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SPECULATION Should Star Wars Fans be Concerned?

Discussion in 'Benioff & Weiss's Film Series' started by DailyPlunge, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    Sure, B&W know the general beats of the song so to speak. But they've not nailed the landing. Why? because for some strange reason they shortened the number of episodes/season AND decided to end at 8 (not sure why 8 was the magic number but so be it). Making season 7 10 episodes long would help to get rid of the ridiculousness of episode 6 (which I love by the way but I totally get why people dislike it). Having season 8 a couple of episodes longer as well as ending with the Battle of Winterfell would have also been better. Then they could develop the war for the throne, spend time developing the fall of Daenerys, the betrayal of her by Varys, etc...

    Having said that, they could also fix some of the problems with a bit of editing here and there. But for some reason they didn't.

    I'm not too upset by the cutting out of Ashara Dayne, but they ruined the Dornish plot, the attempt to woo Daenerys by Quentyn Martell and Faegon. All of that is going to be important later. Especially Faegon. I'm not as upset now as I was in the aftermath of 8.4. God I hate that episode. 8.5 isn't bad. Just a bit of adjustment and I think it would be great. At the end of the day they did the impossible, they adapted a story that was PURPOSELY written to be unfilmable. They should be given credit for that. They also had to try and write characters they didn't create, finish a story that isn't theirs, AND do it all while knowing perhaps the greatest writer in the fantasy genre since Tolkien himself is going to follow them up with the books. No pressure!!! LOL
     
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  2. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Felt that we had tons of foreshadowing about the fall of Daenerys since the 1st season. I thought 8.5 was excellent, but although I was not surprised by Dany going mad it was how they did it. Instead of the destruction being because of the battle of Kings Landing she basically torched everyone because they didnt love her once she set foot on Westeros. My only real overall issue with the last 2 seasons was the use of a transporter particularly by Euron. Man that man could move around a map real quick.
     
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  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I believe there were cost issues around why they shortened S7 and S8. I can't say I know for sure but actors tend to get paid per episode. So while you could easily take S7 and S8 and break it down to 10 episodes per season in terms of running time length, I believe the expense would have been higher.

    I am of 2 opinions on the matter.... while I try to "forgive" producers when real-world concerns beyond their control arise, I do not like the fact that we got one format for 6 years and then a pretty drastic change for seasons 7 and 8. It certainly contributes to the rushed feeling of S8. IMHO, I think they should have resolved the storyline with the Night King in S7 and dedicated S8 to the fight for the Iron Throne. I also think the first 2 episodes of S8 were pretty much wasted so I see them as cramming everything in to these 4 final episodes, another production choice I can't say I'm on board with.

    Having said that, I still am overall enjoying the final product. It could have been better IMHO but I am certainly not among the group of those who are really upset with the goings-on in Westeros.
     
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  4. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    I have a problem with them using Euron as a sort of "deus-ex machina" type who, instead of helping out the characters, is always there to do the opposite. Like in episode 4. What is this guy, a freak of nature? He hits Rhaegal from far out on a bobbing ship? And does it what, 3 times in a few seconds? Those things should take longer to reload. I really think Euron is a poorly written character. I also hate how now Tyrion is stupid and makes stupid decisions like all the time; Cersei suddenly is one step ahead of her opponents, while in the books she has descended into being a mean stupid bitter woman.

    From what I understand, HBO offered to expand the budget to allow more episodes and wanted more seasons. I think the term was "blank check" although of course it would have a limit.

    I liked episode 8.2 but felt like in 8.3 they should have killed off several more characters, since their arcs we're completed, or at the very least have reordered Jorah's death to happen early on. I do think 8.4 is just horrible, but overall season 8 isn't as bad as some are making it out (myself included, especially in the aftermath of 8.4). I vacillate between them being hacks unworthy of the name writer and then understanding that they are adapting something that was purposely written to be unadaptable.

    I will say this: as I calm down from the disappointment of 8.4, I realize they will be okay with Star Wars. Perhaps even better than ok. They have a ton of material to draw upon if they are truly doing The Knights of the Old Republic, so that will help. Further, the story is no where near as complex as The Song of Ice and Fire. I just hope the backlash helps bring them back down to earth and teaches them the lesson that they shouldn't believe their own hype.
     
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  5. TheDarkTight

    TheDarkTight Clone Commander

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    No.
     
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  6. KeithF1138

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    I agree about Euron in EP4 somewhat. They made it more dramatic by having him hit 3 times in succession. Now it isnt unfeasible had the whole Iron fleet shot at once Rhaegal could still have been hit multiple times and killed. So yes Euron still and issue, but taking at Rhaegal isnt. Not sure if Tyrion is making bad decisions or rather the decisions are between rock and a hard place and several in a row didnt work out. As for Cersei she is way past where she is in the books. If I recall correctly Cersei has just completed the walk of shame in the books.

    My problems in 8.4 are minor and they are execution problems not story problems. Really centered on 2 things. The killing of Rhaegal scene. After Euron fires on Dany why doesnt she roast them? Makes no sense. Last scene just looks so dumb. Why wouldnt Cersei kill them all. From the killing of Rhaegal information they were all in range of the scorpions. Just simply should have had everyone much further back.

    As for doing the The Knights of Old Republic I feel they have basically no material (throw 99.9% of EU away) and that is a very good thing. Gives them far more freedom then they had with Song of Ice and Fire.
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Rhaegal should have been killed at the siege of King's Landing as the bells were tolling. That gives Dany motivation for her turn rather than "Lulz Mad Queen because of course!"
     
