Rian Johnson's Trilogy

Rian Johnson has said a few times the overwhelming number of interactions he's had on Twitter have been positive. Also, The Last Jedi created a lot of new Rian Johnson fans. Knives Out probably isn't as big of a hit if he doesn't make The Last Jedi.

 

Johnson also said, during some interview for Knives Out I believe, that doing a Star Wars was the best experience he's ever had and he'd love to do more. There has been no indication that RJ doesn't want to do more Star Wars, and he's mentioned several times that he's working on more SW.

 

Bigger man than me I suppose. I’d have to seriously weigh whether the pros truly trumped the cons. Is the possible positivity really worth courting all the negativity? Do I really need that toxic element in my life? I don’t think so.

If it actually happens and he’s still committed to shepherding three new SW movies, the guy will have my enduring respect on sheer principle.

 

He honestly just seems like the kind of dude who just shrugs that stuff off.
He seems to have a keen grasp of his worth and that isn't going to change.

I think the issue with Lucas (specifically in regards to SW) was he had become a deity to people. And I think some of that may have gone to his head and by the end both sides had sort of done irreparable damage

 

You probably have to have that kind of mentality anyway considering he deals with bigger ego's then those on Twitter.

 

So I'm not really following this response. There are already Motion Pictures being announced. Are you saying if nothing announced between 24 and 30 is being helmed by Rian that then you'd believe he isn't going to do a trilogy?

1A - I'm not even touching this one
1B - I'm honestly not sure how you arrived at a hypothetical with Michael Bay helming anything in SW, it is never going to happen but maybe that's you way of saying you'll never concede that Rian isn't making a trilogy? (I'm asking because I'm genuinely not sure what you're getting at here)
2 - There's plenty of stuff within SW. I don't assume that every project will appeal to every fan, but there is plenty of stuff to watch and upcoming. Are you saying that you won't be watching any of the new offerings (D+ and/or Feature Films)?

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused by that post.
1A. I'll touch this. What the heck does "fan inserts" mean?
1B. Michael Bay isn't directing anything in the Star Wars universe. If he is, that has not been announced. Not sure where that one came from. Talk about left field.
2. I'm again not sure what the original poster was getting at here. I personally can't watch any of the sequels and I didn't even purchase 9, which is a first as I own every other Star Wars film ever made, even 7 and 8 which I don't like.

As Ray says, there is plenty for all of us. Some of it we are sure to dislike. I'm not going to stop being a Star Wars fan simply because there is something I don't like. The great thing about fandom is you have you "fan-cannon." Mine consists of every film except the sequels. It also includes TCW and Rebels. I know there are fellow "legends" fans who hate those shows and that's cool. I'm not going to tell someone what they can like or not. But as you said, with what, 11 shows/films coming out in the next 2 years or so, sheesh, there is something for everyone.

As for Rian Johnson and his film? Who knows? If it was written by Vince Gilligan and directed by Johnson, I assure you I'd be there. LOL But I'm not gonna place bets on this thing ever getting made (or not made). If they do it? Fine. I'll judge it at that point. If they don't? I'm sure I'll live. LOL

 

Given his willingness to stand down fans on social media and openly scoffing at the more vocal cranks (ie . Mike Zeroh), Johnson doesn’t strike me as the type who allows malcontents to rule and dictate his career choices. That being said, I am talking about attacks on social media. I am not talking about a nut job fan who might have threatened bodily harm to him or his family. Which would not surprise me if it happened given the almost pathological hatred I have seen towards TLJ.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2020 ---

If there is no announcement of Johnson being a director in any potential film being put into production between 2024-2030, will convince me that it's highly unlikely that Johnson will be doing a SW trilogy.

From reading the feedback on YT and some social media message boards (thankfully not this one). From certain viewers who think that the only decent film Disney put out is Rogue One, and Dave Filoni for (the CW) and John Favreau for (the Mandolorian). Should take over/manage Disney. Tells me that Micheal Bay would be announced as a director for a SW film.

