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Should John Williams quit before Eps 8 & 9?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Master Raze Golladio, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. Master Raze Golladio

    Master Raze Golladio Rebel General

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    I know the purists amongst us will be furious at the very suggestion of this, but hear me out.

    I've been listening to the soundtrack for TFA a lot recently, and I can't help buy notice that it's particularly weak stuff. Sure, there's some monents that beautifully hearken back to the soundtrack of the OT, and sometimes even the PT at times, and it overall, the work is disctictively John Williams' work. But there were no actual major themes that stood out, and it felt like the old themes were a bit over-used. The Kylo Ren theme was just terrible! It didn't say "imposing", or "threatening", or "dangerous" in any way like the Imperial March or Duel of the Fates.... And the rest of the music was just like background Star Wars videogame music.

    So I find myself wondering - is it time for Mr Williams to hang up his hat and pass the baton (pardon the pun) to someone like Mark Griskey, Jeremy Soule, Frank Klepacki or one of the many artists who put together the soundtrack to The Old Republic? What do you think?
     
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  2. Valkyrst

    Valkyrst Clone Trooper

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    Bombastic soundtracks seem to be favored more nowadays, but I think Williams' soundtrack fit the film very well. In fact the only place I feel he fell down was during the duel. Otherwise, the rest of the music is pretty strong. The First Order, Resistance, Rey, Snoke and Kylo Ren all had great stuff.
     
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  3. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    I dont think so. TFA's soundtrack has good momments, specially "final steps and finale". Also Rey's and Kylo's theme are awesome.
     
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  4. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

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    I'm agree with most of what you say, and I'm as a big fan of the Star Wars soundtracks as of the films (being a musician myself). Nonetheless, Rey's Theme is just FANTASTIC, unbeatable John Williams, an instant classic. It's epic, nostalgic, mysterious... it's Star Wars, it's Rey, it's it all, and it would be unfair not to mention it when talking about this soundtrack. Kylo Ren's theme is weak, Resistance theme as well and so on, but what's the alternative? Because honestly, people applauded Jedi theme from TFA theatrical trailer, and I'd say yes, it's good for a trailer, it SUCKS as a derivative piece of music. I don't want Star Wars using all the Hans Zimmer tricks which has become the standard by all epic soundtracks nowadays. IMHO Williams can stay here as long as he wishes.
     
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  5. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    TFA soundtrack is more complex than people are giving it credit for. Sure, it doesn't have the Imperial March or Duel of the Fates, but it has Rey's Theme, March of the Resistance, Torn Apart and Jedi Steps. I, for one, cannot wait to see how Williams builds upon them in the coming movies. So, no, he shouldn't quit. For as long he is healthy and willing, I hope he does Star Wars music.
     
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  6. K2P2

    K2P2 Clone

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    I understand where you come from, but I must disagree overall. I also felt that the TFA soundtrack was lacking at times, but only during a few scenes (of which I won't mention, because spoilers). But overall, the soundtrack was very agreeable to me (which personally says a lot because I hold John Williams' music in very high esteem and the TFA soundtrack not meeting expectations was one of my greatest concerns for the two years leading up to TFA's release).

    And as for original material, this soundtrack has some very memorable moments which refuse to leave your head such as "Rey's Theme" and "Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle." These pieces are not as epic as "Duel of the Fates" or "Han Solo and the Princess," but they serve their purpose in attaching you to the characters.

    In the final consensus, John Williams should continue to compose for 8 and 9.
     
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  7. TYCHETH

    TYCHETH Rebel Trooper

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    There are many reasons, nowadays, on how creative decisions from filmmakers or producers affect soundtracks. Among them, aesthetics and / or temp music / creative freedom, etc.

    I agree that, initially, after a 1st watch, I thought the same, specially during the action parts. There are moments when the score for Battlefront (Star Wars on Steroids but recorded at Abbey Road and with a perfect blend of OT and PT orchestration) sounds way more suited for that film, which I agree might lack some sense of thrill and "danger" that did happen on the OT.

    However, there might be several reasons for that:

    1. That Williams, used to write with an almost finished cut of the movie couldn't grasp the whole picture (he had been given the movie on 30 minute segments, with several re-editing).
    2. That Williams, used to interweave characters and themes throughout a film, didn't get answers for most of the character's backstory, thus leaving him unable to do something more deep.
    3. Some of the scenes (specially the most emotive ones) were done with a minimal amount of music. This is a common trend nowadays, in order to get away from the old blockbuster scores that tended to feature music "too prominently". Williams might have been given that instruction too.
    4. That, on the contrary, Abrams gave him too much freedom and didn't supervise anything out of respect for WIlliams, and therefore being unable to work closely with him on what is needed for the whole picture or certain scenes.

    BUT...

    my 5th opinion, specially after a few listens and an analysis I did the other day, I found out that there is SO MUCH more to the music than meets the ear.

    I think that it's a very clever and meticously crafted music, where everything has been intentionally chosen as it is. Specially on Rey's and Kylo Ren's characters.

    The music, just as the movie, seem to be in an "infant" or dormant state, with characters just waiting to be "awakened", like the characters of the story. Considering the full Trilogy ahead, you should expect a full development of the themes and music in order to reach a climatic point somewhere during the end of Ep8 and 9. I'm fairly confident that this will be the case, as ep7 was only intended to be a soft reboot. I'm truly certain we can expect a full blown musical arc in the next installments...and if not, I'll eat my words :p

    Just in case anybody wants to check my analysis (already on another thread), here it is:



    It deals with secret messages hidden by Williams in the score that might be pretty revealing and showing the kind of thought put behind in the score.

