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SPECULATION Ruthless General Hux in TFA: Precedence from ROTJ Deleted Scene?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by WeWhoSurvived, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Rumored in TFA is that a merciless, ruthless General Hux orders a weapon to be fired against the Resistance even though First Order forces are engaged in combat with them. As a result, both enemy and friendly forces are annihilated. There may be precedence for this. Watch this deleted scene from ROTJ where the Emperor orders Endor destroyed if the Rebels manage to destroy the shield generator:

     
    #1 WeWhoSurvived, Nov 17, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
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  2. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    You can also watch Braveheart to have a case of historic precedence.

    The ROJ novelization described the scene - following the Emperor's death - rather differently, i.e. that Jerjerrod intended to obliterate the forest moon without having second thoughts.

    I'm still torturing my brain trying to figure out the context of this deleted scene. Apparently Jerjerrod receives the order straight from the Emperor who then must still be alive.
    What's the real story? Had it been originally intended that Luke's plan, i.e. to distract him long enough and perish with him with in the destruction of the Death Star, actually suceeded?

    The moment the countdown begins, Luke must either already have left the Death Star or still be on it. The official script is alarmingly ambigous, IMHO:

    Han looks town from the sky to Leia, a look of concern on his face.
    Leia continues to look at the sky as though listening for a silent
    voice.


    HAN I'm sure Luke wasn't on that thing when it blew.


    ??? Thoughts? Information?
     
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    It's just a little bit more (unnecessary) taunting from the Emperor - informing Luke that there really is no hope for his friends on Endor, even if their plan succeeds - they will die. I think it was cut because:

    a) It's unnecessary, Luke already sees the whole thing is a trap
    b) The Emperor needs to appear over-confident to the point that he doesn't think the Rebels can succeed on Endor.
     
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  4. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    ^^ I'm aware of these things, but that doesn't answer the question about the context or when the Emperor's command would have fit in.

    1. The generator on the forest moon creates the deflector shield protecting the Death Star. The Emperor would not have given the order, until the deflector shield generator would have been destroyed and Endor would have become useless to him.

    2. Rebel ships are about or have already entered the Death Star's superstructure following the destruction of the deflector shield. While the deleted Jerjerrod scene would have probably been edited, how much time in real life would it have taken between the Emperor's command and the station's capability to fire at the forest moon? The capital Rebel ships were vaporized rather instantly.

    3. The command to destroy Endor would have probably come as another attempt to provoke Luke into striking down the Emperor. How much time then did Luke have to (a) fight Vader, (b) say no to the Emperor, (c) be saved by his father and (d) drag him from the elevator exit down below to the nearest VIP shuttle before the Rebel ships had started the chain reaction which destroyed the Death Star?

    Again, the context of the deleted scene strongly suggests that Luke would not have had the time to get out alive and in one piece. The only thing about this deleted scene I'm certain about is that the Death Star blew up before it could destroy Endor.

    So either a script (during production stage!) envisioned the death of Luke and Vader as the ultimate sacrifice or the order didn't come from the Emperor but instead his enigmatic Grand Vizier, Sate Pestage (Vader had to talk to first before speaking directly to the Emperor in the October 1978 draft for ESB).
     
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  5. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous Rebel General

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    Quick noob question. Why was it that the emperor taunted and goaded Luke to strike him? What would have happened? Is it like Obi-Wan when he tells Vader if you strike me I will become more powerful than you can imagine?
     
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  6. TIDMADT

    TIDMADT Jedi Biker

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    He wanted Luke to give in to the anger... attack...
     
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  7. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous Rebel General

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    I understand bud. But I meant what would be the conclusion of it? Eg. Would that complete Lukes 'transition' to the dark side? and would that have actually killed the emperor? I am just a bit convoluted in this regard.
     
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  8. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    The scene was right before Sheev tells Luke that "there is no escape."
     
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  9. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    Luke does attempt to strike him down, Vader stops him. The emperor knew that Vader wouldn't let Luke kill him. In my opinion, this has to do with Vader being controlled or kept alive by Sidious through the use of the force.

    Luke: Come with me. Leave everything behind.
    Darth Vader: Obi-Wan once thought as you do. You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I must obey my master.
     
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  10. Emperor Abrams

    Emperor Abrams Rebel General

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    The Emperor knew Luke wouldn't kill him because Vader would stop him (or maybe the Emperor would -- I always got the impression he was supremely powerful and just electrocuted Luke to torture him, he could have just snapped his neck with the force if he wanted), but it was to taunt Luke to get his feelings running, once he had the anger, the Emperor felt he could direct and manipulate the anger into whatever he wanted, despite that it was righteous anger to begin with. The Emperor is over confident and believes he can create anger in Luke that stems from a feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness like with Anakin, hence taunting Luke with the death of his friends and how their fate is in the Emperor's hands, and how the only way to save them is by joining the dark side to likely replace Vader. He thought he was working Luke all along, but Luke never turned on the inside. Not once.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2015 ---
    That's also what I thought of. Pretty awesome deleted scene, and just further illustrates how ruthless the Empire is. I love it.
     
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  11. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Makes you wonder what conversations Tarkin had with Palps before destroying Alderaan.
     
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  12. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    The difference with Palpatine and Hux is that Palpatine was more calm, calculating, and knew exactly what he was doing...Whereas, Hux seems hellbent on winning no matter what at all costs.
     
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  13. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    Hux is more like a Tarkin.....
     
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  14. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    From what we've heard of Hux, and that spot of him spazzing out about firing something, I think, as you're saying, he is very similar to Tarkin, but he has a crazy streak in him, whereas Tarkin always seemed put together literally right as he was about to explode.
     
  15. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    he seems like a cross between Tarkin and Agent Kallus ...
     
  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Whos Agent Kallus?
     
  17. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    Star Wars Rebels bad guy.. which is CANON

    [​IMG]
     
  18. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    He has a similar "look" about him as Hux...at least to me.
     
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  19. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    Do you mean "Empire" or "Emperor"? It's pretty obvious in the deleted scene that Jerjerrod does care about his fellow officers and soldiers down on the forest moon of Endor.

    (I notice that obviously no one has an answer to my actual question, i.e. how this deleted scene could have possibly fit in ROJ as we know it)
     
  20. Kessel Runner

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    Interesting, I wonder if the rebel base (along with a few members of the OT cast) might cop it this time round: third time lucky for the forces of evil. I know it's already been mentioned that this film will work as a stand-alone movie, but part of me can't help think that it's going to proceed as a cross between ANH and ESB, ending with some substantial losses for the good guys. In fact, part of me hopes that Disney/Abrams have the balls to take the franchise to a slightly darker place, rather than coating it in saccharine.
     
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