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SPOILER Shroud of darkness review/discussion

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Rebels' started by alex, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    I am indeed a fan of the Nightbrothers they look cool and it doesn't make sense for the Banite Sith to have Sith tattoos because the Sith were in hiding.
     
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  2. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    They met with Ahsoka yet, they would have recognize each other.
     
  3. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Also, @Lord of the Rens the elite warriors and conquerers of the galaxy having tattoos seems silly to me, but a primitive tribe having tattoos makes sense. Darth Krayt's Sith looked silly with their tattoos.
     
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    Thanks for explaining.
    :)

    ***

    This eppy was all about Fear and while it was well done, I'm having mixed feelings about one of the three separate force visions... I most enjoyed Tano's. Perhaps my fondness for Matt Lanter's Anakin clouds my judgement, but I don't care.... "Do you know, what I have become?" -That, was absolutely spot-on, the way he almost growled as he said it. And her response? Swinging her saber as she turned made me think she was reacting in fear, so it was nice to see her turn and smile at Yoda as she left. Its ok to be afraid, just don't give in to it. Loved that.

    I liked that Ezra could see Yoda (even though I didn't care for the new Rebels' model) and I enjoyed their interaction....
    Especially, when Yoda fired up his emotional-lightsaber to illuminate the skeleton bones in his old Jedi closet. Hearing him admit his fear, humanizes the character in a way that "You must train yourself to let go of all that you fear to lose" could never do. Kudos, Rebel-team. Kudos.

    What baffles me is KJ and the Grand Inquisitor. I want to love their Matrix-inspired duel, but I can't. At least not yet. I want to say it was very cool, but seeing a dead Inquisitor manifest inside a Jedi Temple just doesn't feel right. It was weird knowing that was the G.I. before he took his mask off... they didn't mod the voice enough. Or maybe I was spoiled on that and just don't remember?lol But seriously, its not the GI that actually bothers me, its what he said... "By the Council, by the force..." -What the? I need to watch the eppy again, I think. A second viewing might soften/change my stance....

    This eppy left me wringing my hands while waiting for Maul and his showdown with Darth Vader.
    Even though it could spell the end for Maul, once and for all.
    (+1 for poetry)

    Better hang onto that feeling!:)
    According Pabs, there be no Sith in the Darthless Sequels.:eek:

    Or something.:p
     
    #44 Lord of the Rens, Mar 3, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
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  5. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Cheers all for cluing me in on the little wizard behind the curtain.

    It was nice to hear Yoda confirm what we all suspected - that the Jedi Order was arrogant. I think their strict pyramid-like hierarchy was a weakness to be exploited and made so many susceptible to manipulation from Darkness at once - like lemmings of a cliff.

    I wonder what ramifications Yoda's communication has. These places of power acting as conduits for a powerful FS individual to manipulate visions in others over vast distance is new to me.

    Does Yoda need a previous connection to both the temple and the individual for this connection to work? Would Yoda communicate with Vader too when he arrived? Can it work both ways? I guess not otherwise Vader would be straight off to Dagobah - what a duel that would be...
     
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  6. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    The thing I found most interesting was Dave mentioning that Ashoka and Anakin got together right before RotS and she went on an important mission.
    I really wish they would do some direct to DVD/Blu-Ray movies like WBros. does. Then a while after it's out put it on their channel.

    That's a perfect story to be a standalone animated movie.
    I really wish they would make a few for the time period between VI and VII as well as a KotOR trilogy.

    You're telling me they have a bigger budget to make Superman/Batman cartoons then Disney/Lucasfilm has for Star Wars? C'mon.


    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Just an FYI
    Lemmings don't commit mass suicide, Disney pushed them off a cliff
    http://factually.gizmodo.com/lemmings-dont-commit-mass-suicide-disney-pushed-them-o-1614038696

     
    #46 daffy72, Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
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  7. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Gatekeeper & Avatar Maker

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    I do like the Nightbrothers, btw, in the comics and on the TCW... I just think they should have left it to Sidious to apply the tats. The fact that all of the Zabraks have them, makes Maul's Sith affiliation obsolete. It would have been weird if Maul didn't have tats after stealing him from Dathomir before he had his Ichor bath.. So father Palpatine applies them in the same Sithly fashion as the comic, thus allowing him to be finally be seen in public. Or something. Actually, that would fit in with Maul's eagerness to reveal themselves to the Jedi after a thousand years... under the new continuity, tatted Zabraks aren't automatic Sith Lords.
     
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  8. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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  9. Hard Case

    Hard Case Porg Whisperer
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    I did not expect to see THIS today. Lol. Random. :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2016 ---
    So, I've been thinking about this episode a lot since I watched it. After a lot of contemplation, especially concerning the Henry Gilroy (co-executive producer) comment on Rebels Recon about the Force visions, this episode has fundamentally changed my perception of a pivotal scene in The Empire Strikes Back.

    Here's what he said:

    "Ultimately, the visions created in the temple are a means of communication for Yoda to instruct and teach these young Jedi. The vision of the Grand Inquisitor is entirely motivated by Yoda who's basically letting Kanan know that he is a Jedi Knight."