Michael Bay films are mainly known for empty spectacle. Gun fights, and action, explosions. That's it.
I used Bay's name because his name usually denotes what kind of films he makes. But it could say that it is either him or a director like him. If LF decides that they just want to cater to the type of fan I mentioned above for now on. It's highly unlikely that Rian Johnson will be brought back for a trilogy. And if Justin Lin can be hired to do a Star Trek film, I don't see why it would be beyond the pale for LF to hire Micheal Bay to do SW.

The only SW content that has caught my interest is Visions because it's being done by Japanese anime studios, which tend to go for depth and beautiful visuals. And the series based on the Old/High Republic because it is my understanding that it will involve some political intrigue. But everything else just comes across as hollow action flicks to cater to a certain type of fan.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2020 ---

The term fan insert is attritbuted to when a writer of fan fiction writes a character out of character/and or takes away the characters attributes and personaliy etc. and replaces i with their own. In this instance, I use it to refer to viewers who don't watch films or tv shows for the storytelling. But so that they can live vicariously through the protagonist. So it doesn't make any difference to them if the story makes sense or is of any quality.

 

Personally I think that if Rian Johnson gets his own characters to develop and if he can know them well, he could really make a good movie.

What is the main thing that you would like to come out of these movies, and what is something you hope they avoid?

(Personally I hope for awesome new settings and character arcs and I hope they avoid tampering with already established characters. [We have seen how that goes with Rian... *cough cough* Luke *cough cough*] But for real I’m really looking forward to it.)

 

Despite arguments to the contrary it seems the biggest gripe about The Last Jedi (yes, I'm generalizing about a minority opinion) center on Luke. This leads to the "Rian can't handle established characters" idea. Whatever you think about Luke, the idea of Luke was actually going in a darker direction if Lucas was around, but table that for a moment. As at OT fan the two most powerful moments in the ST came in The Last Jedi. The scene with R2 (which couldn't happen in JJ's original script since Rey was traveling with BB-8) and the scene with Yoda are perfect. They're call backs to the OT and perfectly in line with the Luke we knew 30+ years ago.

To me the problem isn't with Rian Johnson's use of the character, it's with some of the audience expectation. That group probably got what they wanted when Luke shows up in Mando, but when that Luke doesn't show up in TFA it's clear something has changed with the character. That's a choice the producers of TFA made.

 

I kinda agree, but also disagree. Luke was handled well. But to me it seems like RJ just wanted to focus on Luke and Kylo, but he also had to deal with the other characters. The depiction and arcs of Rey, Poe, Finn etc. are definitely weaker than compared with Luke and Kylo. At least IMO.

 

Agree. No one should put the direction they went with Luke solely on Rian's shoulders. Truth is we don't know 100% who decided what when it comes to Luke. We have reports Lucas at least at some point had it in his head that Luke would be a kind of a hermit at the start of the sequel trilogy (Though Reports of what was Lucas's Idea for sequel trilogy seem to be constantly changing, from it being about Maul set only a few years after the OT to it being about the whills.... so I take a lot of it with a pinch of salt). But we at least know that it was not Johnsons Idea for Luke not be present in the force awakens until the cliff hanger ending. from that point on we don't really know.

There are reports in the original when Rey walked up the hill Luke was going to have stones floating around him, not sure I believe that (and glad they didn't do it as it would have probably been a bit naff). We know that Luke at the end of force awakens was in full jedi robes, then suddenly gets changed into hermit clothes which indicates at least a slight variance between how Abrams saw Luke on the island and how Johnson did. We can put the comedic lightsabre toss, the gurning while milking the sea cow and the tickling down to johnson, which is some of the moments that have annoyed some fans the most. Another moment which people complained about was Luke rasing a lightsabre to Ben Solo, this was again likely down to Johnson as force awakens seems to imply the change was down to Snoke, but we don't know this for sure. While I find it hard to believe Johnson made the decision to kill off Luke by himself, it would be fair to put the force projection as the method of death down to johnson as he wrote the script, which is again a moment that has annoyed people who didn't like the film.

So no you can't solely blame Johnson for how Luke was handled in the sequel trilogy but a lot of the moments that fans have most complained about are likely down to Johnson.

