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Rogue One Reviews (With Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by Viral Hide, Dec 13, 2016.

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  1. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    I agree with the video review. Old familiar OT stuff saved this film in the second half of the film, because the first half (with new characters and locations) was slow and uninteresting.
    ;)
     
    #721 SKB, Dec 20, 2016
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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  3. Xander

    Xander Clone

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    Saw (Guerrera) the movie last night in a surprisingly empty and peaceful setting. I won't get into the trivial nit-picking in this first impression review because not only would it be unfair but also the idea is to capture the overall sentiment and entertainment value.

    Was I entertained? Yes! Absolutely! Was I engaged? Yes! Absolutely! Was the feeling I left the theater with disenchanting, disjointed, disturbing or was it captivating, harmonious and...rebellious. The latter for sure.

    Did it feel like SW? Absofcukinglutely! Totally forgot and didn't care for the crawl and trumpets. Was instantly immersed and had tingles down my spine.

    Although this was a totally unecessary film to produce since the crawl and brief dialogue in Ep. IV give us enough information to formulate a background and narrative for the (auxiliary) events that took place in this movie, I was pleasantly surprised with the now detailed story, characters, performances, effects and the very close to seamless transmission of the aforementioned on screen.

    This was a positive experience and IMO provides (a new hope) and optimism for the other LF/D projects down the road, after having suffered through the schizophrenic pc-vs juvenile abomination profanely named tfa (all lower case). Poor Rian Johnson - not sure how he can clean-up that disaster, unless when Luke grabs the lightsaber from Rey's outstretched arm she wakes up in her AT-AT abode - it was all a dream - and he does it different from the beginning.

    But I digress. (Sorry had to get those jabs in there).

    I will be viewing the film again this week for a more detailed analysis.

    Well done from me, to the R1 cast, crew, LF and.........with a heavy heart......Disney!
     
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  4. DarthWarEagle

    DarthWarEagle Rebel General

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    I follow Red Letter Media (I know) on Youtube, and for the most part agree with their movie reviews. However, I could not sit through the Rogue One review. The main disagreements I agree with are 1. Opening crawl 2. More John Williams music. Hopefully once it comes out on Blue Ray someone will do a fan cut with those changes.
     
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  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I really wasn't a fan of the score on my first viewing. A second time, though, I ended up really enjoying the music. Jyn's suite is really catchy.
     
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  6. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    I agree with some of what they're getting at but it still leaves a massive contradiction that we go over and over and over again on these forums.

    There's a misguided need for "originality" in these movies when we really don't even know what type of originality people want. This movie floats between doing a serious war film and still 'fitting in' with the rubric or 'rules' of the GFFA.

    RLM is basically saying that they disapprove of the 'fan-service' (an overused term) in the movie that is supposed to run right into the original film. That's stuff that we appreciate that they were able to do. But on the other hand, they are plainly stating, as Rich Evans points out, that there are things that Star Wars films inherently 'need'. I interpret that as 'rules' just as Marvel films have certain rubrics to follow. So they contradict each other a lot. They call out the prequels for ignoring the aesthetics, pacing and structure of the originals, but chastise this film for the mere attempt to break from it. I understand their arguments and their, somewhat self-serving, rejection of 'fanboyisms' but it doesn't really square with this film because the film itself almost an exercise/experiment in playing with the tried and true tropes that Star Wars has always had. I'm optimistic they'll realize that.

    I do, however, agree with them regarding certain rules/rubrics that define a 'Star Wars' movie's pacing, energy, witty dialogue, story structure, aesthetics and score. IMO, and what Rich Evans kind of points out: You're always going to use certain design choices - weathered/lived-in universe thats dirty and industrial. You're always going to use aesthetics like the TIE Fighter's panels and ball-cockpit, and the Whatever-Wing's "S-Foils" and letter-designations. You're always going to want a musical score that drives the plot because of the operatic themes of the GFFA (something that R1 lacked). It seems like you'll need the opening crawl, and this film did need one, IMO.

    And this is similar to the Marvel films, where there is a pacing, structure, tongue-in-cheek wittiness, that those films all (are kind of required to) have, and they filmmakers just get to play around the edges a bit. They can play with a more political plot (Winter Soldier), or a more psychedelic aesthetic (Strange), or a Shakespearean tragedy (Thor), or just give an excuse to have an incredible airport action scene (Civil War) with all of our favorite heroes pitted against one another, even if seems a bit off-character to some of the audience (I loved it).

