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RJ answered the only question that was being asked

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Darth Chewie, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    I might be. That depends on the script.
    I'm actually thinking your idea through and it actually would be an interesting spin.

    It would be about on par with Darth Maul in the films.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  2. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    While I'm known to make those mistakes...from time to time :rolleyes:
    Thanks for sharing. I am interested - I've actually been digesting ancient Canaanite religion these holidays while this afternoon I moved on to daydreaming about which aspects of Manichaeism dualism could be mined for future SW Force lore :eek:). Of course being monolingual limits the accuracy of such studies (which is fine by me as I'm just about the stories as opposed to "truth" these days.) You'll probably get some PM's from me about your work...

    Just to remain on topic I'm gonna put it out there that Rey's parentage was another in-film question that I think Rian answered definitively. Sure a decent argument can be made that Kylo was negging Rey or just mistaken but his track record for honesty has been pretty good during the ST.
     
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  3. Danny Spanks

    Danny Spanks Rebel Trooper

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    Where's the "shaking my head" emoji when I need it...
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2018 ---
    I never needed a backstory for Maul, since no movies preceded his appearance. Similar to Yoda and the Emperor showing up in ESB.
    Qui Gon is another story. I hated that character. More than Jar Jar.
     
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  4. clustercosmos

    clustercosmos Rebelscum

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    I'm not a LucasFilm expert but I don't think they have a Department of Fulfilling Customer Expectations or a Vice President in charge of Pleasing Fanboys.

    A bit of a strawman. They might not have a "Department of Fulfilling Customer Expectations" but that is what all businesses aim to do, so being sarcastic about it is a little bizarre! As I made clear in my post that doesn't mean making sure that every person has their individual arc predictions fulfilled but that they are satisfied with the product they paid for.

    Their job is to make money. Star Wars is a cash cow and they certainly don't want to kill it for financial reasons, but Lucasfilm remains a business

    They do that largely by making films fans enjoy and selling products related to the films. I am under no illusions that Lucasfilm is a charity or public service.

    They hire artists who create content, and those artists probably feel a responsibility for the types of things we're talking about, but Lucasfilm is going to make movies that make money. The content is just a commodity to them.

    You can't uncouple the two of them. Poor-quality content or content that turns fans off prevents Lucasfilm making as much money, so they employ producers etc who care very much about whether or not fans will enjoy the film. Not the "Vice President of Pleasing Fanboys" but people who care about making a high-quality product that continues to sell. Alienating your fanbase is not a good business decision, so people are responsible for making sure that doesn't happen.

    Additionally, lots of people are passionate about their jobs above and beyond the bottom line. That isn't to say they will choose to make smaller profits but you can want to maximise returns while caring about what you do (as a business owner, I sure do). In this case, making money and creating a great product go hand in hand so the business holds its employees responsible for creating a good product.

    If the fan base wants a backstory movie about the two headed pod racer announcer guy but John Q. Public isn't interested, that movie won't get made

    Yup.
     
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Gimme a break. We've spent 2 years theorizing about Snoke's backstory, true identity, etc. Not one single person said "I hope they don't tell us anything, because it doesn't fit the narrative."
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2018 ---
    EXACTLY. And not only is is parts 7 and 8 of a 9 movie set, we left part 6 with a situation where the Emperor had been killed and the Rebellion had won. The Sith were destroyed and Luke was told to pass on what he learned. The very title of the movie was "Return of the Jedi" which referred to the Jedi, as a group, returning from virtual extinction.

    Then we get dropped into a situation where there are no Jedi, there is an extremely powerful dark-side user who has somehow managed to corrupt the child of Han Solo and Princess Leia. To say his backstory "doesn't fit the narrative" is ridiculous.
     
    #185 Wolfpack, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  6. Master Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn

    Master Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn Clone Trooper

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    Hated Qui Gon? :(
     
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  7. Danny Spanks

    Danny Spanks Rebel Trooper

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    Absolutely. But that's probably a topic for a different thread.
     
  8. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    I think it would be exceedingly difficult to introduce a new big bad for the final chapter of the trilogy. The only way I think it could work is if it's someone or something the fandom is already generally familiar with (the Hutts maybe making a grab now that the FO and New Republic/Resistance are in shambles). Darth Maul worked because Sidious was the real big bad. Snoke dying works because Kylo was set up to be the big bad of this trilogy and it changes up the story. Without a hint of anybody behind Snoke, it would be hard for fans to invest into a totally new big bad.

