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Rose's line and kiss...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by King Chewie, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. King Chewie

    King Chewie Rebelscum

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    Oh boy, I bet this thread is going to get a lot of love!

    So we all know the pivotal scene by now (if not, leave this thread right away).

    Near the end of the movie, Rose stops Finn from sacrificing himself. He asks why. She says, “That’s how we’re gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love." She then kisses him and passes out.

    When I saw this scene, I saw something completely non-romantic. I didn't see a proclamation of romantic love followed by a romantic kiss, but a proclamation of platonic love followed by a cute, platonic kiss. For me it was a mission statement for how things are going to be done moving forward by the Resistance. Yet apparently many who saw this scene saw it as some kind of romantic gesture, and then dismissed it as unbelievable, out of character, unrequited, etc., etc. There was a lot of hate. The guy sitting next to me in the theater even whispered to himself, "Well there's a downgrade [for Finn]." I was thoroughly confused.

    I'm just curious what you thought Rose was saying in that moment. Did I misread something? Was this meant to be a romantic moment? Or was it indeed something platonic. Do we live in a world now where people no longer know or understand that there are types of love beyond romantic love? Is there any hope for humanity? These are my questions when it comes to Rose.
     
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  2. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I never seen it as romantic. It was just in the moment. Besides Rian said there wasn't any romance in TLJ.
     
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  3. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Rose is completely infatuated with Finn. When Finn gives his speech about taking out the canon until help arrives, she gives a big old smile. She’s seeing him go from just wanting to save Rey by getting far away to willing to die for the cause. She’s got it bad for him. Finn cares for her, but I’m not sure he’s going to be into her in the same way. Honestly, exploring this romance feels like a waste of screen time. There’s not a lot of chemistry in my opinion.
     
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  4. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I think Rose's romantic interest in Finn is kind of implied, not necessarily by the kiss but by her action and statement. I just can't think of any other rationalization for Rose's behavior if that is not the case.
    And the statement is really confusing to be honest I get the idea behind it, but I can't quite grasp exactly what she means. I mean she did exactly what Finn was doing, she almost sacrificed herself to stop Finn from sacrificing himself to save others?? I think only love could explain that...
     
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  5. King Chewie

    King Chewie Rebelscum

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    I know she idolizes him, that much is pretty apparent from the moment they meet, but I never saw it as a crush or romantic type of idolization. Kind of like how you might act if you suddenly got to spend the day with an actor, actress, or important person who you respect.

    ...Granted, I've become very bad at recognizing where love does/doesn't exist in the modern Star Wars universe. I for one thought that a great make out scene between Jyn and Cassian was missed at the end of Rogue One...like I really thought those two had a thing for each other and some chemistry going on, but my friends all thought I was crazy. Maybe likewise here there's something romantic going on that I'm not seeing. I miss the days of Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford. Their chemistry was so much easier to read!
     
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  6. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Jynn and Casian would have been a thing if they lived. There was waaaaayyyyy more chemistry between them than Finn and Rose. But you don’t kiss someone on the battlefield if they are just your friend. She did it because in her mind she may not get another chance.
     
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  7. Oneforceonebalance

    Oneforceonebalance Rebel Official

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    By saving what we love..
    So…. here it is…. I saw a lot of posts claiming Rey is sad/upset about Finn and Rose and some countering that, saying no she isn’t. She is just sad about Ben. And remembering what could have been.

    Okay so I’m putting it frame by frame here:

    Finn grabs the blanket from an utility drawer. Seems like he knows his way around the freighter. Which most probably was the first safe haven he had. And it serves as a home that he never had. Also he patched up chewie the first time around, he knows his way around the care facilities of the Falcon. Him being the resident care giver of the ship.

    [​IMG]
    Now note that this is the first moment, since Rey slammed the door on Ben, she has to herself. The scene actually start with her looking down then she looks up. She was looking at her broken saber, holding it in a way like she was feeling defeated. Almost like she was holding two pieces of her hope and by extension, her heart. Remember the saber was split in half; again proving that they are equal in power and determination of purpose. And as much as Rey rejected his offer, Ben has rejected Rey’s call. Both thinking their version of the future is the right one. I have elaborated more on that topic on this speculation post.

    At the end of it she was left with two piece of her saber and broken hope. She expected to go there and bring Ben solo back, but ended up strengthening Kylo Ren. You can tell she is feeling disheartened. And it indeed didn’t go the way she thought.

    But then Rey witnesses this small interaction. Between two people who went through odds together. And ended up saving each other. Their mission might have failed. But it earned them victory in other ways. It help Finn realize his path and find his purpose. And it made Rose, who called herself a nobody a chance to show courage and strength that was rare even amongst the heroes.