    We may have seen R1 run up against some of these rules - opening crawl, musical score (Vader's theme would have added tons of energy to the film at this point in history), pacing and energy (2nd Act - Galen's death needed a stronger musical accompaniment and more energy IMO).

    That being said, it was still a decent film that merged with ANH in a way that augments it's story, and I have to give it credit for that just like I give credit to ROTS for giving the franchise what it really wanted in a prequel (even if I still think its not a good film), and to ROTJ which concluded Luke/Vader's story in a great way (although....Ewoks and the general uselessness of Han and Leia in the 3rd Act). I can't avoid giving such considerations to R1. Therefore, I'll disagree with RLM here.
     
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  7. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel General

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    I'm assuming this hasn't been done yet- I put together lists based on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic's fan and critic average scores for each Star Wars movies. Think of these as different metrics for standard rankings. I find that I align closest to Rotten Tomatoes fans, btw. I also find it very interesting the disconnect between fans and critics on TFA and ROTJ.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. The Dying Rebel

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    I’ve finally got around to putting my thoughts together on R1.

    I found it a slow burner. I actually left the cinema feeling a little deflated, perhaps overly critical of what in my opinion was a slow-moving first act, very mundane score and overly-fan service placements of Evazan and Ponda Baba and Threepio and Artoo later on.

    But…looking back on it I think I find it a better film than TFA...(and whisper it, possibly ROTJ)

    I liked the new, grittier tone and though the visuals Edwards provided were fantastic. I do however think the film indicated that there probably had been some extensive hacking away at the screen play and heavy amounts of reshoots.

    I also think I’d have actually preferred less flashback material as ultimately the film didn’t go into Galen’s personal internal character struggle and solution to ending up working for the bad guys (other than through a rambling monologue which I thought was pretty weak), so the set up at the start could maybe have even been ditched? Perhaps start with adult Jyn Erso being busted out by the rebels after they’ve been keeping tabs on her doing nefarious underworld/Saw-sponsored actions?

    Less Galen, more Saw would have maybe been my choice too, I found him fascinating as a man consumed by his hatred and years of defeats and personal pain. A vivid portrayal of a damaged but occasionally lucid charismatic leader, amped up by slightly over-the-top quaffing on his drugs/life support.

    Very much liked Cassian, K2So, Bodhi, Chirrut and Baze (wish my misinterpretation of Jiang Wen’s Celebrations spoiler interview where I thought he’d admitted to Baze being a double agent for the Empire had come true!), but wish they’d all had just a little more screen time for character development. I also loved Krennic’s scheming malevolent middle management, the epitome of mundane fascism and also adds nice internal tension to the Empire as well with his power duel with Tarkin.

    I liked so much else in the film though I feel churlish complaining, and what were minor issues in the big scheme of things. I wasn’t particularly phased by the CGI Tarkin, Leia wasn’t great mainly as the smile seemed a bit out of character, but I loved the gold and red leader cameos.

    Loved the planets, and Jedah was a fascinating concept, would have loved to have seen inside the great Jedi Temple.

    Costume design was great as well.

    I can’t remember who made the astute point earlier about the Rogue team’s Pyrrhic victory triggering a switch in tactics within the Rebel Alliance. The suggestion that Mon Mothma and perhaps Bail could have faced a no-confidence vote for trying to remain within the narrowing legal constraints of the imperial body politic via their ‘Galen should testify to the senate’ line, is an intriguing one and reflects the shift to a more militant position later for the alliance despite their initial cold-shouldering of Saw’s Partisans as being too violent.

    I’ve skimmed over the themes which I think were interesting, what do you become when a cause drives you to extremes, can you preserve your integrity to the end? We come from stardust and we return to stardust etc, better film critics than me can talk about that.

    Oh yeah, Darth Vader was in it.
     
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  9. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    The disconnect mostly originates from the fact that the critics know what they are talking about and 90% of the fans are just full of s.....:) By the way, since when do we have to give a toss about metacritic. The metacritic's number of alligned critics platforms are highly limited and the number of user votes is marginal compared to IMDB or Rottentomatoes. IMDB voters put up almost the same scores as the aggregated critics. ;) Furthemore, metacritic is mostly visited by videogame audiences. Rottentomatoes and the IMDB most and foremost by movie audiences
     
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  10. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel General

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    So there is a "correct" way to view art?

