SPECULATION Should Star Wars Fans be Concerned?

While I didn't love last night's episode at all, I don't think many of the problems I had with it would ever be a factor in the GFFA.

I'm not concerned. Despite a noticeable dip in quality it's not as if the show has completely fallen off a cliff. It's still one of the best things on TV right now. I know people still hold that X-Men movie against Benioff but I'd like to think that in the near decade of working on GOT, even if for the first 2/3rds they were producing someone else's work, he along with Weiss have learned how to craft better stories.

 

There was a LOT to love about it. I never felt that sense of forbidding and fear. I was shaking throughout most of the episode and by the end was having trouble breathing.

I have one or two issues with the episode itself. My bigger gripe is the knock on effect on the series overall. Of course this could have been avoided had bloody Martin finished the books by now.

 

IMO that X-men movie was at least somewhat enjoyable, but troy was really boring.

 

You never felt the sense of forbidding and fear yet by the end you were having trouble breathing. Something doesnt add up.

 

This episode is by far the most concerning for their Star Wars films as it showed a general disregard for the last 4 seasons and didn't pay off that attempt to subvert expectations.

I hope with a film they won't feel rushed or constrained by budget.

 

I meant to say that in a TV episode I'd never felt the sort of dread and fear as I felt in that episode. By the end I was having trouble breathing. Hope this is clearer.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2019 ---

Yep. There is a quote form one of the guys talking about how they lobbied for YEARS to get an undead polar bear. My question is, why not lobby to get more money so we can see ghost more often? How about ice spiders in Sunday's episode?

I think they totally disregarded what had been built up for all of the previous 7 seasons, at least in some cases. Theon's arc was beautiful (but I suspect Martin might have told them that is how he ends). So far Bran and Jon appear to be Piffers on a bull. Sure Bran gave Arya the dagger, but I figured green seeing would be a bit more important than that. Maybe I expected too much? I don't know. I guess we will see how the next 3 episodes turn out.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2019 ---

Totally agree, even though we might have different issues. I feel like having Arya do it, while yes, it was surprising, and does (in a way) end her arc, ruins Jon in the process. He is the song of ice and fire. If he wasn't there to end the evil of "the others" (white walkers in the show) then WTF? I feel like Arya came full circle when they made her human again. Having her kick ass would have been enough. Jon really felt wasted in that episode.

I've defended a lot of their choices in the series, but this one feels bad. Lazy and cowardly: they should have killed more of the "favorites." Brienne, Pod, Tormund should have died. Brienne fulfilled her dream. And they need to stop making Tyrion into a fool.

Sorry for the rant. But darn it that was the episode I'd been dying to see (probably not the only one) and it feels underwhelming and cheap.

 

The long and skinny of it is this, for me at least:

Jon just needed to so *something* in those final moments leading to Arya killing him. Just something. Didn't have to hit the kill shot but he needed to be the catalyst for it to make sense IMO.

That's it. He distracts the NK for 10 seconds and she does her ninja blast. There. But to make it seem that simple is...deflating considering at least *two* characters were built around the prophecy of "The Prince Who Was Promised"

 

Agreed. It failed where (IMO) TLJ succeeded in subverting expectations. Luke was still Luke by the end, he was the "new hope." Jon is, right now, nothing in the story. The only other interesting thing about him is his true identity but he doesn't even want the titles that come with it....

 

I think there are some fair criticisms of it here, but on some other sites I've seen a much more... let's say "familiar" response to the episode.

Far less coherent arguments, a constant general air of misogyny (then a retreat on it when they're called out), criticisms that don't hold up in the series' own logic... just a general vibe that reeks of Cinema Sins fanboys.

Again, I think many of you here do bring up good points, but I do worry, given how familiar the rhetoric is elsewhere- do you think this could possibly be an organized effort to try and discredit B&W before their Star Wars comes out? I hate to sound like a loony conspiracy theorist, but... I mean, it just seems all too similar to the RJ stuff.

 

I don’t think we have anything to worry about with D&D. We must remember that they have been adapting an entirely unadaptable series of books for TV and they were always going to have to make short cuts and sacrifices. A 500 hour TV show of a verbatim rendition of GRRM’s writing would be unwatchable; screen & literature are simply two completely different media. That said, I think one can legitimately criticize their decision to suddenly start wrapping things up around season… 6, was it? You can practically hear them deciding, “ah, screw this! Let’s finish this show already, ‘cause GRRM is never going to complete his series on time, so let’s just work with what we have now and let GRRM’s future books develop in whatever direction they take.” So yeah, I can see why people would like 20 more seasons of GOT, but I do believe they’re ending it at a good time before the balloon inflates and interest starts to plummet. (Weiss & Benioff's writing "problem" in GOT is directly linked to GRRM's writing problem with Winds of Winter, by the way; the story has grown so immense and many-faceted that actually concluding the work in a way that satisfyingly ties up all the loose ends and arcs is nigh impossible. While I believe Martin WILL get there eventually, 'cause he's a strong enough writer to pull through the "mess" he as put himself in, I don't think it would be realistic to demand the same from a TV show; ASoIaF's scope just cannot be done in a visual media.

