1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Sequel trilogy is just a cash grab + doesn't need to exist. The story has already been told

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by VOODOO, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Posts:
    247
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    3,767
    Credits:
    1,315
    Ratings:
    +532 / 193 / -131
    In all fairness, Lucas's vision of Star Wars in 1974 when he started writing the series evolved over time as most artistic projects do. People cling to the statement Lucas made many years ago (while SW was still evolving) where he envisioned SW as a 9 or 12 part story (stories vary) but to me that is rather insignificant.

    The fact of the matter is the story George Lucas started out to tell evolved into a six film series that centered around the rise/ fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker...Lucas himself said that there was no more story left to tell after ROTS.

    I have little doubt that these films will be leaps and bounds better than the prequels, but I stand by my statement that these films are being made strictly for commercial purposes and that the sequels and spinoffs don't need to exist.

    Do we want to get to a point where there is a SW film every six months like the Marvel films? In my opinion those films are starting to lose steam because they are saturating the market, but they have a positive impact on the companies bottom line...I don't want the SW franchise to become little more than a talking point at Disney stock holders quarterly meeting. The series is better than that.

    All that said I will be first in line to see The Force Awakens, but I see no need for it to exist. I prefer the ending of ROTJ where the characters walk off into the sunset with their dignity intact.
     
  2. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    4,427
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,893
    Ratings:
    +6,711 / 176 / -38
    Actually the PT was a cash grab as Lucas admitted it to Charlie Rose in 2004.

    Lucasfilm was having financial problems in the late 80's/early 90's, and the shareholders went to Lucas and gave him a presentation on the financial advantages of doing a Prequel Trilogy.

    They told him he could make the PT, and the profits would make the company financial solvent and he could do his smaller independent films without the worry of going through the studio system.

    He said another option was to do other non-SW films (and never do another SW film) but he would be reliant on the studios for the rest of his life.

    He made the PT, and cashed in for 4 billion dollars in 2012.
     
  3. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    189
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    4,002
    Credits:
    943
    Ratings:
    +420 / 11 / -2
    I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there weren't shareholders. Did GL not own that company outright?
     
  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    4,427
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,893
    Ratings:
    +6,711 / 176 / -38
    I'm sorry as I was typing it on my phone quickly and shareholders was the word that first came to mind. But the presentation was done by a creative group that included some accountants that pretty much laid out what the positives and negatives could be financially if Lucas were to make the Prequels. I think he was trying to say that it was a more sure thing to get Lucasfilm back in financial footing then going off a doing an new film. But the negative was that he would always be tied to SW for the rest of his career as he would never be able to escape from that franchise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    189
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    4,002
    Credits:
    943
    Ratings:
    +420 / 11 / -2
    I see what you mean. Even after the prequels, the company needed something new injected into it to be vibrant again. Easily the best thing they put out between ROTJ and being sold is Clone Wars (personally). The prequels I like more than most, Shadows of the Empire was an interesting experiment, and trying to exit Star Wars didn't work (I wanted Red Tails to be good so badly, went opening day, and it was depressing how bad it was). The prequels were easily the most surefire way to become profitable again.
     
  6. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    4,427
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,893
    Ratings:
    +6,711 / 176 / -38
    In fairness to Lucas, if I were running a business I would have done the PT too instead trying to make an original movie. Unfortunately the economics favor franchises today as you can milk them to a point, but most of the time you will make nice profit. Look at Terminator Genysis, as bad as that movie was, it did HUGE business overseas (Asian markets love Arnold), so the movie actually made money despite its domestic box office disappointment. They are talking about another sequel not even caring about the US audience anymore, simply because Arnold is still box office gold overseas.

    If Lucas did a new, original movie in 1999, chances are it wouldn't have been as profitable as the PT, so I can't fault the guy for doing what is right for his company. Plus the merchandising is where the real money is at, just remember what Mel Brooks said in Spaceballs, "Merchandising, its all Merchandising!!!" And I think that is many fans point that once Lucas became a businessman, he changed as a filmaker, because the two don't mix.
     
  7. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    189
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    4,002
    Credits:
    943
    Ratings:
    +420 / 11 / -2
    I agree with you almost entirely but will point out that he, while maybe not a businessman, had incredible business sense even in 1977, selling the rights to ANH to Fox to get it made, but keeping entirely the rights to any sequel and to all merchandise. Fox couldn't see the future economics of franchises or the importance of merchandise the way Lucas could, and he is a $4 Billionaire today because of it.

