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Sequel trilogy is just a cash grab + doesn't need to exist. The story has already been told

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by VOODOO, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    I feel it too. I wish we had some sort of certainty that its all worth it.

    This feeling comes from the lack of knowledge of what Lucas had in mind. I mean, yes we may hate him for our own reasons, but I would love to know if Lucas´ or Disney´s Star Wars would have been the Universe we waited for.
     
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  2. Ralok-one

    Ralok-one Rebel Official

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    Lucas had no idea what he was doing, or what he had... I think its pretty much universally known at this point that the success of Star Wars was an accident.

    This is a man who would name a grown man "Windy Starkiller, Flooblast of the Joodu Bandai" with a straight face.

    The uiverse we got on screen with the original Star Wars... that was not George Lucas' vision, that was the highly corportized, modified, and processed version.. and it was all the better for it.

    People wanna Vhlor about corporate exercizes and whatnot, but look what happened when George had complete control over Star Wars...
     
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  3. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebel General

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    Don't feed the trolls.
     
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  4. Lord Phanatic

    Lord Phanatic This isn't Fantasy, this is Reality
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    Star wars will never die and god forbid should it ever. Personally my dreams have come true, except for not being employed in the star wars universe I'm in heaven as far as what I've seen so far with this movie. Can't wait for the fall.
     
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  5. *Definetly Not A Sith Lord*

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    PSST,over here!Want me to tell you why their making the sequels?*looks around* Because I was CLONED and I SURVIVED!!! Damn original!!!

    On a serious note:the saga should continue but because of the prophecy(which was explained by GL that Anakin was the Chosen One who brought balance to the force by destroying the Jedi and Sith) this doesn't make sense(at least to me ). I hope the will explain it in the Sequels (either it's misread or...IT'S A CRAP).Sith Lord out*facepalm cause he gave away his identity
     
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  6. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    Like I once explained to myself. The Force has two sides....and so long the Force exists there will be Force users with their own motives leading them either to the dark side or the light side....Anakin may be the One that has had restored the balance after 1000 years/1000 generations of unbalance....but there could be the last echos of this unbalance coming up to hit the next generation...

    If the Sith can hide for 1000 years/Generations...They even could have had some back-up plan...Or just more dark surprises in storage for the Jedi.

    Sith as for Jedi are quite the persistent kind, you know. They won´t just die out...
     
    #26 Fooled Trooper, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
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  7. Emperor Abrams

    Emperor Abrams Rebel General

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    Yup, which us unfortunately exactly why the original trilogy characters will not be used in a way that makes sense and fits with what happened at the end of Return If The Jedi, but strategically placed and bandied about in ways that are best from a business perspective, i.e., make a big hooplah about the original cast coming back, but only put Luke in a cameo at the end of Episode 7 to tease him having a bigger role in Episode 8 -- as though the audience wouldn't have returned for Episode 8 if Luke had a substantial part in Episode 7. Don't show the original cast reunited and interacting together, no....splice them up. One per each movie. But advertise it like we get to see them all in it together again. All of this is from a completely cold and cynical business perspective....and it has doomed my hopes for Episode 7 now, unfortunately.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 23, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 23, 2015 ---
    Lmao! I love your profile.
     
    #27 Emperor Abrams, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
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  8. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    Hate to say it, but I think your right
     
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  9. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    While I will agree with you that these stories don't "NEED" to exist, I fail to see the harm in them existing. Also quoting George is kinda silly considering how many times the man has flipflopped on his statements through the years, he did give Disney a script for Episode 7 after all(and if he wasn't getting so old, he probably would have made the sequel trilogy himself). I also like that you think that George wasn't motivated by making massive amounts of money with the Prequels, just look at the history of Star Wars merchandising(there are far more Licensed Star Wars products than even systems in the Star Wars Galaxy itself). I'm sure George wanted to tell his story, but its naive to imagine that he did it all out of some noble artistic passion devoid of any monetary concerns. The man wasn't even sure if he was going to make the Prequels for a long time.