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  8. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    For me the problem with Rhaegar and his death is that, and this sounds I don't know, probably weird, but Dragons don't die that easily. Even Martin himself has said Dragons can't be killed just because someone shoots a big arrow at them. Their scales are too tough and their bones are like iron. Euron is on a moving ship. Bobbing up and down in the water. To hit him 3 successive times? bantha poodoo man. It's cheap. They build up the dragons (rightfully so) and then its like they forgot they aren't going to die like that. They even said themselves a Dragon is like having an F-18.

    I also think my problem with the show, one I over looked until this season, is that I've read the books and loved them. The show REALLY butchered AFOC and ADWD, and by doing that they screwed themselves.

    As for the EU, I don't think they will just throw all of that old EU out. I think they will mine it, pick and choose what they want. If they do I personally think they'll be okay. If not, if they do what you suggest, then I think they will be screwed. I'm sorry, but they are not very good writers. Season 5 was a mess. Season 7 had MAJOR issues and well, season 8 is just...
     
  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    It was done simply to up the tension on the siege of Kings Landing
     
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  10. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Think issue with that is then Jon Snow would be expected to be on Rhaegal. She went all mad queen because no one in Westeros loves her. All the people she loves have died. Even at the dinner at Winterfell they were showing this. No one said thank you to her. She praised Arya, she made Gendry a Lord and gave him a kingdom. Jon was praised and even praised for riding a dragon. She was the outcast even though she sacrificed her goals. Jon rejected her and then Jon rejected her again before the battle of Kings Landing.

    I do think it would have been better if they had faced more resistance and she had to start burning to take over and then she just didnt stop once she was in that mindset. I did read something couple of days ago that showed that everytime she used political means to get a goal it really didnt work and she then just burned them all once her dragon could burn things.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2019, Original Post Date: May 17, 2019 ---
    You glossed right over my point. Lets forget about the dragons being invincible. The point was instead of Euron hitting him 3 successive times they could have had all 12 (thats approximately how many ships Euron had) shoot at once and boom Rhaegal out. Not as dramatic, but more believable with as you put it bobbing up and down in the water.

    With less material that dare I say is Canon to deal with since they can totally ignore the EU, thank god, they can concentrate on the story they want to tell. Sure they can pick something if they want, but no need to at all.

    I have also read the books and it has been a monumental achievement bringing those books to the screen. Also remember GRRM has been telling them what is going to happen in the books.
     
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  11. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Concerned about what?
     
  12. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    Thanks for joining this discussion. You question is answered in several of the posts in this thread, but I'll quote the first one.
     
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  13. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    So, D&D are the show runners and RJ directs the first one? If this is the case, then I'm not too concerned. Seems like a pretty good pairing.
     
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  14. Solo

    Solo Rebel Official

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    You haven't been watching Game of Thrones, have you?

    EDIT: Over 1 million people have signed a petition to have the final season of GoT remade... which pretty much says it all.
     
    #94 Solo, May 19, 2019 at 12:18 PM
    Last edited: May 19, 2019 at 1:01 PM
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  15. Smullie_1138

    Smullie_1138 Rebelscum

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    Just like petitions to remake the Prequels, or the Last Jedi, or any other pop culture thing a certain group of people can't make peace with. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

    Also, don't forget it's 2019. Many people are just casting their vote to "fit in". As long as certain youtube pages advocate it (same with for example facebook or instagram), lots of people just simply follow that opinion, maybe even without actually agreeing. Unfortunately, we live in a time where this kind of internet peer pressure exists. It appears it's not possible to just simply don't like someting and move on anymore. No, it's a mandate to enforce that opinion on others, to get as much followers as possible. And unfortunately, this works. I have friends who, for example, would realy like Lost (got a lot of flack for it's final season - is this a trend?), even Star Wars, because of this. A shame really.


    On topic: if GoT as a whole is an indication, I'd say there's nothing to worry about. To each their own, but if they're really gonna break new grounds with these new SW movies, I'm thinking we're in for something really special.
     
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  16. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    What does this say? People are babies? We live in age where a vocal minority can be mad online and can participate in online polls and sign silly petitions.

    The past couple of weeks have been odd. I started this thread because there's been issues with Game of Thrones for a long time. That aside, the idea that there's been some kind of change this season is silly. This is a show that beats the audience to death with foreshadowing. So many of the "twists" this season haven't delivered for me, but I'm not upset about it. Dany's heel turn has to happen. If it doesn't it invalidate seasons of building to that moment.

    It's a story. If you don't like it turn it off. No one owes you anything.
     
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  17. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    No, I'm not concerned. Just because many didn't like the last two episodes of "Game of Thrones", doesn't mean that Benioff and Weiss are incapable of handling a Star Wars trilogy. Hell, I dislike "The Last Jedi". But I'm still a fan of "Looper". So, I think it's best to wait and see how these two handle their SW movies.
     
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  18. DeakStarkiller

    DeakStarkiller Rebelscum

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    Same with TPM! The view has changed. TLJ hasn't aged well....in less than 2 years! They'd be nuts to keep going in that direction, but whatever, they'll do what they want.
     
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  19. Jawajedi12

    Jawajedi12 Clone

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    I do not think they're going to hurt the franchise
    Rian Johnson already did it with one single movie At least I think their movies will be entertaining but I do not expect masterpieces with a good story

    But they will be better than the Sequels
     
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  20. DeakStarkiller

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    I agree about RJ. The issue here is story. SW dialogue has never been very good. The OT dialogue is more polished than the PT dialogue, but what people love about 1-6 and TCW is the story and the characters. If they can nail that, and I think they'd have to stick close to Lucas to achieve it, they can pull it off. They've already mentioned the story problem with the new films, and they just got a taste of a seriously disgruntled audience. If they swallow their pride and knuckle down, they can pull this franchise out of the dumps.
     
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