    Also, a side note, because of the money Lucas was basically printing by putting out the prequels and selling merch, he was able to bankrole the clone wars at a very high level of production and treat it as his kind of baby, even if it wasn't actually profitable. That sounds more like an artist than a businessman, but an artist that knows you do still have to pay the bills somehow.
     
  8. skysamfreeman

    skysamfreeman Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Posts:
    140
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    3,107
    Credits:
    914
    Ratings:
    +351 / 24 / -2
    Like you haven't been waiting for Episode VII since 1983... Sure.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Posts:
    247
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    3,767
    Credits:
    1,315
    Ratings:
    +532 / 193 / -131
    I admit that I will be first in line to see this film, but I always thought Lucas had a bigger plan in mind. It turns out he didn't and finished the story in six episodes. The sequel trilogy at this point feels tacked on to me. At the end of ROTJ the story was complete. I can't see where there is anything left to say.

    Sure you can make good movies in the SW universe and as I have said in previous posts I have absolute faith that J.J. Abrams will deliver a superior film than any of George Lucas's inferior prequels, but to me the new films will diminish the ending of ROTJ where the arc of both trilogies was complete simply to re-start the Star Wars cash machine.

    To me it would be the equivalent of hearing news that Casablanca part 2 is on the way and Ingrid Bergman's character gets off the plane to be with Humphrey Bogart's character as an excuse to make Casablanca Part 2 that would be sure to make a lot of money, but completely alter the originals ending/impact.

    I guess I'm saying that sometimes the classics should just be left alone. The endless sequels and anthology films we will get over the coming years will add nothing to Star Wars except a lot of money for the suits running the studios, while at the same time saturate the market (see Marvel) with stories that don't really need to be told.

    There is no reason for the sequel trilogy. The story is already complete.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  10. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    189
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    4,002
    Credits:
    943
    Ratings:
    +420 / 11 / -2
    I guess the difference for me is there isn't Casablanca Video Games, or novelizations, or comic books, or fan fiction. People were craving more Star Wars, why not do it in the highest profile format (motion picture?)
     
  11. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Posts:
    247
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    3,767
    Credits:
    1,315
    Ratings:
    +532 / 193 / -131
    Yes Star Wars is massively popular (you won't find a bigger fan than me) but is that alone reason enough to keep making these films? There just doesn't seem to be more story to be told.

    One of the things that made SW special to say Star Trek was that it had a beginning , a middle and an end. It didn't need to drag on to infinity with mediocre/poor copies of the original (will the new cast of SW have the impact Ford, Hamill +Fisher had? I doubt it) like Star Trek did that eventually hurt the brand.
     
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  12. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,862
    Likes Received:
    5,536
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,058
    Ratings:
    +10,279 / 461 / -131
    There was no point to make the Clone Wars or Rebels too. But I'm VERY glad they did.

    The point is that people who doesn't want to see the movie just won't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,815
    Likes Received:
    11,272
    Trophy Points:
    144,177
    Credits:
    13,749
    Ratings:
    +16,011 / 96 / -33
    To the OP, I agree and disagree;

    First, yes the story that we originally saw has been told, however, the story always goes on and in this case the fans demand it. That's why the franchise is so popular AND profitable....and why Disney paid $4bn for it.

    As far as a "cash grab" goes; I wouldn't personally use that terminology, but as I said before Disney paid a giant sum of money for the single most profitable franchise in the world and you can believe they're GOING to get their money back X10.....and fans like all of us here are going to pull our our wallets and see to it! :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 19, 2015, Original Post Date: Sep 19, 2015 ---
    I noticed references to the Star Trek brand and how it was a full story in every episode, and yes it was. Also, yes Star Trek did get "milked" to a fault, because all of the spin-offs made the series old and tiresome.

    I'm a big Stargate franchise fan....one of the biggest, The problem with that franchise wasn't (IMHO) the spin-offs, but I felt like SG-1 was also neverending and just drug on and on also....but yet I was pissed when it all finally came to an end, and I still am.

    The difference with SW is that it has story arcs. The base story is (yes) ongoing, but I love the arcs and how those stories are told. Each arc is a story of its own that are tied to the next arc.

