1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

RJ answered the only question that was being asked

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Darth Chewie, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. eeprom

    eeprom Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    2,543
    Trophy Points:
    8,167
    Credits:
    2,612
    Ratings:
    +3,959 / 25 / -9
    Ha. Must be fake news then ;)
     
  2. eeprom

    eeprom Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    2,543
    Trophy Points:
    8,167
    Credits:
    2,612
    Ratings:
    +3,959 / 25 / -9
    GET A HAIRCUT AND GET OFF MY LAWN!!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Posts:
    736
    Likes Received:
    1,240
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,663
    Ratings:
    +1,865 / 75 / -30
    What do you really expect when you state pure stupidity and ignorance as "the truth"? What should anyone really respond to bogus like "Lucas's comments on the Nixon adminitration was "just a joke"... Yeah, everyone else is ignorat but you? And Lucas's interview to the New York Times must be fake news, right?
    So, you're not arguing this becuase you're objectively wrong. If the truth or any opposing argument in particular hurt you so much, why do you even visit a forum like this?
    You state some bollocks, finish it with "yup folks, this is the truth, I won't going to respond so don't even try". This is basically how I imagine the Flat-Earth Society...
    It seems you have finally reached clinical level cognitive dissonance.

    Btw there is a huge difference between a conservative and an Alex Jones nutjob.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2018 ---
    Pretty much. People like this user only bring real conservatives bad name. They're not conservatives. Just a bunch of bitter and hateful people.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Ammianus Marcellinus

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I used the example of questions regarding Tallie Lintra to show how I as an audience member can produce questions that are not only not offered by the narrative but that are also dysfunctional to it.

    You say they set up a mystery about Snoke, but what they did was only provide information about Snoke that was relevant for the narrative to function and explain the motivations and actions of the more important characters portrayed on screen. For instance, the movie teaches us the following information about Snoke:

    Who is Snoke?
    - Snoke is his name (as they said in preproduction: "Snoke is Snoke, nothing else".)
    - The Supreme Leader of the First Order who is described in narrative as very wise and strong in the darkside
    - The title 'Supreme Leader' signifies that Snoke sees himself as the ultimate power and authority in the galaxy
    - The name 'First Order' provides the other motivation of Snoke's power, he wants to restore the 'First Order', i.e. Imperial rule of the original trilogy
    - Snoke is arrogant and self-assured of his supreme power
    - Snoke has turned Ben Solo against his master Luke Skywalker
    - Snoke wants to snuff out all hope (resistance) against his rule, Kylo is a tool in this effort.
    - Snoke is Kylo's master
    - Snoke plays off Kylo and Hux agains each other for his own power. Both want to please Snoke by actions performed in narrative and outgrow the other as a result. Hux and Kylo Ren are vying for power and for Snoke's attention
    - Snoke uses the seemingly incompetent Hux because he's a "rabit cur" who if used correctly can be a powerful tool
    - Snoke preys on - and makes use of Kylo's conflicted mind.
    - Han's warning about Snoke is true: "Snoke is using you for your power, when he gets what he wants....etc.," and how this effects Kylo's distrust of Snoke
    - Snoke plays with Kylo's aspiration to become Darth Vader's successor (when I found you... etc.)
    - Snoke depicts himself larger than he depicts himself in real life
    - Kylo Ren is not strong enough to face Snoke alone
    - Snoke has managed to bridge Kylo and Rey's minds, both were not powerful enough to prevent it and see the real purpose behind it
    - Snoke is interested in Rey, not so much to turn her, but to make her function as an instrument in Kylo's definitive turn to the darkside.
    - Kylo rebels against Snoke and saves Rey when he finds out Snoke intends Kylo to kill her.

    What you want to know are external questions, existing outside the functional narrative:
    - What is Snoke's backstory, where does he come from and is 'Snoke' his real identity?

    The lacunae confronting this question are itself functional because the mystery it produces shrouds some of Snoke's motivations regarding Kylo Ren and Rey in the same fashion as the lack of backrgound story shrouded the motives of the Emperor in his scenes with Vader and Luke. Not only does the absence of an answer to this question have a narrative function, the unresolved mystery itself functions as an extra layer of characterization.

    Every other question out there about Snoke does not serve the narrative or the function of his character in it. Those are questions produced by members of the audience, not by the narrative.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  5. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    128
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Credits:
    265
    Ratings:
    +152 / 26 / -36
    I got ya.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,117
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Trophy Points:
    87,277
    Credits:
    16,695
    Ratings:
    +11,144 / 85 / -33
    Wow.

    You two can leave your "Liberal vs Conservative" political views at the door.

    ...that ESPECIALLY goes for your "Rude", "Stupid", and "Arrogant" verbiage. Not here...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. A Concerned Fan

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Wow. Are you kidding me!!! Did you read his post to me?!
     
