Should these films be made? Are they just a cash grab for Disney?

Jeez, what do you expect Disney to do after shelling out BILLIONS of dollars for the franchise? Would you expect that they'd want to earn some of that money back?

 

If you know anything about George Lucas & his history regarding concrete statements, then you'd know he's the king of contradiction!

Read "the secret history of Star Wars" & you'll understand what I mean... if I had a dollar for every time the author said "but contradicting himself yet again"... I'd have enough to buy a stuffed pizza.

Exactly.

That's revisionist history... a *BIG* piece of the puzzle you need to be aware of: Lucas wrote a post ROTJ outline in the 70's/ 80's... that 12 episode saga was his intention post ANH after the surprise success of Star Wars but Lucas was unaware that he'd be required to micromanage film production after the ESB "fiasco" (not allowing Gary Kurtz to ruin the film by rushing Irvin Kershner). Had it not been for that I think we would have gotten all 12, but financing the construction of Skywalker ranch was Lucas's priority from the start of his career... & of course the family issues put their nail in the coffin for the 12 part saga.

Furthermore, the ST outline was read by his biographer Dale Pollock in the mid 80's... I'm astounded no one mentioned that after you said that it ended with Jedi.

To provide even more evidence contradiction this notion that it ended with ROTJ... Hammil said Lucas wanted him to come back for him to play an Obi-Wan type role... however, it would have been done sooner (early 2000's). The original plan was for Lucas to spend 3-ish years on each film or so with breaks between each trilogy... the PT would have been completed by then.

I'm actually certain that the outline from the 80's was the one he reworked before submitting to Disney... because he had an outline for the PT in the 80's too, from what I heard about it correlates more or less with what we got 15 years later. Palpatine's story was there to a T. Lucas even mentioned that the films would have a sleek/ different look in comparison to the OT... this was a post ANH interview probably in '79 or '80.

As for X-XII... he probably had some idea of what that would be about... though if it exists somewhere it's probably very vague & not revised in the way that made Lucas's earlier work so strong. It took him 5 years to write ANH... probably a total of 9 years worth of writing for the OT.

The 80's outline was not vague... it was detailed enough to describe worlds & battles. Dale Pollock even said that they were very "exciting" & that he wanted to see those movies. If you've read or heard examples of Lucas's outlines, they are pretty substantial... usually comprised of many vignettes.

Before the OT took on the shape it did, you could actually see scenes that ended up in other films (the OT was originally supposed to be one film, but Lucas was made aware that it would be impossible to fit that story into one film). So for example, in the outline it would have said something like "low tech civilization goes to war with the Empire, similar to Vietnamn" (that idea pre-dated ANH but ended up in ROTJ)

Though there were things Lucas didn't know up until writing the script for the specific films... such as... Vader being Luke's father... Lucas came up with that very late in the writing process... Kasdan wasn't even aware of it after he had started his work for ESB.

The "other hope" wasn't figured out until writing for ROTJ. Funny thing... Hammil actually said he totally hated the idea and told George he thought it was lazy. Everyone, including Lucas, had hoped it would be a new character... but Lucas thought it would make the film too crowded by introducing another character. I do think it was a clever move on his part though, & I'm glad he did because it resulted in a great long term story for TFA.

But I guess what this shows more than anything is that the most important parts of the stories (emotionally) weren't there, though the events surrounding the characters seemed to have been mapped out more or less.

 

They made there money back last year.

 

I know the history of the drafts. I've read them all and the annotated scripts book. Lucas exaggerated the "one story broken up into three" thing. There were only a few ideas left over. I don't know that I buy what Pollock said either. I seriously doubt he would have had access to sequel material. He has apparently contradicted himself over what he actually saw.

 

Incorrect:

Interviewed in 2012 after the announcement of the new trilogy, Lucas biographer Dale Pollock said that he had, in the 1980s, read the outlines to 12 Star Wars episodes planned by Lucas, but had been required to sign a confidentiality agreement.[72] Pollock said:

• "The three most exciting stories were 7, 8 and 9. They had propulsive action, really interesting new worlds, new characters. I remember thinking, 'I want to see these 3 movies.'"
• The next series film would "involve Luke Skywalker in his 30s and 40s."
• Disney would probably use Lucas's outlines as the basis for the sequel trilogy. "That’s in part what Disney bought."[72]
  
  

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2015 ---

• Episode VII would begin roughly 20 (or perhaps 30–40) years after the end of Return of the Jedi (according to Lucas in 1980 and 1982).[46][63]
• R2-D2 and C-3PO would be the only characters who might continue through all nine films (Lucas in 1980, 1981 and 1983).[46][64][65]
• The trilogy would deal with the rebuilding of the Republic (Lucas in 1980).[66]
• "It's like a saga, the story of a group of people, a family" (Lucas in 1980).[46]
• The focus would be on Luke Skywalker's journey to becoming the premier Jedi knight, with Luke's sister (who was not Leia) appearing in Episode VIII, and the first appearance of the Emperor, and Luke's ultimate confrontation with him, in Episode IX (a storyline as planned pre-1980, according to A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back producer Gary Kurtz).[43][44][67]
• Luke would have a romantic relationship with a female love interest (Lucas in 1988).[68]
• The main theme of the trilogy would be moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned (Lucas in 1983 and 1989).[69][70]
• The key actors, Hamill as Luke Skywalker, Ford as Han Solo, and Fisher as Princess Leia, would appear, in their 60s or 70s (Lucas in 1983).[49][69]
• In Episode IX, Hamill would cameo, "like Obi-Wan handing the lightsaber down to the next new hope" (according to Hamill, in 2004).[2]
• "The other one — what happens to Luke afterward — is much more ethereal. I have a tiny notebook full of notes on that. If I’m really ambitious, I could proceed to figure out what would have happened to Luke" (Lucas in 1980).[71]
  
  I also found this on the wiki page linked here... Lucas seemed to have a lot worked out in the 80's. Again. The contradiction was made by Lucas:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sequel_trilogy
  

 

"not allowing Gary Kurtz to ruin the film by rushing Irvin Kershner".... HAHAHAHA RIGHTTTT. because Gary and Irvin's professional relationship NEVER gave us the greatest SW film of all time or anything like that. JJ shoulda brought Kurtz on board maybe hed have shut down Starkiller before it ever made it to concept art.

