OFFICIAL NEWS SDCC 2015: Lucasfilm's Panel Discussion Thread

I can respect your point of view but it is an extreme end of the spectrum view point.

Luke learned a valuable lesson yyes and should be a mentor. However he can't control everyone around him. I see nothing counter to his character in saying he would life his Lightsaber to protect another. Himself? He might choose a different path sure. That's why the variables of the situation are iimportant.

As for your list, you're welcome to your opinion but it is purely subjective. Others would watch such a scene and come away with a completely different perspective on it.

If this site has shown me anything it's that the SW fan base is huge and very very varied.

Which is good but it means no matter what someone is going to be unhappy.

 

I kind of agree with Snazel, I don't think we will see much of Luke using his lightsaber if at all. I think he will save Rey and Finn at the end of VII from Kylo Ren but through a powerful demonstration of the force. He will then go on to mentor (probably Rey) in VIII. At the VERY most, he will deflect a fatal blow before force pushing Kylo back like another poster above said, but even that probably won't happen. There definitely won't be an extended duel with Luke, if there is one it will be short and sweet.

 

Hey guys I don't know if this is posted already but I found this link with all the pictures from the force awakens behind the scenes reel from comic con, and found some of it interesting.

http://io9.com/a-shot-by-shot-breakdown-of-the-new-star-wars-the-forc-1717503313

There is one shot with the two troopers everyone is curious about.

Cheers...

 

I believe Rey & Finn don't need saving by Luke they can handle themselves, he has his own battle to fight with the darkness pulling Kylo's strings.

 

Everyone needs a little help. Maybe they need to be saved from themselves.

 

This is unfair, I mean I am glad you respect my philosophy but dont' call it extreme. It's a recognition of the very tale the film presents us with.

It also is cognizant of all the actual situation:

1. Mark says he does not want to do it.
2. Mark says he can't do it.
3. The spoilers tell us he doesn't do it.
4. It isn't particularly poetic to have a character like Luke stabbing random people with swords anymore.

It's just that some of you are upset about that but don't understand the dramatic structure that supports those four items.

It's not extreme, it's the reality that we have here in Episode VII and it makes dramatic and poetic sense. It's just that some of you have been raised on action films where the white male protagonist constantly solves all his problems by punching people in the face and then preening and congratulating himself for it.

That's not Star Wars. It never was.

 

I'm not sure who you are arguing against, did anyone ever propose that Luke goes around stabbing random people or solves all his problems with violence?
I don't think anybody is saying that, what we are saying is that it's perfectly plausible for Luke to use his lightsaber if the situation requires it, like when defending himself or others. This does not mean that he will be leading troops in battle in a ridiculous war like the prequel jedis, but between that and never using his lightsaber again there is a big difference.

 

Snazel- There seems to be a slight misunderstanding. My comment wasn't meant as an attack.

The point of conversation is about Luke's behavior and does it fit his character. On one end of the spectrum you have the "swashbuckling" approach on the other the "no Saber at all". In that context yours is at the extreme end of the spectrum.

Mark's age etc may play a role or it may not. As has been pointed out things aren't done exactly the same as they use to. Either way as I said before I don't think either extreme is ultimately the direction they will go. I don't think you will see RotJ attacking Jabba's barge Luke or your version. Even if it is not until Ep VIII I think you will see Luke use his Lightsaber in the ST. I don't think it breaks or hurts his character either.

In fact, even though I am not a big fan of this direction, based on the rumors I can see Luke having tried your path. The lack of action is then part of what helps create the problems we will see. Action without knowing all the information (PT Jedi) and lack of action can both lead to same place.

 

We'll see.

 

Last response to this, as I am beyond frustrated...

This a Straw Man tactic to isolate my interpretation as extreme and misrepresents what I am saying entirely.

As mentioned several times, if they need to give him a saber so they can sell a toy with him holding one, he'll use it in a very quick, deliberate way, either to sacrifice himself for the greater good or a quick draw to protect someone innocent and even then probably wouldn't kill with it. That's not an extreme, that's an assessment of what we know about the film, the character, the director, the writer and the actor involved.