    That being said, what do I know? I think this movie ranks among the bottom of SW's movies and is nigh unwatchable... yet it's still making a ton of money and some people are still calling it genius. Maybe bringing in a new big bad is genius too.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018 ---
    Who can hate Qui-Gon, if there's any reason to re-watch TPM it's the scenes in which he's in. No accounting for taste I guess.
     
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  9. garakvsneelix

    garakvsneelix Clone Commander

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    Well, let me summarize it this way: I don't think, that not telling Snoke's backstory made TLJ as a movie better or worse, but my fear is, that it makes the episodes as a whole saga worse (but at least the ST), when they also don't give Snoke a background in Episode IX...
     
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  10. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebel Commander

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    You literally said that only one question was being asked - and then it just so happens to be your question.
     
  11. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel Official

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    Ahhh, no I didn't. From the narrative of TFA, the only real question that seemed to matter to move the story forward was Luke's whereabouts. Any other questions or curiosities were minor and not vital to the plot that we were GIVEN. Again, not my questions, but the questions presented in the actual NARRATIVE OF THE FILM.

    Again, at no point was Rey's parentage brought up as a major plot point. And as far as I was concerned watching the TFA, Maz's conversation with Rey about her parents and them not coming back, and that Rey already knew this, was all I needed to know that her backstory was not important. That literally is what I got the moment I watched that scene. It was that clear cut. And then that scene in TFA is backed up in TLJ when Kylo practically has the same conversation with her. The only difference being, if Kylo and Maz were doctors giving Rey a diagnosis, Maz's bedside manner was a bit gentler. Lol

    And at no point in TFA was Snoke's background mentioned as being necessary to drive any plot point. Kasdan's style of writing gives you what you need and that's it. Was there room given from the narrative of TFA to come up with a cool Snoke backstory and present it on screen in TLJ? Sure there was. But that was not the story Rian decided to tell. In Rian's narrative, Snoke served his purpose to move Kylo's story forward. That's it. Simply like how the Emperor in the OT, and in-particular ROTJ, is there to give Vader a reason to want to stay on the dark side out of fear, and then eventually becomes the motivation to overcome it.

    The overall point of this thread was simply to show that perhaps we should be more focused on the story and narrative that we HAVE, not the the story and narrative that we WANTED or expected. Interpretations will vary of course, but I took TFA at face value. After TFA, I thought Ep. VIII could go in a story direction of X, Y, or Z. Instead Rian used the entire alphabet and gave us something none one expected. But within that story, he drove narratives that still continued from the previous film; Where was Luke Skywalker and why did he leave? What was Rey going to do or ask him now that she found him? How would Kylo be affected by murdering his father (which he did only to convince Snoke he was solely on the dark side)? And how would Kylo deal with his humiliating defeat at the hands of Rey, and what did Snoke think about it?

    The last act of TFA set that up and not much else, other then the side story we got of the Resistance base obviously being discovered by the FO and what would their actions be after the battle of Starkiller Base?
     
    #191 Darth Chewie, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  12. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebel Commander

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    RJ answered the only question that was being asked
     
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  13. Johnny

    Johnny Rebel General

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    Many people have discussed logical or plot hole problems with TLJ. You know what they are even if you don't agree with them. As far as backstory, imagine Anakin's story in the prequels without Padme and his mother. There would be no motivation for his actions or decisions. That's effectively what happened in TLJ we have lack of explanations and reasons. Some characters are fine written like that. I don't need a background on Poe, Hux or Phasma. To this day we don't have an in movie background for Chewie and I still don't need one. Yet you have Kylo killing his dad running the first order killing his apparently not so powerful master why exactly.
     
  14. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    No. I don't. I do not suppose what any one person thinks and then turn and comprise a thought based on my projections of what some vague collective thought projects as a means of discussion.
    If I am to discuss, then I require specifics from individuals and to address each with each provider upon its own merit.
    I still do not have an awareness of any logical or plot hole problems in TLJ that were caused by a lack of backstory for Kylo Ren.

    Kylo's motive is overcoming his own self-doubt. He wants to be strong and to live up to this legacy of greatness that he has built up in his mind.
    It greatly vexes him that he is inferior; so much that he is convinced that any connection with compassion and love to his family are signs of weakness and he absolutely hates himself for not being able to be rid of this weakness.
    He is desperate to not need, and desperate to have companionship simultaneously.
    He's trying to overcome his own self conflict and he wants (so far) to be all Dark Side and to have absolute control over his weakness.

    Is this not enough motivation to your liking?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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