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SPECULATION Snoke’s Real Identity (Poll)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Colonel_Ender, Oct 27, 2017.

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Snoke’s True Identity

Poll closed Dec 18, 2017.
  1. Darth Plagueis

    27.5%
  2. Darth Sidious (Aka Sheev Palpatine or The Emperor)

    1.0%
  3. Vader

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Luke

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Ezra

    1.0%
  6. JarJar

    1.0%
  7. Mace Windu

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Herobrine

    1.0%
  9. Donald Trump

    8.8%
  10. Other

    59.8%
  1. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    With The Last Jedi marketing in mind, in retrospect, I think this "Your Snoke Theory Sucks" bit was humorous but probably unnecessary...



    ...if Snoke continues (in IX) to remain undefined and considered or treated as "unimportant" to Sequel Trilogy events after The Last Jedi.

    Speculation is fun, and we're generally encouraged to do it, but I can certainly understand why some fans, coming away from their first TLJ viewing, might have felt disappointed to discover Snoke was not more thoroughly *"fleshed out" as a villain.

    (*And, yes, that is a bad Snoke pun :p)
     
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  2. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Now we Know Snoke had a ring made by Dwartii which is mentioned only one time in entire Star Wars Lore.

    In the Book Darth Plagueis.

    In the film Snoke wileds with this hand with that Ring on it, and this appears the presence of this ring(black kyber embedded in the ring) amplifies his powers.
     
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  3. Darth Klaugott

    Darth Klaugott Rebelscum

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    Sorry if it has been posted before, but I find it very convincing of the fact that Snoke was supposed to be Plagueis by JJ.

     
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  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I agree with a lot of what that video says (such as how completely disconnected the overall storyline from E7 to E8 is) but I do not agree with the final conclusion. By the narrator's own admission, Ridley does not have a thorough grasp of Star Wars lore. So having her blurt out "Is that Sn-----...?" doesn't demonstrate anything to me. I doubt she has the first clue what the guy asking the question meant or who Darth Plagueis even is.

    However, the video does make some good points and, as I mentioned, I certainly agree with their statements on how disjointed the whole thing is.
     
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  5. Darth_Mu

    Darth_Mu Rebelscum

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    I don't think it's Plagueis simply because Plagueis is supposed to be more powerful than Palpatine. When Palpatine died, there was dark side Energy. When Snoke died, there was nothing.
    I think Snoke as we know it in TLJ may be an avatar for Abeloth.
    Han may have known a bit because he said to Kylo after your usefulness ends, he'll crush you. If someone could crush someone like Kylo, it can't be as simple as a single lightsaber strike. Kylo could have done it whenever he wanted. He, as well as Han, knew there were more to Snoke than a simple body.
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Just gonna throw this out there-

    If Snoke was Plagueis, does he necessarily have to not be now? I mean, let alone the fact that it would be easy enough to retroactively make that so again, I don't really see Snoke's death as an obstacle that Plagueis can't overcome- after all, wasn't that a big part of the Snoke theory pre-TLJ anyway, his power over life?

    If Snoke was to return, him being Plagueis would be one way to do it, obviously.
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Snoke hasn't been going by the name of Plagueis by a long time. He cheated death once, he might do so again. But I think he's seriously split on whether to return or not.
     
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  8. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    Personally i don't think a definitive answer to this question exists, even at Lucas film.
     
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  9. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Rest assured my friend. Rumor has it that "there are many copies..."

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    the ironic thing about that is writers of Battlestar defiantly didn't have plan when they started writing the series ... just like Disney.

    Lets hope this trilogy ends stronger then Battlestar did!
     
  11. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    Abeloth would be such a weird character to suddenly throw into the mix!

    i guess one could say that retrospectively about Snoke too, but... Abeloth isn't even a thing in the movies; there would be no connectivity. even Plagueis is tenuous as best.
     
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  12. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Well they did have a structural framework for the metanarrative. They are going to reach earth, there are many obstacles and Starbuck is going to get them there.....and Bear McGreary is going to smash his taiko drumps and we'll be pumped. :p But I agree that the last big episode finale of BSG was a bit of a disappointment, but still enjoyable nonetheless.
    ---


    From what I understand from the Concept Art to the Last Jedi is that they know quite well where Rey, Kylo and Finn's stories are supposed to be heading. They are also quite consistent in the themes and 'hero journey' stuff they created.

    But the confusion begins especially with the question "what to do with Luke". They followed Lucas' intention of making him a depressed recluse on a remote planet with an old abandoned Jedi temple and that he is hesitant to train the girl from the junkplanet. But perhaps, due to spoilers, we hardly know what Lucas had further intended for Luke. We have to wait until IX to see what they'll do. It becomes quite clear from all the 'making off' and 'behind the scenes stuff' that Luke has always been a puzzle, especially in the proces of writing VII. Because everything that happens with Luke in VIII was intended for VII.
     
  13. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    the creators have said they only really new where they were going after season 2.

    totally disagree, i don't think they had any real plan were they want the trilodgy to end, i think they have just gone abrams make a film, johnson make a film now Abrams make another film, simlar to battlestar when it started it had no idea who was cylon who was not, what was going on with the baltars visions of number 6, what they would find at earth, and it lead to a messy few final seasons where they tried to make it vaguely make sense, from everything that has come out about this trilogy, it seems like they have done exactly the same as Lost and battle star did set out create a load of characters and mysteries then try and figure it out what it all meant later.
     
  15. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    But they have said time and time again that they have a general plot outline, but allow the writers and directors to change and alter stuff if they want to. It is their story. The concept art book to TLJ in conjunction with TFA's gives us quite a good indication of how the story and to where the story is progressing. Still within those broad plotpoints and character micro narratives they have established beforehand, they have allowed RJ to do his own thing.

