Rian Johnson's Trilogy

I'm not really sure how to compare a 16 episode TV series produced over 3 years to a single film from 3 years ago. What place is Star Wars in? Star War is and has been in fine shape. I'm not sure the online mob has firm grasp of how little being mad online matters.

I don't understand what this means?

 

I think it'd be a smart move for Lucasfilm going forward. I think people's views of TLJ will...maybe not soften, but at least be more sympathetic in time, especially after TROS. I know it was like that for me. Add to that the facts that RJ is a director who openly wants to come back, has a good relationship with KK and Lucasfilm, and is an Oscar-nominated director. Once the sequel to Knives Out is out, and if it does well, I don't think the critique about his directing talent will be questioned. One might not prefer a director, but that has nothing to do with their talent.

Also, in terms of single-handedly breaking a fanbase, that award goes to Lucas, not Johnson. Johnson fractured an already broken base, yes, but it was FAR from united before he came along.

There's also a different,

I think they were trying to say that Lucasfilm is using The Mandalorian as a testing field for future directors. See how they work with "small stuff" before they work with larger projects, and all that. It's a pretty common thought, and is probably true. If I'm understanding the comment correctly, @Viper78 means that "due to the Mandalorian being a training ground, you'd expect RJ to show up and direct an episode as well. Since he's not, he clearly isn't going to be with Lucasfilm going forward." (Please correct me if I'm wrong though!)
Except...Rian skipped that step because it wasn't in place when he was around. Lucasfilm doesn't need him to work on a testing ground, because he already directed a major motion picture for them, with little controversy, far fewer leaks than either of JJ's movies, and ahead of schedule.

This is a tricky question to answer. Do I think it's in a better place now? Absolutely. Do I think it's TLJ's fault that it was in a "worse place"? Only partially. I also blame TROS. But there's also the fact that this sort of stage isn't going to last forever. Soon the High Republic will be in the full swing of things, we'll have Obi-Wan's series, and Cassian Andor's series, and that one other series. And while I hope all of them are great, that's not a guarantee. So Star Wars is changing soon anyways, why not give RJ a chance to help move that change forward?

 

I think due to your love of RJ you underestimate the volume of fans who don't like TLJ, I've heard all too often from RJ fanboys that it is a tiny angry group of fans stomping their feet and claiming their childhood was ruined. Not all fans who dislike TLJ act like that, some fans like me just think it was a terrible film.

If you think that Star Wars was in fine shape after the release of TLJ then I think your love of RJ/TLJ is clouding your view of the fan division, again dismissing fans who dislike TLJ as an online mob. Overall fans seem to be happy with the Mandalorian which is great, so I would say Star wars is in a better place now.

It means that with new directors on board doing a great job with the Mandalorian, perhaps the appeal of an RJ trilogy is wearing off. Remember this trilogy was announced before the release of TLJ and I would bet that this was due to the hassle free production of the film and RJ being KK's "flavour of the month" director at that time. I would think the mixed fan reception to TLJ might have made Lucasfilm think twice about RJ's trilogy, only time will tell.

There is a possibility RJ could direct the odd episode, but I don't think he'll get another film. With other directors involved with Star Wars now, I don't think RJ's involvement for future films or trilogies is guaranteed.

I would agree that TROS played a small part but I would argue that that was a knock on effect of TLJ.

 

Some good points have been made here. I personally hope his trilogy does happen, since I'm in the "loved it" camp with TLJ. Plus, I think it'd be admirable if Lucasfilm stuck to their guns on this one despite all the controversy. But I could really see it going either way. Neither outcome would surprise me; moreso that I'm just really curious to see what does happen at this point.

 

I’m in the camp of “I want it to happen.” But I also haven’t seen much in the way to convince me it is not happening. Yes, portions of the fanbase had issues with it for various reasons. But RJ was spoken of pretty highly of in the BtS, in interviews, and the like. The critic reviews were high, and I’m still suspect of the “rigged” claims because that would mean they knew in advance that there’d be issues and still let it through.

part of the dislike of The Last Jedi honestly seems to stem more from the “middle movie” argument, that he had to follow up on someone else’s work and then set up some 3rd person. things I typically see people push against are things like “leia poppins”, “admiral purple hair is dumb”, etc. or just mad about whatever answers RJ did use. Or things will be “plot holes” but not really plot holes.

i do agree that Disney should just stick with him and let him tell a full story. And I haven’t seen enough to tell me they aren’t, especially when they outright said the spin-off stories were on hold after Solo. Star Wars has had controversial stuff for quite some time, and this is nothing really new, to where George even said fans would’ve hated the story he would have told.

It was scheduled to be after Benioff and Weiss’s, which I think was near 2022? I don’t remember the dates, but it was still a ways out for RJ’s. For now, I’m of the stance that “no news is good news.”

 

^ "No news is good news." Indeed, they did openly announce it when Benioff and Weiss’s series was cancelled. The fact that a while has passed since then and they haven't said the same for Rian's trilogy seems hopeful. But even then, I could still see it going either way in the end.

Also, Leia Poppins. That got a good chuckle out of me.

 

I'm not really interested in arguing subjective opinions about a film. Objectively, there's scientific ways to measure audience reaction and every controlled survey showed the overwhelming majority of people who saw the film liked it. That's just the reality.