    I heard that, and I immediately thought that was really awesome how the writers showcased Yoda's immense power in the spiritual realm of the Force. Then, after I started applying the idea of Force communication in this way to the existing Star Wars saga, it changed my entire perception of the cave scene on Dagobah where Luke encounters the Darth Vader apparition.

    There has always been debate on what exactly caused this vision. From Legends material, it would seem that the cave is very strong in the Dark Side and the dark side spirit of Vader is a manifestation of it. However, I am now confident that canonically, Yoda induced this vision in Luke, to test him and to show him what he could become if he gives in to the dark side. He gave in to his anger in the cave, hence his "failure" as Yoda pointed out later.

    Looking back on it after the conclusion of the film, one realizes just how on point that vision was - not only alluding to his possible dark fate, but foreshadowing his familial connection to Vader. It makes sense in light of this that Yoda was actually motivating this Force vision to Luke, to warn him of the dangers of the dark side and to subtly reveal his connection to the Dark Lord.

    This would also explain why he tells Luke he doesn't need his weapons. He was in control the whole time. Perhaps if he would have listened to Yoda initially, he may have experienced an entirely different vision altogether.

    Following this train of thought, I leave you with a question...did Luke induce the vision that Rey had in Maz's castle? Hmm...the possibilities...
     
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  10. Empire Jo

    Empire Jo Force Sensitive

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    It's entirely possible, and that would suggest Luke has grown some in his knowledge/powers, catching up his Force skills to Master Yoda. You have to be pretty 'one with the Force' to sense the goings on so far away and to be able to guide the vision. I think perhaps there might be more to the Force vision thing than just a wise Master, perhaps a conduit, or a place or object imbued with the Force is also a nessecary factor for the vision to occur. A sacred place or object, if you will. The vision recipiant would most likely have to have a deep Force connection to be able to recieve the vision, and perhaps this Force connection deepens when under pressure or in life/death situations. This could help explain why the visions were experienced after sending Luke into the Dagobah cave, while our rebels forayed in the temple and after Rey touched the saber and not at other time/places. Yoda has also never met Ezra in the flesh, but established the connection with him after Ezra's first visit to the temple on Lothal and has really only been able to communicate with the other Force sensitives when they have been near Force imbued places/objects. When you think about it, Luke also had Anakins light saber with him when Ben and Yoda spoke to him the Force, noticably the Hoth cave shenanigans. Then after Luke looses the saber, you don't see him directly being guided by Obi-Wan or Yoda, and he only sees the Force ghosts when the Force is strong i.e at Dagobah and after the DS2.0 destruction when the Light tide is peaking. The annoying thing is, even if Luke did induce the vision, it still gives us no clues about any prior history or connection the two might have had.


    Also, I love how Rebels is getting a bit medieval, as when the GI temple guard does the Knighty thing with Kanan, and dubs him with the saber making him a knight. Makes me think it's foreshadowing the increase of Arthurian themes in Eps VIII and IX. I love medieval knighty, questy, crusadey stuff. Plus how tricksy are those Force temples!

    I have to say it's looking more and more likely Kanan and Ashoka will bite the dust at some point in Rebels. I still hold out hope for Ezra though. I think Yoda may have been trying to teach Ezra that there's more ways to win than just fighting and killing, and how you chose to win can be more important than the consequences of either winning or losing. It's sort of opening the door for Ezra to retreat from the fighting somewhere in the future, to do good/help in a nonviolent way in the background. I also think his withdrawel from the fighting front lines will eventuality have something to do with his strong Force ability to connect with non sentient life forms.

    Geez Rebs is getting good though!
     
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  11. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    I instantly made that correlation between the Dagobah cave and Yoda as well when they mentioned that BUT I never thought about Luke and Rey. Great observation!

    They also have this in common:
    They all occur in very old places. Maybe a force user needs to call on the psychic residue of a place to do this?

    - Palaptine causing the Dark Side Vision against Yoda at Morriban in TCW
    - Yoda guiding Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka in their visions on Lothal in the Jedi Temple
    - Luke and the cave on Dagobah (if you look carefully you can see some ruins in the cave there)
    - Rey's vision (by LUKE?) during TFA in Maz's ancient castle


    I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that showing the Inquisitor to Kanan was also a warning - "now you are what I was..." IMPLIED - Beware or you could suffer the same fate as me

    EDIT: lol. we typed the same thing at the same time Empire Jo ;)
     
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  12. daffy72

    daffy72 Force Sensitive

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    Anyone else hope they eventually tell the story of what happened to the Geonosians?

    I'm thinking either the Empire sterilized the queens* to cover up any evidence of the Death Star concept

    or maybe a plague of brain worms ;)


    *EDIT and after doing a little research that's apparently exactly what happened in the Darth Vader #4 comic
     
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  13. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    This lets me enjoy the episode more....but I wish it was clearer from the episode itself.