We have no clue what Luke did immediately after ROTJ. Our guess is he was very impatient and assertive in training Jedi and it failed and was disastrous. We don't know, but that seems to be the guess.

How many times must we told that when Luke is reckless bad things happen and when Luke is calm and patient good things happen?

3 films later and we still refuse to see this is Luke's true strength?

When we say: The bravest thing Luke ever did was throw his saber away in front of the most evil and powerful person in the galaxy and without fear and then told him that he refuses to fight.

We are not saying:

• Luke will never use a light saber again.
• Luke is a pacifist.
• The interpretation of Luke above is an extreme point of view.

We are saying:

• Mark Hamill tells us he can't and does not want to do large physical fights anymore and that the film.
• Mark Hamill says this film mostly focuses on the new characters
• The director, writer and actors are all telling us this film focuses on the new characters
• The films have already presented us with the idea that older Jedi become mentors and that passing on your gifts is a vital part of their edict.
• Larry himself said that he always felt Luke should become a Monk like figure like a spaghetti western after ROTJ
• The film already presents us with the idea that Luke thrives best when he is patient, calm and at peace rather than reckless, violent and vengeful.
• The very spoilers we think we know back up everything listed above.

It's not even an argument, it is certainly not a spectrum. It's just a recognition for WHY we are likely to get a very wise, aged, patient Luke Skywalker in Episode VII.

It concedes fully that there is still a chance Luke still spins around with a sword and slashes a half-dozen gumbies in half.

But it also suggests the chance of this is unlikely given all we know about the film and that the interpretation of Luke by Kasdan and JJ (and even Mark Hamill to some degree) is a very poetic one that jives with the general arc of the original films. Therefore, the likelihood of this interpretation being true is high.

Done with this discussion, sorry guys, I know you're trying to find middle ground and discuss fairly, but when I can't even get my point across and it gets misrepresented as "extreme" instead of simply a summary of "what we know about Luke" (at least to the best of our knowledge), it gets frustrating.

I know I am vociferous in my statements about Luke, but I get defiant when I'm simply interpreting what we know, only to be told time and time again I am being is extreme. It's not extreme, it's a summary of everything we know about the character heading into this film.

 

"Done with this discussion, sorry guys, I know you're trying to find middle ground and discuss fairly, but when I can't even get my point across and it gets misrepresented as "extreme" instead of simply a summary of "what we know about Luke" (at least to the best of our knowledge), it gets frustrating"

You may not respond to this but frustrating you wasn't my goal.

With all due respect though I feel you are projecting your own personal take more then anything. You keep using words and phrases others aren't. Obviously the last battle can be looked at from multiple angles if more then one person has agreed with both sides.

Time will tell one way or the other what they decide to do.

 

At the risk of drawing criticism or negative ratings, I have to say that I agree with @Snazel's interpretation of Luke's character arc. I don't think it is an extreme position to take... but I also can see a "middle ground" where Luke takes up the sword in a defensive way here (I don't think @Snazel's position deviates substantially from this "middle ground" either, BTW). That may well be what @Silver and @Aglarion are advocating and maybe you all don't disagree as much as you think you do.

Having said that though, there is definitely a portion of the Star Wars fandom that expects Luke to be an uber-powerful Jedi. I think this is in part because of what happened with the EU and, more specifically, Star Wars video games. I admittedly never got into them like many other fans. However, those representations of the Star Wars universe have seeped into all of our collective consciousness. Nonetheless, the EU and video games really have little to do with the actual post-ROTS movies and canon we know. Is it possible that PT style conflicts with super-hero powers creeps into the ST? Yes, but I don't think it is likely. It is even more unlikely to me that Luke would be involved in such super-hero style conflicts.

Based on his character arc, I think what @Snazel advocates is most likely. However, I would be more than happy with a film where Luke is a lightsaber-wielding-for-defensive-reasons Jedi who sees some action, just not heavy, heavy combat, as I think that torch will be passed. I would be curious if you, @Snazel, would be opposed to Luke defending the young heroes without it being a major "swashbuckling" event? Again, I suspect you guys are all really closer to agreeing than disagreeing in the end.

 

The main point of disagreement seems to be on if Luke uses his Lightsaber is it out of character or not. Myself and others don't see it as such he does.

