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Rose Tico in Ep 9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by CnlSandersdeKFC, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    What I would've loved to have seen in TLJ is a demilitarized Republic falling like dominoes to the First Order.

    Apparently that's what was going on in the background anyway, but I think it could've provided some great context for this film, and perhaps more importantly, IX.

    But yeah, I'd also agree with you guys that while I see where Rose is coming from and I don't disagree, she's clearly an idealist. Perhaps the biggest idealist since Padme, who at least had a significant background in politics to temper her beliefs.
     
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Rose is telling it like it is.... The planet is full of a bunch of rich people partying on the backs of slaves and war profits while there's a war happening. It's very much like the wealthy Southern land owners during the American civil war who got rich on slavery, but let the poor Southerners fight and die to preserve an evil institution.
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    well that's a narrative that's far too reduced.
    yes fewer rich people went to war for the South, but that's only because they were the minority population to begin with.
    if you were young enough and didn't go to war in that era you were branded a coward, period (regardless of your politics or your stance on slavery).
    and lots of cats got fat during the Civil War on both sides.

    all that said, ultimately i agree:
    Rose is lambasting the effete's blind eye to cruelty and hardship in the galaxy, while they live in decadence and rake the money in.
     
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  4. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    I liked her sister infinitely more and the woman never even said a word.

    Rose can be cool. But I really dislike such childlike charachters like she is or like Finn is, for some reason.

    For 9 I think they will continue with that innocent romance plot between her and Finn and she will continue to be just a side charachter.
    Or she'll follow her sister and die in a blaze of glory savin Finn saying I was wrong! Go kill what you hate."
    Don't really care that much, tbh
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i really like KMT and i don't outright hate Rose, but i admit this movie could have been at least 20-30 minutes tighter without her and wouldn't have had to have lost a beat otherwise. : o p
     
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  6. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I totally disagree with this because the Rose/Finn arc is an essential part of Poe's arc with Holdo. Plus, Rose has a profound impact on Finn view of the conflict. For me, the film loses a lot of heart without Rose.

    Also, this is a thread for Rose going forward. So let's consider that before rehashing TLJ stuff too much.
     
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  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    The sad thing: Rose could have (and should have) easily replaced with Poe.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i'm not saying cut the arc or the essence of it, i'm saying replace Rose with Poe, tighten up the "mutiny" and the new Finn/Poe arc does double duty without needing a third character and likewise lops off a lot of thematic redundancy. make Poe and Paige an item, and you give Poe a reason to be half-crazy and don't even have to lose the smelt. blip blobbity bloop and you've got a shorter film that maintains all the beats. ; D

    again, i like Rose. i just don't think she was 100% necessary when we already had a full cast to play with. by removing her all we would have really lost was her misguided hero-worship (which she lost anyway), and the kiss (which they could have even kept with Poe if they really wanted ~ or not: it's not critical).

    edit: @NinjaRen: you are way more succinct! XD
     
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  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Like it or not Rose is here to stay. As one of the last pieces of the fledgling rebellion she'll have an important part to play.

    She's suffered so much in this war, I hope she finds peace in the end.
     
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  10. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    Rose is just another broom boy. Force free though.
    What her role in 9 might be is questionable. I think most of her story has been said in 8 and I don't think we have time to concentrate more on her speciffically in the next one so I think her story will just be a continuation of her role in 8: a comfort prize for Finn since ReyFinn is never happening.
    I would have prefered, like mentioned above, if her charachter wasn't introduced to please eastern markets, because I do have to agree that stormpilot would have been much more entertaining. And damn...if Isaacs wasn't such a good cast and they hired someone like Takeshi Kaneshiro they would have done both with less charachters!
     
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  11. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I like the idea RJ had in mind for the character of Rose but unfortunately it was not executed well enough. I know he wanted a character unexpected in the SW university, not heroic looking, kind of a girl next door, and KMT is a super actress and it all could have worked very well, paradoxically, if the canto bight story had been bigger and had been merged with Holdo’s and Poe’s. Even getting rid of Holdo altogether and bringing Poe to canto bight would have been so much better, having an interesting triangle with a dynamic reminicent of Han, Leia and Luke in ANH.
     
    #111 Kylocity, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
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  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    She 's example of Luke's legend spreading throughout the galaxy?
    It might be easier to discuss Rose in episode IX if people understood Rose's arc in The Last Jedi. A "comfort prize" is a very insulting and completely incorrect view of the character.
     
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  13. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    No. A misguided idealist who thinks that he/she fights for the ultra pure good guys. If anything ST plus R1 established quite unequivocally that the lines between the good ans the bad in new canon are not that clear.

    I do apologize if you find offensive that I have an opinion of a charachter in a fantasy movie. However, my view and opinion are equally valid and correct as yours because having a view or an opinion is something very personal to the one who is having them and no one is more worthy than the other around here, is it?
    Now...if you relate to this particular charachter in such a way that you get offended for any negative critique or comment (of the charachter), perhaps you should reconsider discussing it? Hope you will take this as a friendly suggestion because it is how i intended it :)

    Rose is not a main charachter in the movie. That is why her story is not that important to me. I personally don't like her because she cares more about freeing the fathiers than freeing the slave kids. They are very small and could have fitted on that ship quite well :D some creatures are entitled to more of our compassion than the others and in this case the poor little orphans precede the animals. Considering she grow up as one and she knew what it means to grow up in such conditions i find her disregard for the kids particularly appalling.
    Her best moment was zapping Finn, then she had most integrity. After that it is just disappearing.
    Her decission to save what she loved was purely selfish and completely took away from Finn's best and most inspiring moment of all ST. I also saw it as completely demasculating move.
    I like that line that she says before she kisses him but it is not pragmatic in a war. Sometimes the only way to save what you love is to destroy what you hate, you know...like Holdo did.
     