I would also say that not all, in fact, all-star wars fans who I've spoken too who did not like the way Luke was treated in Last Jedi is not because Luke wasn't portrayed as the onmi-powerful being. This seems to be comen dagger thrown by people who did like how Luke was portrayed against people who didn't. Most fans who were unhappy just wanted to get the chance to see Mark Hamil play Luke Skywalker the Jedi master. That doesn't mean he needed to be some unbeatable superman like figure, we saw Jedi masters in the prequels who were fallible even Yoda, we've read about them for 40 years in legends. So was 100% possible to have done Luke as a strong Jedi Master and yet have him fallible/beatable within the story and that was what most who were unhappy with the portrayal of Luke wanted to see which I don't think they should be criticised for.

I would also add that criticizing fans for having expectations regarding Luke going into the film is a bit strange as it is one of the reasons why what Johnson did with the character is so powerful. Johnson very clearly new what audience expectations of Luke were going to be going into the film and designed elements of the script to play off and subvert those expectations. If audiences didn't have those expectations for Luke what he did with the character would not have had 1/10th the impact it clearly does have as it provokes such strong emotions (both love and hate) still after 3+ years. So we can't really have a go at fans for being upset that their vision of a character isn't portrayed how they expected when the director is so deliberately using that expectation to provoke emotional reactions from the audience. You can't have 1 without the other. The fact that some fans didn't like it is, unfortunately, the downside of this approach.

Having said all that I don't think how Johnson portrayed Luke means he can't handle existing characters, I'm sure if he did do another Star Wars film he wouldn't want it to be another film where a key theme is subverting the expectations of the audience, he's done that, why would he want to try the same trick twice? So I don't think if Johnsons Idea for a new trilogy was based around an existing character the idea would be to play with audiences expectations of that character, so I don't really see any depth to the argument Johnson can't handle existing characters based on what happened with Luke whether it was entirely his idea or not.

 

The reports are not constantly changing: they were on Lucas’ ideas at two different times. The one with the Whills is from the treatment he included with the Disney purchase, and the one with Maul was from an earlier draft.

 

^Does anyone know where I could read about these treatments? I'm curious to know more.

 

Thank you for the clarification

 

Your best bet is googling them as I don't think the actual treatments are available in full but we have articles and interviews to fill us in
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/202...had-luke-skywalker-dying-in-episode-viii.html

Another great source is Phil Szostak on twitter.

 

Okay, thanks.

 

Me too, I can't wait to see what he does with this. I still don't understand all the hate towards TLJ, and Rian.

 

As far as I can remember, TFA doesn't specifically mention how long Luke has been gone. It could have been only a few weeks or months I suppose. Other materials since then may have fleshed out the timeline, but at the time it was vague. It does establish that Luke left of his own will. It ends with Luke on an island being handed a lightsaber.

From there Johnson only had three options:

• Luke has been unable to return. His ship was damaged and he was stranded. You could argue that he could reach out to Leia with the force for rescue or that could be conveniently ignored. He returns with Rey and joins the fight.
• Luke has been unwilling to return. This is what we got. "Go away! I won't help!"
• Luke has been able and willing to return but is still doing something on the island, which is why he is still there. "I'll help you, but I'm doing something very important here".

My issue with Luke's treatment is that when presented with this information:

• The First Order has destroyed the New Republic
• Snoke, a powerful dark side force user, is commanding the First Order
• Ben Solo is obedient to Snoke, murdered Han Solo and is totally a bad guy who uses the dark side of the force
• His sister, Leia, is personally asking for him to return because the situation is desperate

He says, "No". Luke Skywalker can be disillusioned with the Jedi all day long, but at the end of the day he says, "I'll help you". He may then say, "And then I'm coming back to this island and I won't train you", but he goes to help. You can have a grumpy, disillusioned Luke Skywalker in your movie, but he should be grumpy and disillusioned while helping the resistance. For me, just my feeling, this was so out of character that I felt like the fourth wall had been broken. I know it wasn't, but it was that jarring.