    "We" don't. I picked them because that is a site that I look at. Also, having just looked at the numbers at IMDB, I find it ironic that they rely on Metacritic for their critic scores.

    Here are the IMDB fan numbers:

    1) ESB 8.8
    2) ANH 8.7
    3) ROTJ 8.4
    4) RO 8.3
    5) TFA 8.2
    6) ROTS 7.6
    7) AOTC 6.7
    8) TPM 6.5
     
    #730 Bargwill Tomder, Dec 20, 2016
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  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    See, I don't know about that. When it comes to Star Wars, I'll trust the population over any critic. It's like when a super hero film is overanalyzed. It's fine to have an opinion on stuff, but sometimes you have to have appropriate expectations. Star Wars isn't made to be some type of Oscar bait film or coffeehouse production. It's big, sometimes stupid, fun. And sometimes it does do well at awards shows, but that's not the aim. Sure, Spotlight may have won Best Picture in 2015, but I doubt the TFA team really cares about that over the sound of the $2,068,000,000,000 they made worldwide.
     
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  12. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    There are in fact correct ways to evaluate different forms of art and media, but there is not a universal determinative criterium by which a general audience's reception can be judged. The audience does not play by the 'rules'. Nevertheless, I prefer the critics' anytime over the audience's reception simply because they evaluate the piece according to criteria that I can check and are roughly shared by other critics. When I go to audience reviews on Metacritic you immediately encounter, both in positive and negative reviews, all sorts of stupidness that have nothing do either with the movie or the underlying intentions which caused it to be made. Really, I urge you, if you want audience aggregates look at IMDB and Rottentomatoes because they have adequate mechanisms in place to prevent score-capping (the notorious 1/10 and 10/10 reviews) and trolling.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2016 ---
    The people who made TFA cared. They are proud of any critic approval because those critics are ultimately their people. But they are most proud of guild acclaim: that is screenwriter guilds etc, the people with the same job. In the guilds, TFA received many prestigious awards. Moviemakers understood why The Force Awakens was such a good and outstanding movie. They judged it by their specific criteria. However, whenever I think about audience reviews I think about the people who write 5000 words editorials on the IMDB which argue that TFA is bad because it is ultimately part of a jewish plot or concerted plan to organize genocide against white males, and about the people who gave the movie a 10/10 because it had a female lead and female stormtroopers.
     
    #732 Ammianus Marcellinus, Dec 20, 2016
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  13. ChrisI

    ChrisI Force Sensitive

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    I for one actually look forward to all the reviews on RT, IMDB and on YouTube. They don't shape my interest going into or opinion after watching but I find it informative and sometimes funny to see differing opinions. I too love watching the RedLetterMedia videos and felt their RO critic was a bit harsh but hey, that's their opinion.

    I do feel like if Episode 8 isn't good (dare I say great) the critics are going to crush the franchise and Disney. AND if it is good to great, there will be those certain stuck up critics or the YouTuber's who are just full of themselves who will hate on the movie because it is either to much like other SW films OR because it's not like other SW films. Oh, it'll be fun come a year from now to see those reviews!
     
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  14. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Making Star Wars movies is currently a similar undertaking to making a historical drama or war movie. There are just some rules which are integral to the strange yet palpable world they want to portray on screen. The Rebels references are of course fan servive, so is Docter Evezan and R2D2 and C3PO. They are quite frankly unnecessary. But someone like Tarkin is a big person in that world, his inclusion is logical because it would be strange to have the commander of the Deathstar not occur in a movie which takes place minutes before A New Hope. See the tension?
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2016 ---
    They'll love episode 8. I'm sure of it. The only criticism that might apply to 8 is that at some points be very different even alien to what we've seen in Star Wars before. Most negative criticism to Rogue One ultimately revolves around the 'too amiliar ingredients' - type of critique.
     
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  15. Obi juan kenobi

    Obi juan kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    After the first ten minutes I turned to my other half and said "after that ten minutes, I am confident to predict that this is going to be my favourite star wars movie". Okay I was a bit excited, but my 'feeling' ended up being near enough correct. Post excitement, I would say it is up there with ESB for me....and it actually makes ANH a BETTER film than it already was.

    If someone was to ask me to write down the things that make 'my ideal star wars movie', this pretty much hits every target.