    But more importantly, it taught them a lesson. It taught them all a lesson. That is no matter the cause, you don’t win wars with ships and guns. Doesn’t matter who owned a superweapon and who destroyed it. You don’t win by destroying your enemy. You win by saving the ones you love.

    And Rey saw the truth in it.

    Rose saved Finn. If Finn destroyed the canon it would have hold the first order down for a bit. But it would have cost them another life. Another love.

    Luke saved the resistance not by fighting the First Order but by stalling them. But in the process he not only saved his beloved sister but also saved Ben Solo from hurting his mother. Because if Leia got hurt this time around it woulf have been at his hand unlike the last time when first order blew up the bridge. So Luke doesn’t fight Kylo Ren and first order. He saves Ben Solo from destroying more of his soul.

    And at this moment when Rey watches her best friend taking care of the girl who loved him and saved him, she knows that lesson is true. Her friend is alive and well because Rose focused on saving him. And Finn has started to reciprocate that feeling. Rey is happy for them, her smile here proves that fact. She is happy for her friend.

    [​IMG]
    Also…. There might still be hope for her. You see where my discussion started was her feeling hopeless. But at the end watching these two she feels hope. She can win this by not giving up or fighting. But by saving what she loves. Keeping the vision of the future alive. That was the lesson of the story. And the point of this movie.

    Now the sad shot… what a lot of people, esp the ants, are mistaking as Rey feeling sad seeing Finn taking care of Rose. But they couldn’t be more wrong.

    [​IMG]
    She was still smiling until Leia sat down beside her. The two woman felt Luke’s passing. It wasn’t in sadness or pain. But in peace and purpose. There is no Death, there is the Force. And Luke Skywalker just became one with the force Saving what he loves.

    Although Rey can still feel the loss and also the loss inside of Leia. Who seemed to have lost everything. See that sadness was basically two women mourning not petty jealousy. People love to use screen shots out of context to push their agendas.

    Anyway, back to Leia and Rey:

    [​IMG]
    Rey is still holding the two pieces of her lightsaber, the object that set her in this path. It also symbolizes hope for the galaxy. And Also her own hope to bring Ben, and in retrospect balance back to the force. Or in simple language or maybe more complicated one, depending on your perspective, pieces of her broken heart, and dream of a future she saw with him.

    But Leia reassures the young girl that they have what they need to build anew. They still have hope.

    (Disclaimer: I don’t own any of these gifs or intend to use them for any sort of profit. This is only for fandom discussion and speculation.)

    [​IMG]
    thesovereignempress
    This is the only thematically and character compliant interpretation I’ve seen of these two moments and it is exactly right.
     
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  8. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Rebelscum

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    The kiss sure is romantic (from Rose's perspective) : i don't know why, since the movie makes absolutely no effort to build up to it.
    (You could even say it does the opposite, as it goes to great lenghts to "de-sexualize" KMT. For a Space Opera, supposed to feature "idealized" heroes, why does he ends up with such an unflattering makeup / haircut / attire ?)

    Now Finn's perspective is unclear, as he doesn't expect nor reciprocate the kiss. But he does look later Rose afterwards...

    So, really weird scene overall... and i haven't talked about that line yet ! Easily the most cringeworthy SW line since Padme''s "to be angry is to be human".
     
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  9. JohnnyL REACTS

    JohnnyL REACTS Rebelscum

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    It just didn't work. The kiss that is. The moment was cringeworthy
     
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  10. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    That's probably the most solid reasoning behind the kiss. She is infatuated. I don't think it's reciprocal. There's no telling how Finn should realistically react (assuming he's never been kissed before... well... at least consciously).

    I don't think I agree with the message that they attempted to communicate considering all the rest of the movie. For one, Finn has been doing all he's been doing to save what he loves; Rey. It's only at the point where Finn becomes determined that he won't let the FO win, that he decides to ram the canon.
     
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  11. nagajuna

    nagajuna Clone

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    Force
    Forced kiss Forces writing Forced Plot Forced smile etc etc etc...Finn and Rose had zero chemistry their relationship story made zero sense what is the real agenda and it ain't finn needs to care about the resistance more than rey
     
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  12. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    I liked the film, but I have to admit, that kiss looked kind of off... IMHO, every film has flaws so I'll give it a pass. 2 years till ep.9, at least we have SOLO to break the monotony...

    Films are subjective so people can see whatever they want. Rey closing the door at Kylo harkens back to when she looks back at the forest on SKB, after defeating Kylo before boarding the Falcon.