  8. Danny Spanks

    Danny Spanks Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Posts:
    57
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Credits:
    186
    Ratings:
    +134 / 7 / -1
    All of the above may be true if this was a stand alone movie, it's not. It's the 8th movie of (what should be) a 9 movie saga. That comes with baggage and responsibility. The audience deserves an explanation as to who this character is and how he got to where he's at. It doesn't have to be the focal point of the movie, but it needs to be addressed. Backstory does not require excessive screen time or dialog. Much of Snoke's backstory could've been intertwined with Kylo/Ben's backstory and turn to the Dark Side (which is also lacking).

    In my opinion, Star Wars fans are not going to the movies to see the spaceships, aliens, or special effects. That's all eye candy. What people really want, and what they really care about, is the characters and their stories. It's just like professional wrestling. People don't actually care about the wrestling. What they care about is the wrestlers. I feel this was the major flaw in TLJ. Every time they had a chance to provide depth to a character, they backed out. Luke, Kylo, Rey, Snoke, Leia... their backstories and motivations have been severely underwritten. They are all paper-thin, or completely ignored. Instead we got a lot of stuff that no one cares about. That was the film's major flaw in my opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    716
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Trophy Points:
    5,817
    Credits:
    1,870
    Ratings:
    +2,549 / 20 / -12
    Not in VIII we don't. I would've absolutely hated a completely irrelevant side-track into a tangented nuance of Snoke's background.
    Save that for some backstory series or follow-up trilogy if you want, but don't waste my time with running tangents of his background in a story where that information is entirely useless to the story's narrative direction.

    I did not expect, nor ask for, a Snoke backstory.
    That's never been how Star Wars stories work within a single film.
    If you want to know the backstory about someone in Star Wars, you wait for an elaborate extra three films (PT), a stand alone (Han Solo), or you wait for a book that goes into things the movies didn't.

    No film in the Star Wars franchise history suddenly stopped and took a moment to fill you in on the backstory of tertiary characters.
    Those figures got their time to explore their backstories over the course of additional films which went into those backstories by positioning the tertiary characters into secondary and primary characters.

    What you're looking for is a Snoke Backstory series or stand alone film, but it didn't belong shoved into TLJ at all; this wasn't a film about Snoke.

    If they wanted to discuss Snoke right now, they would have. They don't, because that's not the point, so they didn't.
    They very well could circle back around later and do that just as the PT did (or the upcoming HS movie will do).

    I'm glad that they didn't choose to do so here. It just didn't belong in this film and it would've been a boring side-track and it would have entirely offset the thematic chiasmus tangents taking place in the film.

    In the ST, Snoke is not at his beginning; he's at his end. We'll have to wait for another time to explore his beginning.
    That's better, in my opinion. That's something interesting to look forward to at a future time.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  10. eeprom

    eeprom Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    2,543
    Trophy Points:
    8,167
    Credits:
    2,612
    Ratings:
    +3,959 / 25 / -9
    You don’t remember the five dedicated minutes we got to Tarkin’s backstory in ANH that fully explained how he got to be entrusted to oversee the Deathstar and gain Vader’s respect? That movie absolutely needed it and we deserved every salient detail we got.

    I may be misremembering things a bit.
     
    #110 eeprom, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 5
  11. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    716
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Trophy Points:
    5,817
    Credits:
    1,870
    Ratings:
    +2,549 / 20 / -12
    No. I've been working on a ANH rewrite for a while, and there's no backstory scene for Tarkin.
    There's the political argument and Vader choking officer scene, there's the Leia's planet goes boom scene, the Vader tells Tarkin Ben's on the base scene, there's the Vader testing Tarkin's patience with a homing beacon scene, and there's Tarkin prepping the Death Star to explode scene.

    Also, which character in TLJ required learning Snoke's backstory?

    edit. I just realized you may have been writing tongue-in-cheek.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #111 Jayson, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  12. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    3,764
    Likes Received:
    22,385
    Trophy Points:
    148,277
    Credits:
    23,901
    Ratings:
    +28,704 / 39 / -17
    Snoke: Young Rey, let me tell you my life story...

    Rey turns to Kylo.

    sotto voce

    Rey (to Kylo): Is he serious?

    Kylo: You may as well sit. This will take a while.
     
    • Funny Funny x 9
  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    10,156
    Trophy Points:
    89,367
    Credits:
    10,620
    Ratings:
    +13,245 / 49 / -34
    I like to think that he'd distribute his life story via a "Fresh Prince"-esque 90's rap.

    "Now this is the story all about how,
    My face got scarred from chin to brow,
    And I'd like to take a minute, sitting in my chair,
    and tell you how I became Supreme Leader of this First Order nightmare."
     
    • Funny Funny x 8
  14. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Posts:
    187
    Likes Received:
    482
    Trophy Points:
    2,942
    Credits:
    1,283
    Ratings:
    +712 / 12 / -0
    Easy there big fella... I never said they were not important questions, nor did I state that a legitimate questions has to come from x amount of characters. What I said was is, based on the story telling narrative by JJ in TFA, Snoke's identity or background was not an important topic that needed to be answered to move the plot forward, simply because the story was written in such a way that all the characters already knew who he was, and that was all that was needed to drive the story. Knowing Snoke background for example, would not have done anything to drive the story of Kylo or Rey any further. The story that JJ and Rian are telling, simply does not require further exposition on Snoke.