    I loved the mood, the darkness, the battle scenes, the characters, and most importantly the locations. Disney can keep churning out stand alone films for ever, if they match this in quality (I was skeptical before).

    Okay, there were no lightsaber duals, and the music took a back seat, but I think they are served well in the episodes we already have. These standalone films are and should be made to help us fans to explore the SW galaxy more intimately, they shouldn't try and be in the same mould of a conventional SW episode.

    I liked the naming of the planets on screen (why not Mustafar though?). In a movie that moves from place to place so quickly, I think this is very important to do, as they can't name drop every planet in to the script. It was also one of my annoyances with episode 7, I didn't have a clue what most of the planets were called, and I therefore didn't care for them, even when some got smashed to pieces.

    Locations, aliens, and ships are often what I look out for most in a SW film and theres a balance I would like to see in SW films....I've kind of covered locations above (Nice to see Mustafar, Coruscant and Yavin, as well as new planets that I now care about). Aliens....There were a decent amount of aliens present, some new, some familiar, I still would however like to see a few more aliens taking centre stage though.

    Ships....X wings and Y wings (bombing Y wings <3 ), enough said! The U-wing was a decent addition, and I guess the Tie Striker did a job as an atmospheric fighter. Seeing the Rebel fleet though, and knowing that the Mon Cal cruisers were present at this stage of the rebellion, was very nice to see!


    I could go on, but I am not going to....10/10 and I will hopefully go see it again just after Xmas.
     
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  16. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    See this is precisely why I think they will hate Episode 8. We have already been primed to expect Ep 8 to be darker (and probably more like R1 and less like the Episodic installments that preceded). The expected elements (many of which I would argue the franchise could do well without) will be toned down or missing altogether.

    What many people are not acknowledging (IMO) is that many of those elements were formulaic, but for some it's what made Star Wars, Star Wars. And for others it's what kept Star Wars from being great. So basically there's really no winning situation. You either queue of the fan service that die hard fans live for and critics generally hate, or you try to create a film that doesn't rely on them or utilize them at all to placate the critics, and enrage fans. It's part of the reason why I give TFA a pass where others do not. That seems to be an incredibly difficult line to walk.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I get what you're saying, it's unfortunate that a neckbeard who hasn't even seen the movie yet can rate it poorly just because he thinks it doesn't align with his backward political agenda. Unfortunately, that's how the system works. It would be nice if we could discount the votes of people like that, but... well, I find this relevant:

    ANAKIN
    We need a system where the
    politicians sit down and discuss
    the problems, agree what's in the
    best interests of all the people,
    and then do it.

    PADME
    That is exactly what we do. The
    trouble is that people don't
    wlways agree. In fact, they
    hardly ever do.

    ANAKIN
    Then they should be made to.

    PADME
    By whom? Who's going to make them?

    ANAKIN
    I don't know. Someone.

    PADME
    You?

    ANAKIN
    Of course not me.

    PADME
    But someone.

    ANAKIN
    Someone wise.

    PADME
    That sounds an awful lot like a
    dictatorship to me.


    ANAKIN
    Well, if it works...

    Unfortunately, we have to take the bad with the good, and ultimately- it's Star Wars. If you're a fan, you should at least give it a chance- don't let anyone's review dictate how you feel.
     
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  18. Mhelders

    Mhelders Rebel Trooper

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    Just finished my third viewing and I absolutely loved it. Actually I'm into the opening of IV right now and it just flows perfectly.
    My main issue after the first time I saw the film were the thin characters, and while I think they could have been a tad bit more fleshed out, I cared for all of them, and you can really tell where everyone is coming from. The group also has a great dynamic and I loved how they evolved as a team. Another main reason for the quality of the film is DP Greig Fraser, the cinematography is flat out amazing.

    Also I think people should cut Felicity Jones more slack... me personally, I think shes really really great in this role. Absolutely believable in every scene.
     
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  19. tkiv184

    tkiv184 Rebelscum

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    After 2 viewings I can safely say that RO is solidly right behind the OT & TFA for me. I personally really enjoyed the ride and was more or less smiling throughout. But that said, it never fully captured the magic of TFA or the original films, and for that reason, it's a little further down on my list.

    More than anything, I really could've used another 15-20 minutes with the main cast. But, given that the movie tried to fit the mold and stick with a 2:15 run time, I thought each of the main rebels had a defined (enough) and (fairly) satisfying arc.