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  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Again, this is a misinterpretation of the character and the film. The First Order is evil. DJ is wrong. Rose is right about Canto Bight and the First Order. She's only "misguided" if you think the First Order's cause is justified.
    There's still a clear difference between good and evil.
    I don't find it offensive. I think it's silly and calling Rose a "comfort prize" is insulting to the character. Also, the idea of a female character being a "comfort prize" is rather disgusting.
    Then you should move on to threads about characters you like.
    This isn't true. That's not what happens in the film.
    Finn committing a pointless suicide would have been Finn's best and most inspiring moment?
    I guess it's clear why you think Rose is a "comfort prize" if you think saving someone from suicide is "emasculating."

    It's kind of interesting some of the words used to describe Rose in this thread.
    - Morally superior
    - Hypocrite
    - Comfort prize
    - Naive
    - Bossy
    - Emasculating Finn

    Hmmm
     
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  15. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    From your point of view. Not mine.

    Never said they weren't.

    In what? Claiming that both sides use same tools to push their agendas?

    Then why is Resistance dealling with people of Canto Bight and not wipping them out from existence? It is like saying pedophiles are bad but damn they just make the absolute best pizza so let's tolerate them? Wouldn't that mean that the 'good' guys value their love for pizza more than they value the life of innocents kids who suffer? If so how does that behaviour makes the 'good' guys good?

    Nope. Your analysis of what i said is flawed. My exact words were:
    "A misguided idealist who thinks that he/she fights for the ultra pure good guys."
    Read with comprehension please :)

    How so?
    Is it in the intent? Both FO and Ressistance want to rule the galaxy. Both think that their way of ruling the galaxy is the best way of ruling a galaxy. Both fight the other contestant to the throne with equal vigor often using similar means.
    Is it in their specific actions? Both cause the loss of innocent lives and collateral damage.

    Thank god Rose is a fictional charachter then so she cant feel insulted. Not for real. If she could she also could do something about her charachter so she would change her role. And we wouldn be having this discussion.

    Even if it is true?

    No. I have no problems with objectively disscusing topics i dont like. And I also am capable of doing it without having the need to declare the opponents silly :)

    No? So Rose doesn't free space horses and she frees the kids instead?

    Finn was not on a suicide mission but on a mission, alongside his co-fellow piloteers of the uni ski jets, to destroy that cannon the only weapon in the FO arsenal that threatened the Resistance's desperate plan to stay fortified on Crait and survive until help arrived. During the approach he made a choice to selfsacrifice himself to save all others he cared about. Doing something for selfless reasons is something that does present a peak in his charachter development from tfa untill the end of tlj. To dismiss that this is just my interpretation of his charachter I will refer to the fact that Rose actually calls him selfish at the start of tlj. (Read that the director is putting that words in her mouth to establish where he started in this episode's story arc)
    I find inspiring if in a story selfish charachters transcend their selfishness and become willing to sacrifice themselves to save others. Don't you?

    1. It was not a suicide. See above for clarification.
    2. How is it clear? I dont follow. Perhaps I'm too silly to understand the connection. So please elaborate, thank you.

    I agree with all charachterizations but morally superior. She does act like she is but that doesn't make her that.

    And guess what. I am not a man ;)
     
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  16. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    “Interesting”, why exactly? It seems there is a sequitur here but I don’t get it.

    I don’t want to speak for anyone but it was my impression that @Chise was criticising precisely the notion that Rose could be considered a comfort prize for Finn...

    And, I hate to state the obvious but: Rose is not real, so I don’t think she’ll be offended if we name call her ;)
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

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    Again, most of this stuff is off topic and doesn't deal with Rose going forward. It is interesting to me that some people view female characters a simple accessories. Rose isn't a character on her own. Nope, she's a "prize" for Finn. I don't see Rose and Finn's possession. She's mourning her sister when we first see her. She's keeping deserters from leaving the ship.

    Then she meets Finn. He's a hero of the Resistance and she's starstruck by the man who helped blow up Starkiller Base. Then she's let down to find him deserting the Resistance, Then she finds herself on this grand adventure and becomes a hero in her own right. Not because she's an accessory to Finn, but because she helps Finn find his way.

    I hope they find some fun stuff to do with her in the next film that's not so related to Finn.
     
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  18. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    It is not that I don’t understand the intention RJ had with the character of Rose and that you described above. It is just that her wholesomeness and candour were more preached and spelt out than suggested and developed, and I would have preferred the latter. As I have mentioned before, I have no problem with the character of Rose, only with the writing of it.
     
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I appreciate your opinion. People don't have to like Rose or even talk about her. For those of us who love her this is a thread to discuss her future. This thread is to speculate about Rose in Episode IX. I disagree with you about the writing, but this thread is getting off the topic with discussions about whether people liked Rose in The Last Jedi.
     
    #119 DailyPlunge, Mar 24, 2018
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  20. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Fair enough. I understand. I’ll step out.
     
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