Their adaption, apart from the “hurrying up and finish”-thing, has been great! GOT has frequently been one of the best shows on TV, ever. And D&D has maintained vision for a decade-and-a-half (so no wonder they want to finish it now), and their writing has ranged from decent to fantastic! Their directing has also been strong, but their greatest strength directing-wise has been choosing even stronger directors for episodes where they knew they weren’t themselves the greatest choice. And furthermore, D&D have assembled an absolutely fantastic crew around them and built a GOT-family right from the actors, down through the effects people and prop-makers, all the way to the extras and catering folk and whathaveyou. THIS bodes very well for their handling of a SW trilogy, their ability to choose and attract wonderful talent at every stage of the production. Of particular importance here, I think, is D&D’s casting people, who have scored 10 out or 10 on very nearly every single actor hired for GOT; their track record here is incredible! Here one ought also to mention the fantastic direction work that this show's directors (including W&B) has done for its actors, particularly the unexperienced ones, and specifically their child actors. If Jake Lloyd had been given directions and parts akin to what the GOT kids have received, he would’ve been a major acting star by now.

I’m very much looking forward to seeing what Weiss & Benioff’s story is going to be, and I have absolute faith in their ability to carry a huge project like a SW trilogy. It's only gonna be like 7-8 hours long anyway, right?

So, nope, no concern here

 

@Angelman we will have to agree to disagree about their writing. Season 5, 6 and 7 had some good stuff, but the writing... Tyrion's character has been hacked. Viserys and Littlefinger were turned into black and white caricatures of what they are in the books. Euron.... I'm not even going to talk about that piece of garbage of a character. They've also hacked Cersei...

Anyway, I was willing to overlook things in that I get TV and literature are way different mediums. I also understand that they want to move on. However, You do the job right. They KNEW this was a decade long project, at least.

I'll reserve judgement about what they might do with Star Wars until I see it, but the work what's his name did with Wolverine and the way they've hacked GOT since season 4 makes me VERY concerned now. I was hoping they'd plant the ending, but so far the only episode I found good was 8.2

 

I've seen this "writing" complaint a lot.

Do you mean dialogue specifically? Or just characterization in general?

 

I rescind my previous statement, I'm worried now.

 

Both. The dialogue has dropped in quality. Tyrion always making Eunuch jokes with Varys is just one example. But the characterization has me worried. It seems these two prefer spectacle and shock value to anything else.

And again, I get that they want to move on, but what did they expect when they took this on? A series over 5 years? If they read the books then they should have known this is a mammoth project. Each book could easily be two seasons. Especially A Feast of Crows and a Dance With Dragons. Tons of stuff there. And by hacking out threads and characters you get so far off course, that when you do try and course correct, in seasons 7 and 8, you get this.

To make it worse, they ignore their own already established "rules". Last year we saw Drogon get hit with a scorpion, but we have been told you can't kill dragons like that (in the books I know but still). Then bloody Euron, the worst character ever, shows up with magical scorpions that can not only destroy ships, but they kill dragons????

I know this isn't the place to complain about GOT, and I really hope they can do a good job with Star Wars, but if KK thought she was getting the genius behind the first 4 seasons, she is sadly mistaken. She got the same guy who did that first Wolverine film, and that was a mess (and I love Wolverine but even I hated that film). I was all on board for them doing Star Wars. I figured they'd course correct and all would be well. I was mistaken. Mea Culpa. God help us.

 

I kept my peace about B&W, but I had misgivings since season 4 ended. FoC and DWD is deep. There is a ton of stuff in there that is good, complex, and should have been adapted. But when they dumped all of that and then had Jaimie go to Dorne, I was worried. The changes in Varys' character and the Littlefinger teleportation machine, all of that worried me. But I said, "hey, it's TV, its' a different medium." Now... Now all of my misgivings are pouring out. I think George even said recently they could have had a show that went on for like 15 seasons, and I agree. I realize actors would want to move on, but that is why you ten recast the actor.

I see why George no longer talks the show up. Oh well, hopefully he will finish the books. As for Star Wars, I just don't know. I'm always willing to give something a shot. I personally am not happy with the idea of either RJ or B&W anymore leading the film side of LFL for the next decade. I'll reserve judgement until I see what they do, but I for one am very worried.

 

I have lost total faith in D&D after the last 2 seasons of GOT. These seasons (post GRRM books) have no setup, no development for characters and storylines as they are just moving from point A to point D. GRRM’s stories moved from point A to point B to point C to point D, so the payoff felt earned.

It was such a great show for 6 seasons that kept me on my toes cause you NEVER knew where anything was going. Now it so predictable and cliched as it feels like a summer blockbuster as they are trying to wow the audience with the big stuff. GRRM wowed us with the small stuff.

 

As long as nobody leaves a starbucks coffee cup sitting on the bridge of a Star Destroyer while shooting...

I've never seen GoT, so I can't really comment on the quality of the writing. However I am concerned about certain "adult" aspects of the content. GoT isn't exactly family friendly. I'd really hate to see the kind of extreme content found in GoT to be dragged into a series of Star Wars films.

Here's hoping Benioff and Weiss can do the job without resorting to too much explicit imagery. I'd like to think that it wouldn't happen with Disney and Lucasfilm involved, but you never know. Just gotta wait and see, I guess.