1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Snoke age confirmed by Andy Serkis

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by StarWarsGaming, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Imbrie

    Imbrie Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    245
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    4,022
    Credits:
    968
    Ratings:
    +523 / 23 / -6
    Succinctly and brilliantly put and should be posted in response each and every time somebody posts along the lines of "we didn't get any backstory on the Emperor" or "Snoke is not important to the story of the ST".

    I understand totally RJ's use of Snoke in TLJ but it ultimately undermines his set up in TFA and leaves a gaping crevice between that movie and RotJ, like it or not.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 9, 2018 ---
    And ....?
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 9, 2018 ---

    I saw the OT in the cinema when they were originally released and, to me, the Emperor was simply the big bad guy who ruled the galaxy in a most unfriendly way and who, as it turned out, Vader was subordinate to. Had he been eliminated near the beginning of RotJ this might have been a differet proposition to consider but we certainly saw a lot more of him in RotJ, certainly enough to sate my curiosity.

    Unfortunately, when you get to the eighth instalment of a story, with the sixth and seventh obviously having played out, there is a certain amount of storytelling that is required that we simply haven't been given. Some blame can be placed upon JJ's shoulders, sure, but RJ really disregarded this element in his attempt to 'subvert' expectations and, essentially, make a great looking but, frankly, hollow entry to a once great story.
     
    #21 Imbrie, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    • Like Like x 8
  2. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    13,559
    Trophy Points:
    145,117
    Credits:
    10,825
    Ratings:
    +15,189 / 29 / -4
    Love Serkis, but he also said that Snoke was more powerful than Palpatine, so I'm not sure his word is canon.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  3. Imbrie

    Imbrie Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    245
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    4,022
    Credits:
    968
    Ratings:
    +523 / 23 / -6
    He did say that, didn't he? Well, Kylo is virtually unstoppable. Were it not for Rey, who is the most powerful thing ever in the GFFA. Ever.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Posts:
    146
    Likes Received:
    235
    Trophy Points:
    3,132
    Credits:
    684
    Ratings:
    +381 / 34 / -4
    what do you know 200 years puts him right in the ballpark to be Plagueis. more or less spot-on, actually.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  5. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    302
    Likes Received:
    864
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    2,392
    Ratings:
    +1,148 / 14 / -3
    Me too fella. I'm no writer, never claimed I could write a better story... the granny comment was a joke designed to put across my disappointment with the "professional" writers of the ST. ;)
     
  6. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Posts:
    237
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    7,367
    Credits:
    926
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 6 / -5
    Ce n'est pas français. C'est l'anglais Corellienne.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  7. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Posts:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    3,885
    Trophy Points:
    13,167
    Credits:
    3,220
    Ratings:
    +5,334 / 11 / -6

    It's not French. It's Corellian English.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  8. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2018
    Posts:
    237
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Trophy Points:
    7,367
    Credits:
    926
    Ratings:
    +2,016 / 6 / -5
    He speaks!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Wayward Jedi

    Wayward Jedi Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Posts:
    70
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    1,172
    Credits:
    587
    Ratings:
    +304 / 0 / -1
    This is the same exact thing... Instead of in the middle, we're at the end. If there's a backstory, they will tell it.
    This is literally the same thing as the situation with Snoke lol. The story hasn't been told, so why are people complaining?

    The issue, to me, seems to be headcanons being busted by TLJ which generated an angry response. Said angry response is cloaked in the argument that "because we are at the end of the story, we needed backstory on this character who was not portrayed to be the main character at any point in the saga/TFA."

    You can't say, "The Emperor is fine because the story was there it just hasn't been told yet," and then fail to see how there's no difference between that scenario and Snoke. It doesn't matter if it's the middle of the story or the end of the story, or even the beginning of the story. All of these scenarios omit backstory (which one can argue isn't important in any story) in favor of the here and now/character development. We didn't get Palpatine's backstory prior to The Phantom Menace. We didn't find out why he became a Sith Lord, who trained him, how he managed to go undetected by the Jedi even though being a resident of Naboo (a world in the Republic), etc. So the argument that "The PT gave us a backstory" doesn't work either. All it did was move the backstory goalposts further back and opened up an entirely new set of questions. And Palpatine in the PT plays the same exact role as the Emperor/Snoke. He's someone there to take advantage of/goad the main hero into making the wrong choices, but ultimately most of the responsibility still falls on the main hero.

    Like RJ said, a story is not a wikipedia page. The films aren't designed to satiate lore cravings.