    I couldn't agree more. Except for the variable meaning of twilight. I've never heard that used to refer to anything good.

    I don't want to see Vader show emotion. I think Filoni himself said that ashoka can't be used as a start to a redeptive path, without undermining Luke's story.

    I agree that Kanan will die, but think Ezra will come back from darkness.

    I'm unsure of Yoda's thoughts. He tells Kanan to let go of things that are out of his hands, and to just do his best.....but this is the same Yoda that told Luke to let Han and Leia die, so that Luke could get more training. And then Luke's final trial is to go confront Vader. Yoda wanted Luke to take out Vader and Palpy.

    I didn't know what to make of it either. In case you haven't read all the post...go watch Rebels Recon. Yoda causes all the visions and thus Yoda knights Kanan.

    I agree. Instead of dumb lego crap give us some great direct to video star wars cartoons. Use the Rebels pipeline, but triple the budget, make an hour film and give it to us for $10. If it isn't a higher quality than the show, it would feel like that terrible clone wars movie.

    I think for A), your insights serve you well.

    I don't think so for B. Just because Yoda can cause a vision in a force temple, doesn't mean this is where all visions are from. Anakin has visions of possible futures and so does Luke.

    Based on nothing, my money is on Rey's vision being partially memory recall.
     
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  14. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I hope they do it sounds like a interesting story.
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sterilization_of_Geonosis
     
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  15. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Interesting posts for an interesting episode. Perhaps the time is ripe to look at some facts in order to start deducing some Force Laws from patterns around the canon Force visions we've seen so far? Seems more fun than tweeting poor Pablo! (Correct me if my facts are wrong.)

    LOP = Locations of Power eg Sith/Jedi Temples past and present.
    Force Object = Light sabre, Khyber crystal, temple remnants infused with Force energy/memory.

    Force Ghost appearances outside of LOP:
    - Always an appearance to someone who has previously met the apparition in flesh form.
    - Always a Force Object nearby.​

    Force visions outside of LOP:
    - Always a strong FS individual in altered state of mind (meditating, dreaming, semi-conscious).
    - Always a Force Object nearby.
    - Always a one-way Force connection (FS individual and living Force).​

    Force visions by FS learners (for lack of better term) within LOP:
    - Always involves personal trial to overcome.
    - Always a Force Object nearby.
    - Always (so far) a two-way Force connection (theory) - Vision guided/manipulated by FS individual with more knowledge.
    - Learner always has either met guide in flesh or been to LOP.
    Speculation:
    Is a Force Object circumstantial or necessary?
    Are these LOP visions always guided by a more knowledgeable Force user if available?
    Does the "guide" need to have physically been to the LOP previously in order to communicate with the learner?

    Yeah, like the much loved neo-Jedi combat technique I'll call "aggressive withdrawal" AKA self-imposed exile to backwater planet until young FS individual turns up! (I'm still hoping Ezra learns this technique so popular with Master Yoda, Obi-wan, Luke)
    I also think Pablo hinted in Rebels Recon that there's more to be explored about Geonosis in future SW stories.
     
    #55 Moral Hazard, Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2016
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  16. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    @Lord of the Rens Ironically, when I first saw TPM, I thought that Maul was a Sith Pureblood. He has red skin, yellow eyes, and a saberstaff like Exar Kun.
     
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  17. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    Revan, Revan, Revan, and for goodness sake, REVAN!!
     
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  18. Johnny

    Johnny Rebel General

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    I have to rewatch all the episodes with the Grand Inquisitor now. Everything he said has a new meaning now. In his first fight with Kanan he said the Jedi records are quit e extensive meaning he figured out his fighting style from them. He was a temple guard so he might have known that info as part of his job and might have even known Master Bilaba. The CW episodes with Ashoka being framed showed us the Temple guards also worked as a Jedi version of military police.
     
    #58 Johnny, Mar 5, 2016
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  19. Empire Jo

    Empire Jo Force Sensitive

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    You know, I thought of one potential bug bear with this theory, much to my displeasure. Rey sees as a part of her saber vision a glimpse of the future, notably the Kylo confrontation. This doesn't nessecarily blow the theory out of the water. But, did any of the other visions in SW have true foretellings of events that came to pass? Does this suggest that the Force granted her the vision, or did perhaps Luke glimpse the future and incorporate that into guiding Rey's vision maybe? Or maybe Luke could have provided the catalyst for the vision, but still let the Force show what it will? Actually, this theory makes you have to wonder if Luke not only felt 'the awakening', but had more of an active role in catalyzing or prompting the awakening, so to speak.

    Anyways, how do you guys think Yoda knew about the GI's former history as a temple guard to incorporate it into Kanan's vision? This could give us a clue as to how self directed the visions are, even though they may be being guided by a Force boffin like Yoda, or Luke. Could even have something to do with the Force imbued place or object maybe.
     
  20. Johnny

    Johnny Rebel General

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    I don't think the fact Yoda guided that force vision mean Luke guided Rey's. Ezra had a vision of the traitor senator nobody guided that vision.
     
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