    Happy New Year, btw!
     
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  8. PoeReyme

    PoeReyme Clone

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    Maybe he should. He may have lost his mojo like George Lucas did before TFM. I'm glad Disney owns the Franchise.
     
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  9. Legend Knight

    Legend Knight Force Sensitive

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    No he needs to stay if he is able. The score for TFA is more personal and not as bombastic as say TPM was. I think that is cool though. Rey's Theme is some of his best work.
     
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  10. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    If you listen to JW's TFA score there is some good stuff in there. The end credits is the most powerful when it is all put together. I can listen to the end credits over and over.
     
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  11. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I think you should give it a chance, while there are some parts that have not caught my attention yet, many of them are simply superb:

    the scavenger
    i can fly anything
    rey's theme
    march of the resistance
    farewell and the trip
    the jedi steps and finale

    It will grow on you, you just need to listen to it a bit more.
    I can just cry by listening to the last theme and imagining that scene of the movie.

    Having said that, I have no problem in having the people who wrote kotor and swtor music, those star wars soundtracks are nearly as good as William's in my opinion.
     
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  12. curlytoot

    curlytoot Clone Commander

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    I felt like Rey's theme majorly stood out in the film. It's the very musical heart and soul of this film. As for Kylo, I thought the theme—more of a motif, really—was excellent! Not "Duel of the Fates" or "The Imperial March" as you've said. But it didn't have to be and wasn't supposed to be. This is meant to be a theme for a villain who is still rather immature, both emotionally and in the dark side. The motif has a very "Golden Age"-esque vibe, and IMO it suits the film and character PERFECTLY. One of the most biting, menacing bad-guy motifs I can recall from Williams. The accompanimental brass fanfares during its first appearance are so deliciously sinister.

    Even the people over at the JWFAN forums first thought of this score as not being particularly strong, but by this point almost every member there has changed their mind. All of the major film music review sites are hailing TFA as essentially a masterpiece. So, to answer your question...

    No. John Williams should not quit. We're lucky to have him still around and willing to work. I feel that, if he does 8 & 9, after the trilogy is over it'll be amazing to go back to 7 and see the thematic seeds he so cleverly planted. He needs to be given the chance to let those seeds grow.
     
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  13. Edgeguts

    Edgeguts Rebel Commander

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    Let the man retire , he's done an awesome job over the decades. twilight is upon him and soon night must fall
     
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  14. Hunin

    Hunin Rebel General

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    As I've said elsewhere ( sounding like a broken record ironically ) the TFA score introduces more new material than any previous SW score.
    John Williams himself stated many times that he scored ANH as a "one off" and you can readily hear both that and that TFA is a different beast.
    I can't wait to hear the fabric thicken and grow with the next two movies.
    Should he not be able to score those it would literally be the worst thing that ever happened to motion picture music.
     
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  15. General Magma

    General Magma Rebelscum

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    The TFA soundtrack fits, I'd say.
    But, we've got to face it, he won't be able to do the soundtracks anymore one day. I hope he'll be able to stick around for VIII and IX, at the very least, but I don't know who could possibly replace him after that. The composers of the music for the Old Republic MMO (or the KOTOR games) could be good, especially for Old Republic films, I'm just not too sure how they'd fare when it comes to "regular" SW films.
     
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  16. toneb

    toneb Rebel Trooper

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    Just because there is no big loud new themes in it , doesnt make it a bad score. This is a great score that supports the film perfectly. To hint that this has some poor music in it is a smack in the face to Williams creating brand new music. There is a lot going on in this score. People dissing this score are crazy. Do you think that anyone could score it any better? I mean , really? Maybe jerry goldsmith , but hes dead. You want Hans Zimmer to do it? Be careful what you wish for.
     
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  17. Darth_Jones

    Darth_Jones Rebelscum

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    Stopped taking this post seriously as soon as you said the TFA soundtrack was weak
     
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  18. Dynamixx88

    Dynamixx88 Rebel General

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    The soundtrack is awesome, the sad thing about it is, that it doesn't try to mimick the previous ones and goes more with trends.
    It's more Zimmer-like and technically, it's even better then the previous soundtracks.

    People are just pissed that there is no Imperial March-like, Duel of the Fates-like tracks etc. And for them, the music is weak, because it is not ''poppy''
    with anthems and lead melodies.

    I want Williams for all the three episodes.
     
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  19. Totoew Ketvas

    Totoew Ketvas Rebel Trooper

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    No, he should do them all if he can - if not, I think the people who made the Star Wars: The Old Republic sound track might be a good candidate :


    that soundtrack really is Star Wars and fit perfectly to me -

    and second maybe the people who made the KOTOR maybe however I am sure there are other good ones too.
     
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  20. Lord Phanatic

    Lord Phanatic Encased in Carbonite since '82

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    I get what your saying. People should not dis it just to dis it out of spite. But if it's how someone genuinely feels then that's just how they feel. I just didn't feel that ESB ROTJ bamm.......in your face. I remember one member stating that the music in star wars is it's own star wars character. If I had to guage the music according to that I would say that the music in the force awakens is borderline backround character. I'm not trying to disrespect Mr. Williams because he is like a god to me. I'm just stating how I felt when I saw the movie and I've seen it 5 times. And plus I love the movie and it gets better everytime I see it. It could intensify with every episode though and the level of impact in this first episode could indeed have been purposely crafted that way.
     
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