    Nothing compelling would be added to the story for 5 minutes to be dedicated to Snoke explaining where he comes from. Even if he said he once went by the name of Plagueis, nothing compelling gets added to the story. All that does is open up more questions, which apparently is the same thing that has happened without revealing his backstory. The only difference is, if he said he's Plagueis, a few tens of thousands of lore fanatics on the internet rejoice at having known something that the casuals didn't, while the vast majority of the people who watch the film have to scratch their heads and go, "I think I remember that name, guess I better go rewatch ROTS," only to find out the only thing related to that reveal is a short story told by Palpatine to tempt Anakin to the dark side.

    If Snoke had said he was Plagueis, we know nothing about him aside from the little detail that he was once Palpatine's master. And that enhances the story... how? All the other questions are still there. How did he survive? How did he meet Palpatine? What was his plan? Did he even have a plan? And all those questions would still have to be answered outside of the film.

    There are more important things for the film to cover than answering endless backstory questions. TLJ did that with the Luke-Kylo stuff, I suspect IX will do a bit more with why Leia sent Ben to Luke in the first place and that probably involves Snoke's meddling in some form.

    And don't even get me started on how LF peeps told us over and over again that "Snoke is just Snoke, a new character," yet people went on clinging to some sort of expectation for something more anyways. IIRC Pablo said something to the effect of, "Snoke is just Snoke, let new characters be new characters."
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  10. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2015
    Posts:
    16,791
    Likes Received:
    15,172
    Trophy Points:
    149,777
    Credits:
    20,089
    Ratings:
    +26,521 / 845 / -253
    Rian apparently threw out JJ's script and stuff so yeah, Andy could be totally wrong
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    302
    Likes Received:
    864
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    2,392
    Ratings:
    +1,148 / 14 / -3
    If there is no difference between The Emperor, introduced in EP 5, built upon in EP 6, (before the prequels), then really fleshed out in 1 thru 3. Which episodes prior to 7 are they gonna fill us in with regard to Snoke and The First Order?

    If you can't see the difference between starting a story in the middle and introducing massively important characters without any story but having the luxury of 3 episodes yet to be made, and introducing a massively important character towards the end of a story without the luxury of any prior episodes to be made, then I am at a loss.

    Palpatine prior to TPM is not important to the overall story of 1 thru 6. What is important, is there is a darksider in a power of authority who is moving up the chain and creating the Empire we first witnessed in IV and morphing into The Emperor that we first see in V. Palpatines successor who suddenly pops up in TFA (I can't call it 7) is important to the overall story, and the fact that he does suddenly pop up with a new Empire is jarring.
    (FWIW it is addressed that Palpatine keeps himself hidden by the way - Yoda mentions the dark side is clouding everything, Mace mentions something about their ability to use the force is diminished, Obi says the dark side surrounds the chancellor - he uses the darkside, the details here are irrelevant)

    And don't get me started on LFL/KK/RJ/JJ saying he is not important and is just used to further Kylo and Rey. The guy responsible for resurrecting The Empire in a different name is not important? The guy who is massively powerful in the Force and responsible for turning Ben Skywalker to the darkside is not important? No, not important at all... LMAO.
    Maybe within the confines of the new Disney story he isn't important, but if this is truly a continuation of episodes 1 thru 6 then he is very important to the overall story. Unless of course, the ST isn't really a continuation and it is just a tacked on, badly written, OT mimic cashgrab?

    And I haven't once mentioned Plagueis, don't know why you're so hung up on that one.

    Oh and more important things for the film to cover? Like Green milk drinking? Super Leia? Topless Ren? Chewie and the porgs? Making Hux look like a fool? The list goes on...
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  12. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    302
    Likes Received:
    864
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    2,392
    Ratings:
    +1,148 / 14 / -3
    Additional but for some reason the edit function isn't there???

    I have just noticed I'm really going off topic. Sorry about that peoples.

    So on topic: Cool, Snoke may be 200 years old... We'll never learn that (or anything else either) about Snoke in the ST though.

    Peace out SW buds.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Cool Cool x 1
  13. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    5,768
    Trophy Points:
    15,317
    Credits:
    5,774
    Ratings:
    +8,683 / 34 / -9
    Technically off topic, but just thought I'd put this here.

    The more I think about it, the more I think I’d rather the FO’s Supreme Leader not be a force user. Maybe Rae Sloane or Brendol Hux or even Thrawn. If it wasn’t going to ultimately matter who or what Snoke is, then why bother with him at all? Ben could have fallen to the darkside all on his own. Kylo and Rey could have formed that connection all on their own. The leader of this Empire 2.0 didn’t need to be an Emperor 2.0. A fascist political figurehead would have been just as effective for me. Eh, for whatever it’s worth - probably not much.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Posts:
    3,384
    Likes Received:
    15,617
    Trophy Points:
    144,707
    Credits:
    15,298
    Ratings:
    +20,517 / 72 / -32
    I very much like that idea. Ben will sooner or later turn to the light, so why not make the whole Episode IX his redemption arc, during which he has to prove his worth by fighting Hux-led First Order? Episode VIII proved that you can shake up the SW status quo pretty successfully, why not shake it a little bit more? If it doesn't happen - fine, but it's definitely a neat idea to consider.
     