Now I agree there is a section of the fan base that wants to see super Luke. But that wasn't what I was attempting to discuss.

I also don't claim to know for sure what the plot will be with him. Only that there are multiple ways they could write a scene in which he uses his Lightsaber that fit with tthe character. It wouldn't make him a person who handles everything with violence.

He obviously has a very passionate view of Luke and that's great. Not everyone who grew up watching the OT came to that same view though, which is also fine. Again I was not trying to attack him or his stance.

 

Write a scene were his lightsaber fits the character, Obi wan handled the bar scene well in TNH the violent, drawing a lightsaber is a act of intimidation no matter how you look at it.

 

oh man, I couldn't agree more with this.

Talking about the fan expectation of Luke using his lightsaber, I want to point to the following video of Celebration V. They were screening some of the never before seen deleted scenes from the original trilogy. I remember people were losing their collective minds after they saw new footage of Luke with his ignited lightsaber for the first time in 30 years. At least I remember I was! So I think people are expecting it for sure.

In regards to the fighting style and the general attitude of Luke towards the sword fighting I think there needs to be a damn good reason for him to use his lightsaber. There needs to be meaning to it. If he has been hiding for 30 years, something quite extraordinary must have happened for him to come out and ignite his lightsaber. An awakening perhaps?

I really, really like the reported (and let's call it "alternate") third act, where Luke has grown to be a morally grey character who sees it necessary to kill Kylo for a greater good. He sees absolutely no redemption for him. And it's only Han, his best friend, who with his last breath begs him to not kill Kylo, his son, and to try to turn him as he does see good in him.
Additionally Luke could feel guilty as he could have been responsible for Kylo's fall to the dark side in the first place. Maybe after the academy was attacked he could only save Rey and he feels guilty about it since then. Perhaps even more twisted, he could have left Kylo to die as he only saw a terrible future for the galaxy if he survived. One might argue that if Luke had saved Kylo after the academy attack, Kylo wouldn't have turned like he did. And now his best friend is begging him not to kill Kylo and the terrible future for the galaxy is becoming true. Quite paradoxical.

But anyway, I just love the fact that there is some emotional baggage there, some tension between Luke and Kylo. And having Kylo be Han's son only makes everything even more intense and interesting.

Kylo's fighting style should be incredibly aggressive against Luke as he is filled with rage and disappointment. Poor guy was abandoned and hasn't been loved by anyone, not even his father.
Luke should be trying his best to contain Kylo, but during this fight he realizes how powerful Kylo has become and how dangerous he is. This confirms what he knew all along, he must be stopped at all costs. And I think at this point we could see a more aggressive Luke.


The evolution of Luke's character to a morally grey character makes sense. It is a trend in pop culture that reflects how our mindsets have changed. So in a way we have grown with our heroes to be more morally grey. Many people refer to this as the post 9/11 era.
There are a lot of articles about how heroes and villains have changed. I once read an article that mentioned that the same happened post-vietnam.
This article is an example if you want to read more about it.
http://theconversation.com/the-amazing-renaissance-of-the-superhero-post-9-11-25733


I'm going to be honest. I love this so much that if this does not end up being in the movie I'm going to be so bummed...

 

Yes Obi-Wan used violence in the Cantina. Handling 'A' situation with violence isn't the same as using violence in 'Every' situation. Which is something that kept getting confused in the above conversation. Obi-Wan did try to avoid a fight by offering to get them a drink. Which is part my point, you can hold whatever philosophy you wish but one can't control other people. As such situations may be forced in such a way that a strong or even violent response is needed.

As for a scene that fits... I think using his Lightsaber to block someone like Kylo from killing Rey/Finn etc is completely realistic based on what we know. Such a move could realistically lead to a duel. Which wouldn't have to result in Kylo or Luke's death.

If you're talking just something general I see it completely with in his character to say block blaster fire away from him or others. If say he hypothetically walked into an area and saw Leia about to get shot in the back I think it's fair to say one way he could deal with it would be to step/jump/whatever between her and her attackers and deflect the shots.

Being forced into situations can and does happen. It's not unrealistic.