    Rey has a huge task ahead of her, wanting to help Ben and failed, now she has a new agenda, to help rebuild the resistance. F Ben Solo he is gone and if he returns she'll be ready...

    Unfortunately for jedi a relationship is out of the question... IMHO so Rey and Finn won't happen unless Rey renounces her Jedi path. I'm not a fan of Reylo but if JJ does it right you won't get any complaints from me.
     
    #12 Rogues1138, Dec 31, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  13. Oneforceonebalance

    Oneforceonebalance Rebel Official

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    I agree with you the kiss was really to make the Reylo campers happy, because by Rose kissing Finn, takes Finn away from Rey. This why I believed they put the kiss there in the movie to make the Reylo campers see Finn got someone else who wants him, and kissed him on the mouth, where Rey kissed him on the forehead in TFA. Rose's kiss was fake even the acting when she did it was not naturally.
     
    #13 Oneforceonebalance, Dec 31, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  14. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    I took this as the parallel reversal of ESB's love triangle. Han and Leia fight in the hall and challenge each other to loving each other, but don't do anything with it quite yet, and instead Leia kisses Luke to spite Han, who had caught her off guard with the expression of Love (in his own antagonistic way) in the hall fight.

    This time around, our Luke is Rey, our Han is Finn, and our Leia (at least in this dynamic) is Rose.
    So since it's supposed to reverse in the ST, our Leia catches our Han off guard, and the kiss goes to our Han instead of our Luke, and the kiss won't be for spite but in earnest.

    Further, unrelated to this, it satisfies the symmetrical requirement because in the firsts half all of the ideals, like heroes, are destroyed and in the second half all of the destroyed ideals, like heroes, are valued for their real selves (except Kylo...he goes the opposite direction than everyone else).
    So Rey starts out idolizing the celebrity of Finn, has her icon of him destroyed by finding out Finn is trying to run from danger in what appears to her to be a selfish act, and arrests him.
    Then through events, Rose finds renewal in admiration for her hero in his actual person rather than her idea of him, and then comes to love (in whatever capacity you want to take it as) and save Finn from danger through an act of self-sacrifice.
    At first, Rose, out of hate, arrests Finn for the sake of the Resistance, but in the end, out of love, she saves Finn for her own want; in spite of the detriment to the Resistance.
    Her arc is a literal manifestation of her dialogue line when she kisses Finn.

    So...Rose kisses Finn.

    Cheers,
    Jayson :)
     
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  15. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Cringeworthy yes, but Pads was rite!
     
  16. panki

    panki Rebel Commander

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    I think the kiss was meant to be romantic, with the fires of battle in the background but it didn't have quite that impact....though I definitely feel the way Rose looked at him in that scene was sweet and full of adoration. Finn wrapping Rose in the blanket and watching her had a lot more romantic impact than that kiss in my opinion.
     
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  17. KyloRen1981

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    Rose's quote about her philosophy made no sense given ... the entire rest of any Star Wars movie. Her sexually assaulting Finn with an unsanctioned kiss made no sense. Nothing about Rose made sense or is delivered well via the actress. Rose, as a whole, is only a few notches above Jar Jar in my opinion. =)
     
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  18. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

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    Doesn't matter. JJ will likely ignore that nonsense anyways.
     
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  19. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    It was sweet. And my guess is Big F got a bit bigger.

    Seriously though, I notice a lot of people saying the film had no plot or Finn/Rose was pointless. How very wrong. Just like with Empire, it isn’t the plot that is important here but where the characters start and end - and what they discover along the way. Finn learned an awful lot on his quest with Rose and not only did this enrich him as a person but it made him more important to the Resistance going forward. Finn will be one of the leaders of the Resistance alongside Poe and Rey, and his insight into what is truly propelling the war forward will be vital.

    As for his relationship with Rose, it’s good for Finn as she showed him there are other important things at stake rather than just Rey and that, despite what a few folks might think here, he is a hero and vital.

    Yeah, flying into his ship full speed to save him was a tad comical but I didn’t think that when I saw it (like I didn’t notice the slight issues with the space chase until the haterz started spewing ;p). I think, as ever with SW, the message is all important. And the “save the ones you love rather than kill the ones you hate” theme is fantastic, beautiful and pertinent. Sealing it with a kiss makes sense.

    It’s also a relationship that juxtaposes well with the passionate, forbidden and confusing romance between Rey and RenBen.

    Troll away.
     
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  20. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    What he did say though, was that the movie is really, really funny. Like, the in-your-face humor is all over the place. He didn't lie about that.
     
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