    I'm really interested to know if you can pinpoint some story and structural elements in TLJ which according to you should be considered a deviation from the narrative structure devised by Rick Carter, Arndt, Abrams, Kennedy and the storygroup in 2012 and the final screen version of the Force Awakens?
     
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  16. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    where have they said they have a general plot?
    i mean everything thats come out was that johnson was left alone to write his film, to make any decisons he wants, by all accounts killing snoke was Johnsons decision. Johnson has said that Reys parents are currently know one, but that could change, you said your self they wernt sure what to do about Luke,

    it doesn't sound like they have much of an idea of where they where going when they started. possibly a genreal Theme like you said a heroes journey, but when it comes to actual plot seems to be completely up in the air from film to film.
     
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  17. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    Based on what Johnson said before TLJ came out I'm pretty sure this is accurate. They might have a general idea of where they want to end up but there's no definite point B on this journey. Rian has talked about how much he worked with the storygroup in creating his film but still they weren't trying to guide him to a certain endpoint, they were just trying to make sure nothing he created contradicted what came before.
     
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  18. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Yes, they established the general themes and plot trajectories of the main characters. In the latter case nothing too detailed though. This is especially the case with Rey and Kylo. There is truth in what you're saying, so perhaps it more like this:

    They know how the story is supposed to start and they know where the characters should end up and what sort of obstacles should be put in their way. They know what the important emotional and psychological themes are in connection to those main characters. Perhaps it is the middle substance which allows for more room to play with the narrative a bit.

    As for Snoke: we don't know what his original purpose of Snoke was simply because they don't tell us. As for Rey's parents, it is to some extent, like Vader's reveal in ESB, still unresolved. We only knew for sure that Vader was speaking the truth when Yoda confirmed it in ROTJ. Something similar might be going on with Rey. For RJ, the aknowledgement of Rey's parents being nobodies was the worst thing that Rey could hear at that particular moment. But he also indicated that it was a truth relevant to that particular but not necessarily the truth. Furthermore, Rey did continuously say throughout The Force Awakens that she is no one and I'm just a scavenger. So still, her being a nobody born from nobodies is actually still in line with what has been set up in TFA.

    So I think the discussion about whether they planned something or not is caused by the fact that they only planned ahead for their main characters, the protagonist and antagonist and to a certain extent Luke (depressed Luke in exile at an old Jedi temple being reluctant to train the force sensitive girl from the Junkyard world. because of previous trauma was one of the trajectories set out by Lucas). The rest might be all be pure improvisation. But then on the other hand, we simply don't really know what was improvised or not, which will become especially difficult to establish because the person who introduced us to these characters is writing their narrative conclusion. Abrams knows why and how his characters were set up the way he did which means he also knows where they were heading (or pretend to have always known it when he concludes everything ;) :p)
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2018 ---
    Yeah, perhaps it is more like. We have point A and C. RJ fill in point B please which means, don't kill Rey and Kylo and definitely don't do anything which will cause the writer of C a narrative conundrum. The second act is always the part of the story that allows for the most narrative freedom. Remember how Lucas had no clue whatsoever what to do exactly with ESB and AOTC?
     
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  19. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    I'm saying there probably was not a point C in the plot when RJ was writing TLJ. I may be proven wrong in the future but for now that is my current read of the situation. The storygroup was there to make sure things like Rey and Kylo's death didn't happen.
     
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  20. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    Abrams also did lost were litreally he just did stuff and never bothered working out how any of it fit togther, so i don't think its a stretch to think he might have done somthing slightly simlar with Star Wars, espically when you conisder at first Poe was meant to die then they decided to keep him alive becuase Oscar Iassac didn't want to die again so he didnt really have a long term plan, plus when you consider all the stuff that has come out since, that Johnson had free reign of the story, who Reys parents are could change massively her arc, its seems that Johnson decided to kill Snoke becuase he thought it would be interesting to have Kylo be given the keys to the castle as it where, that massivly has effected his story Arc. Luke was standing on a hill in jedi robes and then suddenly goes of an gets changed into blacks so it seems that Johnson and Abrams vision of Luke was different.

    The more i read from everyone involved i think Abrams and co just went we want to make it feel like star wars again so we will have A hero from a desert Planet with force powers, a masked vilian with a family issues, A villain who looks like the emperor, star destroys tie fighters and X Wings. SO he did that and set up lost of intrigue for the director that followed him, incase he chose to pick it. Johnson came along and went well wouldn't it be interesting if we saw The emperor like figure die and Kylo become the main villian so he did that.

    I get what your saying about themes,(the themes of this trilogy have probably been the best part about it especially in the Last Jedi, something which i have grown to appreciate more after an earlier conversation with your self, i may think the plot of the film is a mess but the themes are great! so that you for that!) and obstacles but any atucal plot set out before the start of 7 seems to be very vague, maybe a few ow we could do this if we wanted, but honestly i think thats about it.

    I mean we will never know, but everything that has come out lends my opnion to be this, maybe im wrong and the 3rd film will tie all this together in a lovely bow, but for me im worried where gonna get a Battlestar and lost style ending rather then say a Babyon 5 or Harry Potter.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2018 ---
    well lucas always had very little clue to do with any of them, i mean read the making off books and how little planning their was for over all story, its amazing we dint get more awkward things like Leia kissing Luke.
    I do remember that Lucas did have a vague plan for attack of the clones though, he talked about it been an epic love story that everyone who likes star wars will hate lol.
    I guess the difference between the Orginal trilogy an this one is that Lucas didn't know he was gonna be able to make a trilogy when he first made what is now A New Hope, Disney did know it was doing a trilogy so you'd think they would have planned a bit more. But hey i guess the original trilogy turned out pretty dam good so their is hope.
     
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