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Science and Star Wars

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by Embo and His Pet Anooba, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Sensitive

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    I hate plot-holes. Unfortunately, Star War has the most plot holes ever, so I will address the science related ones.

    First, we have time dilation, the difference in time in two places often due to differing gravitational potential.
    This seems to have no effect in the Star Wars universe, seeing as in Solo, Han escaped a black hole without any significant change in time on the outside. However, this was addressed in one legends story, about this guy who traveled 190 years forward in time due to time dilation. Why? Because of relativistic shielding. This was a random technology in legends that protected the ship from time dilation. No explanation on how it did this, but that will have to do for now. Next we have Hyperspace. E=mc^2 will be important here, as simply it can be put to mean that energy and mass are interchangeable. You can rearrange that to see that it would be basically impossible, because everything with mass would take too much energy to move at lightspeed. Therefore, in the real world, hyperspeed is impossible to everything but photons, which are massless. We will now use the holdo manuever as an example If ships take the hyperspace approach to connect with the star destroyer during the holdo manuever, the raddus would have to be accelerating. And if it uses the photon method, then it would be massless. However, it had too little mass, it would only destroy itself, and too little speed and it will just bounce off, so the conditions would have to be perfect, perhaps in conjunction with the experimental shield of the raddus. I was thinking that hyperspace travel would use string theory, and actually not go faster than light, but then how would they get hit by purgils in hyperspace lanes if they aren't in the same dimension as the purgils? Therefore, someone become massless might be the most probable. The other option is someone creating enough energy to travel faster than light, which would destroy the universe, so probably not that. Next we have flight dynamics of space. George Lucas is not a physicist, so he based to space travel on travel in earth's atmosphere. Planes bank to turn, because of air pressure. However, in airless space, this is unnecessary , but they do it anyway. If they banked in space at such high speeds, the center of gravity would be maintained, so whatever direction they are going is still constant, but the g forces generated would most likely kill the occupants. However, they use something called an inertial compensator, so I guess that explains it. As for why they do it in the first place, real answer-george lucas is not a physicist. in universe answer- I guess they were used to it and never stopped banking?
    Finally, we have blasters. Lasers have no sound, and and travel at the speed of light, and are invisible, so dodging one would be near impossible, so we can assume that they are not shooting lasers or plasma based light. One explanation that is provided is that they are some sort of particle beam, which is a stream of neutrally charged particles. This is supported by the fact that magnetically sealed surfaces deflect them. Also apparently tibanna gas is used as a coolant, instead of the fuel source, which would support this theory better.
    Finally, we have lightsabers. Lightsabers are usually described as plasma contained in a magnetic shield. However, this is impossible because lightsabers produce heat, which a magnetic field is incapable of doing. And the touching of the plasma lightsabers would result in magnetic reconnection, which would make both blades explode, so we can assume that it is not made out of plasma. In the Euler-Heisenberg experiment of 1936 showed that light can actually interact with itself at sufficiently high intensities, due to the random change of energy in a spot, known as quantum fluctuation. This connection would scatter photons down to the hilt of the lightsaber, and since photons have momentum, they would exert a force on the hilt, giving an impression of having a solid blade. However, an extremely large amount of energy would be needed to do this. To run it for one minute, you would need about 10^25 Joules of energy, which is something like 9 times less that what the Sun produces in a second, which sounds small, but is a large number. Basically, you would need some energy we haven't discovered yet. Also, we have to account for the force in making the lightsaber, which might account for some of the power provided.

    That was long.
     
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  2. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    dude you need to read “The Forever War” by Joe Haldeman. Not only is it widely known as one of the best Sci-fi books ever, it explains fully how time dilation would change interstellar space wars. I read it as a kid, gave it to My 17 yr old son to read and he told his friends at school....

    By the way....EPIC post above!!!!
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Short answer to a long post:
    No. Star Wars has no science plot holes.
    A FANTASY movie cannot have science plot holes in a world where our science isn't inherently applicable. All of your scientific deductions would require the GFFA to abide by our known science, which it obviously doesn't.
     
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  4. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Sensitive

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    obviously, but its still interesting to look at these supposed plot holes using science. we cant figure out the rules of that universe, but we can still apply it to ours to make more sense of it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2020 ---
    also it does say a galaxy far far away, so it is still in our universe, so technically it should apply
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    1. But unless it's a 1:1 comparison you won't learn anything important.

    2. Universe, sure but there's a lot that doesn't translate inside our own solar system. Tattooine has two suns. If you want to be scientific about it, there is no way scientific matters on earth would hold up under a planet with two suns.

    Looking for or trying to solve science plot holes in a fantasy series is not going to yield any good answers. If Star Wars said they are science fiction, then sure. But that's not what this is. In a world where the Force exists, real world science plot holes can't exist. Worst case scenario is "The Force did it"
     
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  6. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Sensitive

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    i know that, and they answer a bunch of things with the force did it or just made up devices. But it is still interesting to see how they apply in the real world.
     
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  7. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I actually had this debate on Reddit last month. I agree with what @RoyleRancor in that fantasy stories shouldn't be bound to sci-fi science rules. There's a lot more I could say, but the fiend I talked to after said it best, if a little crudely - You don't watch p0$n for the plot, and you don't enjoy Star Wars for the science.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    That's different than claiming plot holes tho.
     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Sounds like we've got ourselves a regular Neil deGrasse Tyson over here... ;)

    [​IMG]

    Really, I think this is interesting stuff to think about, but I think it's best approached with the right framework. It's not necessarily a plothole or failing of Star Wars that it doesn't match up with IRL science, because thats not what Star Wars is trying to do.

    Saying that Star Wars doesn't have real science is like complaining that Austin Powers isn't realistic because it's obvious that Mike Myers plays most of the major roles, or that Les Miserables is full of plot holes because usually people don't walk around singing about their feelings while in the middle of a battle.

    That said, I think it's definitely interesting to talk about this stuff, and I think you chose some interesting topics, @Embo and His Pet Anooba.
     
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  10. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    The bottom line is time dilation makes storytelling and fighting an interstellar conflict extremely challenging. In the book The Forever War the main character William Mandela is born in 1975 and is drafted into the UNEF (United nations expeditionary force) in the late 90’s. Goes off to war against the “Taurans” and by the end of the novel, he finally returns to Earth in the year 3143!!!
     
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  11. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Sensitive

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    have you seen interstellar?
     
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  12. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hater of squid
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

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    Fascinating thread, but I've got a headache, g'night!
     
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  13. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    yes! Superb!
     
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  14. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Yeah... and the only reason hyperspace exists is to move the plot faster.
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I absolutely love Interstellar.

    What a beautiful, existential, terrifying film. One of my favorites!

    But I think you’d agree that it’s absolutely dominated by its portrayal of time. And that’s okay, because it’s kind of the film’s intentional focus.

    But for Star Wars, that would be a lot to keep up with on top of everything else. Imagine Hoth being a problematic planet to stay on because of how much slower time moves on it (giving the Empire literal years to find them), for instance. Lots of interesting things that could be done, for sure- but it’s also extremely restricting, and quickly becomes a burden on the fiction.
     
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