Who knows what the future of movies are after the past two years? Disney/Lucasfilm were already making a push towards streaming before the pandemic. Star Wars is better as a serial and TV is perfect for that medium. I'd rather have a 6 episode TV series from RJ than a trilogy. I'm not sure what Lucasfilm's future plans are with Rian Johnson, but if they had decided to part ways it would have happened a long time ago.

 

The "JJ did something bad so let's still blame RJ" effect.

 

I wouldn't mind Rian directing a couple of Mando episodes or sommet else on D+ down the line, if he has nothing to do with the story. He's obviously a talented director and cinematographer but IMO he's a rotten storyteller, and I'm not just talking about TLJ.

 

JJ made an average end to the ST and a poor end to the saga. Your being naïve if you think TLJ didn't contribute to that.

 

Knives Out, Looper, and Brick are rotten stories? That's a hot take. LOL

 

It's not a hot take at all, it's just an opinion.

I haven't seen knives out, but yes I think his older films are poorly written, convoluted and confusing for the most part, and TLJ is just a mess. But that's my opinion, I won't judge you for disagreeing, I'm glad you like those stories and I have nothing against anyone who does.

I do love a lot of RJ's cinematography and camera work though.

 

I pull back the "hot take." It's not an opinion to get attention. That's not a fair assessment. Also, it's tough to buy the "poorly written" criticism about an Oscar nominated screenwriter, but alas... but it's proof that even great writers can't please everyone.

 

Exactly. I'm not saying he's an awful writer and rotten is maybe a bit harsh, but for me the writing is not his strong point. I do like a lot of his work as a director though - especially his Breaking Bad episodes and visually i like Looper & parts of TLJ.

 

JJ set RJ for TLJ because he's a cowardly film maker.
He makes no decisions and punts everything down the line for other people to solve.
He compulsively mystery boxed every aspect of the story, it's what he does.

RJ had to figure out why Luke was on the island alone and didn't respond when people needed him most. Because that's where JJ put Luke.
JJ created a cookie cutter Vader/Emperor relationship from the OT. A tried and true method and RJ tried to do something different because JJ took every safe route with his first movie.

TROS is a fustercluck of a movie that contains nothing but fan service and fetch quests while nothing of importance happens until the end where he just redoes ROTJ.

I defended JJ A LOT after TFA. I find it a quality enjoyable blockbuster and he did exactly what was asked of him.
RJ did the most George Lucas thing and made his own movie having to do all the heavy lifting for character arcs and themes.
If JJ had done *anything* that required a decision in TFA, RJ wouldn't have had to do all of it.
Who are Rey's parents: IDK someone else's problem.
Who is Snoke: IDK someone else's problem.
Where is Luke: IDK someone else's problem.
What happened with Luke's students: IDK someone else's problem.
What turned Ben into Kylo: IDK someone else's problem.
What is the theme of this trilogy: IDK someone else's problem.

*my bad on the word, genuinely thought that was already a maclunkey lol

 

As someone who doesn't like Looper, never wanted to watch Brick, and has a respect for (but massive disagreements with) TLJ, I think Knives Out is definitely worth checking out. It's a really fun movie, even if calling it a Whodunnit isn't entirely accurate.

 

Star Wars fans should dial it back when it comes to directors. I think JJ did a fine job making TFA. It's clear Disney steered the trilogy towards OT 2.0. Despite all the pressure and demand on JJ he really did deliver on TFA.

I really don't care for The Rise of Skywalker, but 30 months to write/produce/direct a film that supposed to tie 9 films together would have taken a miracle. Also, one of the main characters passed away and they didn't recast. This is a project that needed more time.

 

I agree, JJ did a great job with TFA and the pressure of bringing Star Wars back to the big screen must have been huge. I think that pressure was the main reason for him not wanting to direct further episodes, that along with the intense release schedule. Perhaps if it had been 3 years between films like the OT then he would have initially been prepared to have further involvement in Episodes 8 and 9.

Definitely needed more time and could have easily been 2 films, personally I'd have preferred that if it meant a better ending for the saga.

 

I don't think calling him cowardly is unfair. I like TFA. I've defended him plenty. But the truth is JJ Abrams makes safe, predictable films. Sometimes that works (TFA, Star Trek) sometimes it backfires horribly (TROS, Into Darkness). I truly was hopeful and optimistic he would bust out of his old habits in TROS but he more or less doubled down.

His refusal to take a stand on virtually anything in TFA and his attempts to have his cake and eat it too in TROS is cowardly. He made every decision based on placating fans rather than telling the best possible story.

I will even go so far as to say I like Abrams overall. Especially as a story by/producer credit....like another guy we know around these parts whose name rhymes with Shmorge Shmucas. I don't think Abrams is bad at anything. He's incredibly talented at many things. He isn't Zack Snyder, Uwe Boll or anything like that. He just makes woefully safe films, which as I said, worked for TFA but failed miserably in TROS.

Is it all his fault? No. Disney brass should have delayed the movie if they wanted to move on from Trevorrow. Though in hindsight it's probably good they didn't. This fandom couldn't handle a Covid delay. But even then, what he gave us in 30 months was wildly subpar from a Star Wars perspective AND a JJ Abrams perspective.