    #34 Pawek_13, Mar 12, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Jessica

    Jessica Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Posts:
    62
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Credits:
    686
    Ratings:
    +280 / 30 / -7
    it said nothing of the kind. It was a standalone film. Most of the stuff we take for granted was added much later.

    I can't believe people are still whining like 8 year old girls because TLJ didn't match the fan fiction in their heads.

    get over it.
     
    • Rude Rude x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  16. Imbrie

    Imbrie Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Posts:
    245
    Likes Received:
    306
    Trophy Points:
    4,022
    Credits:
    968
    Ratings:
    +523 / 23 / -6

    It's the absence of sufficient provision of information that is the problem.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Jessica

    Jessica Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Posts:
    62
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    912
    Credits:
    686
    Ratings:
    +280 / 30 / -7
    It's a movie. Not a documentary
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    5,768
    Trophy Points:
    15,317
    Credits:
    5,774
    Ratings:
    +8,683 / 34 / -9
    The issue, I think, most people have with Snoke is similar to the issue a good number have with Rey’s expedited progress: precedence. The prequels provided more than a backstory for the Emperor, they leveraged him as a focal point to broaden darkside lore. He wasn’t simply some force user who’d aligned himself with the darkside. He was now a member of an ancient cultist cabal. He was the sole inheritor of exclusive practices and techniques only imparted to one disciple at a time.

    This reinforced an essential dynamic in the six movie saga: master and apprentice. You don’t have one without the other. Each force user we were introduced to was shown, or implied, to have had a master who taught them their skills. ROTJ ended Lucas’s saga on a note of resolution. There are only ever two Sith at a time and they were both eliminated at the same time. So, there should be no more Sith then. While Snoke has been confirmed to not be a Sith, he has been presented to us as a darkside force user who utilizes the same skills as a Sith.

    So, as we’ve been conditioned, the fans naturally assumed some sort of connection would be made there. How did this darkside force user get to where he is without any perceived guidance from any other darksider? Did he just figure it out like Rey? Is he part of some other darkside order? With his death in the series, it’s implied we won’t be getting a cinematic answer. So this character now becomes something of an anomaly that won’t be explained and that’s incredibly confounding to those who care. I don’t know. That’s where I personally think a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from. I'm probably wrong.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  19. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    302
    Likes Received:
    864
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    2,392
    Ratings:
    +1,148 / 14 / -3
    I suggest you read entire posts before you cherry pick an out of context quote. Episode 4 was added in 1981. Episode 5 was on the 2nd film from 1980. Like it or not, it is (supposed to be) one overarching story.

    If you actually read my post(s) in this conversation you will have seen that I stated it just said Star Wars when it was first released, and was made to be a stand alone story as they didn't know if it would be successful.
    But 40 years later it is not 1981, and as of now, it is an episodic story. Doesn't seem like it to me anymore, hell, they don't even market this new trilogy as numbered episodes.

    All of that information was in the same post or the next one I made in the conversation - point is I already said exactly what you have. (But you ignored that to try and be snarky and a bit clever - How'd that work out for ya? HAHA).

    And what is this fan fiction you speak of? Or are you just projecting onto me?

    You do realise that your post comes off like you actually are a whining 8 year old. (FYI: It's not only girls that whine).
     
    #39 StoneRiver, Mar 13, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Wayward Jedi

    Wayward Jedi Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Posts:
    70
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    1,172
    Credits:
    587
    Ratings:
    +304 / 0 / -1
    All of Palpatine's backstory prior to TPM is omitted. All the PT did was give us a more in-depth look at how he manipulated Anakin into becoming Darth Vader, while opening up even more questions about Palpatine's backstory regarding his master.

    Snoke was never made out to be massively important. That is largely a fan-narrative.

    This was not a centerpiece of the ST story. They were not obligated to show us how the FO began. They summed it up in the opening crawl.

    Snoke isn't the guy solely responsible for resurrecting the FO, he just ended up becoming the leader.

    The importance is in the fact he helped pull Ben to the DS. That's all there is to it. You're still cloaking a desire for lore-knowledge with an argument that this lore-knowledge would add something compelling to a feature-length film. Which it would not.

    But what metric? TFA never set him up as being more important than helping pull Ben to the DS. He is never portrayed as playing a role in the previous episodes. His character's importance begins in Episode 7.
     
Loading...

Share This Page