    As for Disney buying Star Wars, of course they expect to make money off of it, otherwise they wouldn't have dropped four billion dollars to obtain it in the first place. Disney(and any other film studio for that matter) puts out films to make money, but the films themselves tend to be pretty excellent because they put the films in the hands of people who care. I really fail to see how putting the franchise in the hands of people who care about it and giving them the resources to make it great equates to a cynical cash grab(unless any intent to profit of off the brand is considered a cynical cash grab). Also, I have faith that most of the people involved in these films are doing them for more than just cynical reasons, I honestly believe they want to make great new art in the Star Wars universe. Whether Disney does or not isn't really relevant as long the people they have handling the franchise going forward actually care about it.

    As for the Saga already having a proper ending, I agree, RotJ did tie the trilogy up nicely. However based upon your argument, the Prequels didn't really need to exist either(I have the same misgivings about the Han Solo movie to be honest), the OT gave us everything we needed as far as story and background, heck, as Rebo said in his post, the first Star Wars movie could have been the only one and it would have had a proper beginning, middle and end. So yes, these new films don't "NEED" to exist, but neither did any of the films after the first movie.

    Also, when we look at the ending of RotJ, yes the Death Star is destroyed and the Emperor is dead, obviously this is cause for celebration. But I always thought it was kinda silly to assume that the rest of the Empire just disintegrated after the death of the Emperor, it makes sense that there would be more conflict.

    As to your comparison of Star Wars to Casa Blanca and Its a Wonderful Life, those movies were meant as standalone titles, Star Wars on the other hand was inspired by the Saturday morning adventure serials like Flash Gordon as well as the Sci Fi comic strips that George used to read as a kid. The fact is, Star Wars fits well into a serialized format, something that other properties, like Casa Blanca for instance, don't(while a great story, its not like Casa Blanca created a massive and fascinating new universe for its characters to inhabit).

    Really, no matter what, no one can really tell you that you are wrong, the fact is that we don't "NEED" any of these new movies. However I still find your outlook depressing when I think of all the great stories that have already been told in the Star Wars universe outside of the main Saga. I am glad that Bioware decided to make Knights of the Old Republic and the wonderful characters and stories therein rather than saying "Well, the Saga is complete, I guess there isn't any point to doing any more stories set in that universe". I am glad that new hungry creators will be telling stories in the Star Wars Universe for years to come.
     
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  10. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Complaining that a story imagined and presented in the tradition of episodic serialized pulp space adventures would continue to have more episodes I find odd.
     
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  11. TK-822

    TK-822 1030th Resistance Cadet

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    Just browsing through some of the posts, good discussion but please keep it civil. Thanks :)
     
    #31 TK-822, Jul 25, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
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  12. Kylo Samurai

    Kylo Samurai Rebel General

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    They didn't have to make a PT. But they did. The same applies to the Sequel Trilogy.
    And you're argument that the ST is useless isn't on point. The PT was about the rise of Darth Vader. The OT was about the fall and redemption of Vader. Now the ST will be about the legacy of Vader. Star Wars has always come in threes; we've had trilogies so far, with three episodes per trilogy (obviously). We've had three main leads per trilogy. In my opinion, the ST is the trilogy of trilogies; I really think that both the OT and PT were leading up to this. It's gonna be a fun ride.
     
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  13. General Magma

    General Magma Rebelscum

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    Tell me, then - what exactly *is* necessary?
    It seems as if most of the people working on the new Star Wars stuff, including the upcoming movies,
    are (very) passionate about Star Wars and I think the majority of them genuinely wants to put out some good stories,
    regardless of why Disney made the decision to take over the franchise. If it is a cash grab but if the people who are actually working on it manage
    to put out something decent, good or even great and beyond that, would it really matter? The way I see it is that there are multiple different motives
    behind all of this. Disney wants money, but hires people who are Star Wars fans to direct, write and create and further shape the new movies - people who get to see their dreams come true - I'm sure they wouldn't want to risk being hated by the fandom that they themselves are a part of, so - whether it will work out
    or not sometimes - I am certain that plenty of the people working on the new Star Wars films and such genuinely want to do something good with it.
    Sometimes it does feel the way you described it, but I'm giving it a chance - so either enjoy the ride, give it a chance, or run out of it again...
     