    Leaving the theater wanting more is one thing. Wishing that the movie was given a little more time to breathe so that the somber moments really hit home is another. As a one-off (especially since all the main players die) RO really could've been a bit longer and used that time to build up the group IMO. The film makers made conscious attempts to separate RO from the rest of the films in the series; bottom line, it could've been longer. And really, of all the SW films to date, this is the one that absolutely needed a longer narrative and more focused plot. The scope was plenty "epic," it was just to the detriment of the main cast and the audiences connection to them. Because of the need to conform to a pre-established running time, and to provide plenty of fan service moments and battles, there's a definite lack of time spent with our main characters. And while I'm perfectly fine with the call-backs, I just wish in hindsight that the call-backs and fan service moments would've taken a back seat to the through-line of the story; the rebels coming together and finding the strength and support to make the ultimate sacrifice to do what's right.

    Based on the trailers, and despite what Pablo Hidalgo and others have said, it seems like there were fundamental changes made to the end of the movie. It's hard to overlook after so much scrutinizing and speculation and it's more than a little disappointing that so many of the scenes that hooked us from the trailers were absent from the final film. It really seems like we were in for a much different confrontation between Krennic and Jyn/Cassian at the end of the movie, as in the trailers it appears that they all find their way to the beach after the plans are stolen from the citadel/archive.

    My final major gripe is the use of Vader. While I loved seeing his castle, contextually, Krennic going to see Vader there seemed strange. Based on the missing "Vader reveal" scene and Krennic's " the power we are dealing with..." line from the trailers, my feeling is that the two may have originally met earlier in the film. I just think it would have been more appropriate to first show them on (more) equal footing early on, only to see Krennic later sent to his "this is your last chance" meeting with Darth after he gets a little too big for his britches. Sending him to Vader's home should be threatening and perceived as a punishment; it just felt awkward. The ending; Vader's other scene; I'm really not too big a fan of, frankly. It was just a little too flashy for me and, in the 25-plus years I've had to think about what a scene like this would be, it's just not how I imagined it. I'm not a filmmaker, so I'm not suggesting that I could've done it better. I just got a bit more of the PT vibe than I would've liked.

    IMHO the whole of the movie is better than the 30 seconds of Vader wiping out rebel troops. That said, I had fun watching that scene (both times), and completely understand why some people love it. It just felt tacked-on to me and it sadly may be my least favorite scene in the film. I know, blasphemy right...?! Strangely, one of my favorite moments from the movie happens right before he turns on the saber and wrecks all the rebels, when it almost seems like the darkness is "growing/spreading." I thought that was very cool and it gave Vader's entrance the appropriate sense of ominousness and menace that it deserves.


    On the positive side of things: I really liked all the main rebels; Chirrut & Baze were my personal favorites. Galen was a better, more fleshed out character than I was expecting. I really wanted more of both Saw & Krennic, but I enjoyed them in their limited roles. Tarkin. I thought the Tarkin scenes were amazing. Sure, a little distracting because of our innate ability to discern real from not-so-real, but pretty fantastic nonetheless. I personally feel like the decision to push it and really make him a key player, with multiple scenes, sold the gag. I loved it. I liked the overall portrayal of both the Rebellion and the Empire. The visuals were top-notch throughout and the space battle; all the action set pieces; was incredibly well done. There was a lot to like, despite my criticisms.

    So, did I love it? No, but it was thoroughly enjoyable and a heck of a good effort by all involved. Does it eclipse any of the the original films? No way, sorry. And where did all the TFA hate come from? I was (sincerely) hoping that I would love RO even more than TFA, but it falls well short of that. Rey, Finn, Han Solo, the tease of Luke, hard to top for me.

    So... I refuse to give them a number score, but...

    1) ESB
    2) ROTJ
    3) ANH
    4) TFA
    5) RO
    6) TPM
    7) ROTS
    8) AOTC
     
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  20. Lord Skywalker

    Lord Skywalker Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Posts:
    994
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    Credits:
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    Ratings:
    +3,816 / 43 / -19
    After my 2nd showing, I think I feel comfortable with my 8-movie list:

    ESB
    ANH
    RO
    TFA - tied
    ROTJ - tied
    ----- small gap -----
    ROTS
    ----- HUGE gap -----
    TPM
    AOTC
     
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