 

I was implicating Lucas there... not Kurtz & Kershner. What I was referring to; Lucas wanted the film to be shot very fast so as to avoid incurring extra costs... but Kershner wanted to ensure the takes he got were the best possible. Kurtz, at Lucas's request, wanted him to step in & prevent Kershner from taking creative liberties... but Kurtz enjoyed what Kershner was doing & Lucas was furious because the film went way over budget. This was ultimately the real reason for Kurtz's "resignation"... in reality Lucas fired him because he wanted them to rush it like ROTJ was.

Believe me... I would have loved for Kurtz to be involved in the ST. I was very surprised to see he worked on "the dark crystal" after Star Wars... even though the film itself is not the greatest... I could instantly recognize what about it was due to his involvement.

 

ahhhh 10 4. i wondered if i misread that. forgive me for my misplaced snark.

 

Haha np! I'm like 90 % snarky on these forums so I can't take it personally !

 

Would that be in 6, 9, or 12 slices?

 

Good Post! some days ago I watched backstage material from ESB and watched some interviews.
Many people forget about Gary Kurtz, they have only George Lucas in mind if they think about Star Wars.
So many creative people were involved in the making of Star Wars.
I guess if Gary Kurts would have been involved in the PT it would have helped enormously.
They should have considered a comeback of him for the ST, but the guy is old now and maybe doesn't want to be involved in Star Wars anymore.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2015 ---

Sad story and a really unnecessary ending.
I guess it was the beginning of George Lucas stubbornness.

 

Yeah I hadn't considered that... I think when the split happened he resettled in Europe & it sounded like perhaps he wanted a different pace of life. Heck, we all could have wished the same crew stuck around for 12 episodes... but even the beatles had to break up at some point!

I feel bad, I shouldn't be giving Lucas such a hard time. I mean he was still making great stories at the time, but yeah stubborn is a great way to put it. It's interesting... when writing ANH all he did was consult with others about his writing; his wife helped him, countless folks in the film industry gave their input when he asked. My theory is that post ANH he was on a high point and let it go to his head a bit, but I think that mixed with the stress he was under perhaps was the reason why he buckled down. It was really important for him to finance the skywalker ranch, his #1 goal... initially devised as a community for film makers to collaborate in the spirit of the 60's film scene/ rebellious nature of the up and coming directors in that era vs. the old "establishment". But it's cost was so great, many friendships taken.

I'm not sure if him & Copalla ever reconciled... at some point in the 80's Copalla found himself in serious debt & asked Lucas for a million or so dollars but Lucas refused. Though Sofia appeared in TPM so maybe they did?

 

In the REAL world, everything is a cash grab.

But people that has the fate of Star Wars in their hands are passionate about it.
I am just glad my kids and their kids will grow in a world where Star Wars still exists.

And good Star Wars, with real budget and passionate people.

It's a FRANCHISE. Star Wars INVENTED Franchises.

 

I'm sorry you feel this way about TFA, but I don't understand why you say that the story is complete with the initial 6 movies. Yes, Anakin's tale is complete but the last time I checked, the franchise was called Star Wars, not Anakin's Wars... The stories will never end and who actually cares if Disney or anyone else makes money out of it?

I have only two demands. Keep the quality standards high and don't milk it to a very bad level.

 

regardless of disney's acquisition of star wars, ANY new star wars films could be labeled as "cash grab". the film industry is purely and strictly a BUSINESS before it is anything else.. i think what disney has done thus far and what they plan to do is nothing short of incredible. all hail the mouse.

 

No money = no Star Wars.... Or direct to video Star Wars... Either way, that would be our worst nightmare, that with a spin-off Jar Jar Binks Anthology film

 

You're actually right, even in YOUR toy sales, and SW's main revenue has been merchandising since AT LEAST 1978 .

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 28, 2015 ---

Mo' money mo' Star Wars .

 

It's a shame you think this, but for me Star Wars has been brought back to life. I remember watching all 6 films and reading through a few of my favourite Dark Horse Comics and Novels and remembering "wow... this is it. There's not really anything else to see/read". Slowly my love for Star Wars just diminished.. Don't get me wrong, I've always loved Star Wars. Now, the Star Wars Universe has come back with vengeance! I love Rebels, I love the new Marvel Comics, I loved TFA, I loved the Rogue One trailer, and I love seeing all the new generation of Star Wars fans! TFA was the perfect film for a foundation of future Star Wars films. I truly believe that we'll properly appreciate it in the future.

At first I had my doubts about Disney buying Lucasfilm, but when I saw that first teaser trailer and seeing those X-Wings flying across that water.. I knew then Star Wars was in good hands. I'm still to be let down by the new Canon material.

This is a great time to be a Star Wars fan.

 

Of course more SW films should be made. But I can't help but think they should have left the Skywalker saga alone at 6 episodes and started their own saga. So far TFA has not convinced me.
Rogue One on the other hand...