He's being as overtly dismissive as possible.
    Dropping it and handing it back do not accomplish this. They show reverence for something he has no reverence for.

    Luke doesn't feel the same way about that lightsaber as we do.
    It's the lightsaber he had when he found out his dad was Darth Vader. It's the lightsaber his father used to commit atrocities.

    You are projecting fan importance over in world value of the object.
    It's the Rey Skywalker debate.
    In world Rey Skywalker makes little sense.
    For fans it's much more important.

    The blue lightsaber holds more importance to us than to Luke.
     
    • Wise Wise x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  18. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2019
    Posts:
    189
    Likes Received:
    818
    Trophy Points:
    6,222
    Credits:
    916
    Ratings:
    +927 / 22 / -6
    I don't think it's played as a joke at all. It's not like they slipped a slide whistle in on the toss. He's being as overtly dismissive as possible.
    Dropping it and handing it back do not accomplish this. They show reverence for something he has no reverence for.

    Luke doesn't feel the same way about that lightsaber as we do.
    It's the lightsaber he had when he found out his dad was Darth Vader. It's the lightsaber his father used to commit atrocities.

    You are projecting fan importance over in world value of the object.
    It's the Rey Skywalker debate.
    In world Rey Skywalker makes little sense.
    For fans it's much more important.

    The blue lightsaber holds more importance to us than to Luke.

    It's a lightsaber, no more and no less. It's an elegant weapon and emblematic of a civilized age, but that's as important as the lightsaber gets. It's not that important on its own. It's just a lightsaber. Han rips up a Taun-Taun's belly with it, and Luke's hand is unceremoniously cut off with it, with the lightsaber being exited through Cloud City's exhaust ports, which possibly could be garbage ports. At least we didn't see Luke stick it between his legs, walk around, say "Yee-hah!", and try to ride it as if he was a kid riding a pony stick in order to be disrespectful and humorous at the same time. And even if Luke had done that, the plot still would have shown Luke's state of mind effectively.

    I was relieved when I first saw the lightsaber toss from Luke, because I think I knew that the film wasn't going to be overly emotional and focusing on "Oh yes, my precious -------------" or "The precious ---------------!" for whatever item or scene. Technically, the film is a ripoff of TESB and has sentimental scenes, but it has purpose in these scenes. I'm so glad that Rian (usually) has purpose and detail for each and every scene in TLJ, which bumps it up to TESB and ANH's writing and beyond it in many cases.
     
    #178 The Birdwatcher, Aug 26, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
    • Like Like x 5
  19. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    14,351
    Trophy Points:
    146,617
    Credits:
    11,728
    Ratings:
    +16,062 / 29 / -4
    I get your point, but I don't think this is entirely an issue of "fan importance." You say it's the lightsaber his father used to commit atrocities, and that's true, but the movies never really draw this connection for us.

    How DO the movies treat this saber?

    In A New Hope, it's treated as an object of wonder and awe, a symbol of heroism passed down from one generation to another. The moment in Ben's hut is iconic for this reason.

    In Force Awakens, the blade calls to Rey. Once again we're reminded of its generational importance. It belonged to Anakin, it belonged to Luke, now it calls to Rey.

    The movies up until Last Jedi trained us to treat this saber with reverence.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    How do the movies treat it indeed.
    You left off a lot that says otherwise here.

    ROTS: Anakin uses it to kill younglings and confronts his brother Obi-Wan with it. Obi-Wan then takes it as he leaves Anakin to die.

    ANH: In this movie we don't have any previous context. It was just his father's lightsaber which is why it's played that way, it isn't in any other moment until TFA.

    ESB: It's in the hand Vader cuts off when telling Luke that he [Vader] is his father and that Obi-Wan had lied to him. There's purpose in that. It's Luke being forced to let go of what he thought he knew. Forced to let go of previous ideas of good and bad, right and wrong.

    ROTJ: Luke shows no signs of caring about it. Has made his own and calls out Obi-Wan for lying about it.

    By the context of the films, Luke moved on from that lightsaber by ROTJ and we should have too.
     
    • Like Like x 3
Loading...

Share This Page