    #33 General Magma, Jul 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
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  14. PoeReyMi

    PoeReyMi Rebel General

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    Part of the point of this movie is to convince you that ROTJ was not the end. A government doesn't collapse because a figurehead dies. Somebody else takes over.

    So I guess we will see whether it is necessary to tell this story once the film is released.
     
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  15. Emperor Abrams

    Emperor Abrams Rebel General

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    Yup.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Crapiola

    Crapiola Clone

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    I agree and although I'm consuming every bit of info about TFA, I'm also concerned.

    We know Arndt's protoscript was scraped, and that was based on George Lucas' outline. I'm hoping that one day we'll get the notes on what Lucas actually envisioned as the continuation of the sage. It does seem like they're following - in very broad strokes - the story that Lucas suggested to Hamill in the desert in 1976 (when he asked if Hamill would return in "2011" as the master passing the torch) - if only in that the OT characters are secondary to new characters.

    When I think about STAR WARS, the moment that has the most significance to me is Vader's indecision while the Emperor is torturing Luke with Force lightning. That moment, more than any other moment - for me - signifies everything about STAR WARS, the Dark Side vs the Light Side, and the redemption of the character that ties everything together.

    I know the PT haters only tolerate those movies in the Machete Order or they simply ignore them. But although I acknowledge that the PT are flawed films, they have greatly enriched my understanding and enjoyment of the OT movies. I like what George Lucas tried to do:
    * That when Leia, in the first few minutes of ANH, is confronted by her father and neither of them knew the truth (I recognize that Lucas didn't know either, but people accept the retconning in the OT without much complaints).
    * That when Obi-Wan tells Vader he'll become more powerful than he can imagine, he knows something Vader cannot imagine about the Force.
    * That Vader is truly dumbfounded at Obi-Wan's empty cloak, and that moment of confusion allows his own son to escape. (Maybe between ANH and ESB Vader spends months in the Jedi Temple, poring over ancient texts and holocrons, trying to find out what the hell happened to Obi-Wan.)
    * That the strong Force presence he felt with the X-Wing fighter who blew up the Death Star made sense when he was told the last name of the pilot.
    Etc., etc.

    I really do like the new way I see the OT because of the PT, and it makes that moment of indecision, as Vader sees his son being tortured, so much bigger and more dramatic... I am going to read every bit of news about TFA before it comes out and watch the movie a bunch of times in the theater. But I really, really, really hope that the new filmmakers don't squander that moment. It was all about Vader and now that he's gone, I'm very worried about where the story can go - especially because the Skywalker twins are still involved.

    Sorry for the rant.
     
  17. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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    Welcome to the Cantina!

    I largely agree with all that you've said here, and have to admit that there's a place in my mind that worries about what we'll be missing without George's masterful application of theme, symbolism and reference. I don't think it's fair to say that we know what Arndt was writing. In fact, I think this is the first time I've heard someone claim he was using George's notes. But the stuff that has come out looks and feels good. With Kasdan on-board, we're getting more than something that simply looks like a Star Wars movie but lacks the heart.

    I think we have a lot to look forward to. Just have to enjoy the ride. :)
     
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  18. Crapiola

    Crapiola Clone

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    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    As far as the timeline, Lucas picked hired Arndt prior or around the time of the sale of Lucasfilm to Disney. It stands to reason he was using Lucas's outline: http://www.starwars.com/news/michael-arndt-to-write-screenplay-for-star-wars-episode-vii
     
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  19. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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  20. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

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    Setting aside whether at one point GL intended there to be more than six or whether he settled on six or whether it would be like casablanca 2, I do see both sides of this. I think the more important thing though, is where the inspiration for Star Wars came from: Serials. I think the weekly shows that inspired GL are more important to the DNA of Star Wars than GL's 6 episode Anakin arc. Thats and important arc. its its own thing. but now, we are moving on to the next thing in his serialization. its not like GL made 6 movies then stopped. He immediatly began work on the clone wars, which actually got him even closer to that serialized feel than he was ever able to achieve in features. They should keep on making them, forever.
     
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