    Look at it like this: Each trilogy is an arc but at the same time there are three arc's per trilogy. The entire franchise is one giant arc with many arcs...much like all of the episodes of Star Trek TNG...but BIGGER! ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    189
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    4,002
    Credits:
    943
    Ratings:
    +420 / 11 / -2
    Yes. This exactly. Also, it's such a rich universe to mine. You could do an entirely freestanding series I in the old republic, thousands of years earlier and it would technically be the same franchise, but not in the same way marvel out start trek do it. It would be fresh and familiar.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  15. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    2,500
    Likes Received:
    4,603
    Trophy Points:
    14,747
    Credits:
    6,145
    Ratings:
    +7,329 / 99 / -40
    There is major difference between Casablanca and SW there though. Casablanca is a stand alone story about love and sacrifice. The sequel you describe would completely undermine the themes of the film and irreparably damage the original product.

    Star Wars since its inception has been presented as serialized storytelling. It wasn't until the completion of the prequels that it became locked into a 6 story arc about the Skywalkers. Star Wars was always sold as a take on old Sci Fi serials. A sort of "Tune in next week for more exciting adventures" Always to be continuing on with new stories and adventures as long as people wanted them. So, creating more stories doesn't fundamentally alter the nature of Star Wars as it would with Casablanca. At worst it marginalizes the victory (I don't think it does, but I get why some do) at the end of RotJ, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a victory. It doesn't alter the thematic relevance of Luke letting go of his aggression, Annakin's redemption, or the heroic efforts of the rebels and Ewoks to throw down the imperial forces. That all still exists intact. All that changes is that instead of the next adventure picking up right away, we get a breather between each trilogy for the universe to reset.

    At the end of RotS, the battle and story end. Yes, I'm sure there was still conflict. The empire rose to power, Vader hunted the Jedi. But the story of Annakin's fall and the Clone Wars was done. We leave the scene for 20 years and pick up again as the universe gets back to a point where the story becomes relevant again. I don't see the ST as any different. The Rebels go their big victory and the less dramatic skirmishes and business of getting the galaxy back in order happen off screen just as Vader's Jedi hunt or the enslavement of Kashyyk did. Now, as the story is ready to come to a head, we pick it back up again, ready to see the most impactful parts of the ongoing adventures of the Star Wars universe.

    Its one of the things I always loved about Star Wars. It is intended to give you the sense that this universe exists. There have been battles and adventures before, and they will happen again. We are only picking things up in the middle. Getting a snapshot of this universe and the stories it contains. Different than a single self contained story.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  16. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Posts:
    394
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    1,377
    Credits:
    1,022
    Ratings:
    +539 / 42 / -32
    For the simple reason and I can only speak for myself I want more Star Wars stories and yes more Star Wars movies and other content need to be made.
     
  17. Cyber Dyne 1000

    Cyber Dyne 1000 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Posts:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    1,314
    Trophy Points:
    5,777
    Credits:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +2,371 / 69 / -49
    you just need to read her imdb page it speaks for itself http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005086/?ref_=nv_sr_1

    disney will save the franchise because no other company can sustain the amount of ressources it takes to make a lucasfilm project like a star wars film.
     
  18. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Posts:
    4,693
    Likes Received:
    22,808
    Trophy Points:
    147,767
    Credits:
    22,154
    Ratings:
    +26,994 / 125 / -35
    I am a little late on the discussion but I honestly do NOT believe it is a cash grab. SW has grown up with most of us and now there are people who are FANS (J.J.) who are keeping this universe goin (and in the right direction)

    I am so excited for others to have a chance to do SW.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Posts:
    1,336
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Trophy Points:
    8,417
    Credits:
    5,605
    Ratings:
    +3,758 / 238 / -86
    Like every other movie franshise in the world, you are free to see it if you so desire my friend. If you think the story has already been told then I recomend you look away because all you are going to do is hate everything that comes after because your mind is set and no matter how good the movies are you won't accept seeing it that way yet you must remember that there are tons of us fans who love SW and are always willing to see more. Ever since I was a kid I fell in love with many SW alien characters to a point that I would have always loved to know more about them. Why would I want a figure of a dumb blonde guy with a sword or a big monkey when I could have awesome figures like Greedo and Hammerhead? Seeing SW expand and new movies being made that don't have to do with the main tale is a dream come true for me as many of my fantasys may indeed become a reality! Some fans see SW as just the Skywalker tale but many others see the galaxy far far away as something vast that merits further exploration beyond Luke and Solo. If you don't like this idea than don't go see the movies any more but if you are willing to expand your mind set and give the new movies a try with these things in mind, I'm sure you will love SW and see it as something bigger and way more awesome than what you have seen so far.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  20. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Posts:
    4,693
    Likes Received:
    22,808
    Trophy Points:
    147,767
    Credits:
    22,154
    Ratings:
    +26,994 / 125 / -35
    Didn't George once say it was a 12 film saga or could be?
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page