    I am not saying we couldn't use it, or that it wouldn't be cool to know, but it is not necessary. Rian wrote his script and answered questions based on what was in the narrative of TFA. Simple as that.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. eeprom

    eeprom Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    2,543
    Trophy Points:
    8,167
    Credits:
    2,612
    Ratings:
    +3,959 / 25 / -9
    Maybe just a bit ;)

    We're on the same page here. Tarkin, for all intents and purposes, is the villain of ANH. Vader is little more than a thug - captain of the goon squad basically. Tarkin is the one issuing all the orders. There’s mention of an Emperor, but Tarkin is clearly the one in command there. He’s the one that gives Leia’s execution order. He’s the one that decides Alderaan’s fate. How much of a backstory do we get for him? Absolutely none.

    He’s the antagonistic driving force behind most of that movie and he’s never mentioned again after that. Why not? Because there’s no story there to tell? No, it just wasn’t necessary to THAT story. He’d served his purpose and it was time to move on. Same thing with Snoke. I’m certain there’s an intensely interesting story to be told there, but it’s not one that’s relevant to the one currently being told.

    Grand Moff and Supreme Leader certainly aren’t of equivalent import from a governance perspective, but it’s the same concept. Snoke =/= The Emperor. He’s not the big bad of this story even though we thought he would be.
    That’s a pretty difficult declaration to substantiate though, yeah? It’s certainly true now. But Snoke and Kylo do have a shared history. Knowing more of Snoke’s background could very well have informed Kylo’s story had Rian thought that a worthy avenue to explore.
     
    #115 eeprom, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Danny Spanks

    Danny Spanks Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2017
    Posts:
    57
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    67
    Credits:
    186
    Ratings:
    +134 / 7 / -1
    Did you even read my comment?

    You don't need a "a completely irrelevant side-track into a tangented nuance of Snoke's background". I never said that needed to happen. I said it needed to be addressed.

    "What you're looking for is a Snoke Backstory series or stand alone film, but it didn't belong shoved into TLJ at all; this wasn't a film about Snoke"
    What part of "It doesn't have to be the focal point of the movie" or "Much of Snoke's backstory could've been intertwined with Kylo/Ben's backstory and turn to the Dark Side (which is also lacking)" or "Backstory does not require excessive screen time or dialog" did you not understand?


    "If you want to know the backstory about someone in Star Wars, you wait for an elaborate extra three films (PT), a stand alone (Han Solo), or you wait for a book that goes into things the movies didn't." Do you know where Rey came from? Yes. Luke? Yes. Leia? Yes. Kylo? Yes. Yoda? Yes. Poe? Yes. Snoke? NOPE!

    We're 2 movies into the ST, and we know nothing about Snoke. Other than he's a powerful Dark Side force user. The idea that the audience should have to go see other, separate, non-related films in order to get backstory on a character in THIS film is silly. The idea that you'd have to read a book is laughable. Movies shouldn't require the audience to do homework before or after seeing it. Was that required during the OT? Nope.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 13, 2018 ---
    Exactly. Snoke isn't the only character who suffered from a lack of backstory and depth.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    716
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Trophy Points:
    5,817
    Credits:
    1,870
    Ratings:
    +2,549 / 20 / -12
    No. And we didn't have backstories for people in that either.

    Who's plotline was left incomplete or illogical as a result of there not being a Snoke backstory?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  18. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Posts:
    1,405
    Likes Received:
    32,059
    Trophy Points:
    152,322
    Credits:
    24,557
    Ratings:
    +34,079 / 33 / -31
    @Jayson Thanks once again for your cogent analysis.

    Reminds me of the ever-present "there is no character development in Rogue One" fallacious argument. Are you kidding me? We get an entire backstory on Jyn (who is the only character in all the movies other than Anakin where we get the entire story starting as a small child), excellent depth on Cassian, and as I have said many times before, the first time EVER an Imperial Officer with actual character development, Krennic. Up until Rogue One, ALL Imperial Officers, the endless line of Pietts and Needas and Ozzels, entire dialog consisted of "yes Lord Vader....no Lord Vader".
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  19. Aglarion

    Aglarion Rebel Official

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Posts:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    2,652
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,571
    Ratings:
    +4,470 / 195 / -46
    Don't you think why Snoke wasn't affected by the prophecy needs addressing? It's one of the most important plotlines in the saga, it diminishes Anakin's whole story arc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    716
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Trophy Points:
    5,817
    Credits:
    1,870
    Ratings:
    +2,549 / 20 / -12
    Can you explain what question is missing an answer regarding Snoke and the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force, and is required to be answered by TLJ to fix which logical flaw or plot hole in TLJ?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
Loading...

Share This Page