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Snoke, Aliens, and Hypocrisy in a Galaxy Far, Far Away...

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Vader_the_White, May 7, 2016.

  1. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    One thing I keep seeing in various discussions about Snoke is if he is an alien or not. And on thing people keep asking is why is an alien in charge of a prejudiced society opposed to aliens.
    Well, I have some basic theories, ideas, and some points to make on this very topic. Let's begin:

    1) Hypocrisy
    Many prejudiced groups and organizations can be incredibly hypocritical. Like, really hypocritical. I mean, the Empire had many high ranking aliens. Even the Grand Vizier wasn't human (Mas Amedda). None of the Inquisitors that we've seen are human (Pau'an, Mirialan, unknown species, and a Terrelian Jango Jumper so far). It's not out of the range of possibility.

    2) Who said the First Order is like that?
    Seriously, who? As far as we know, they might have needed to rely on non-humans and lessened the affects of such prejudice.

    3) Snoke being non-human might not be common knowledge.
    We only know two characters who've seen Snoke personally: Kylo and Hux. It isn't impossible that most within the First Order don't even know what he looks like.

    I personally think it might be a combination of points 1 and 3.

    Any other ideas on how a non-human (if Snoke is indeed non-human literally, not figuratively) could have taken the reins of the First Order?
     
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  2. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Snoke is not an alien....at least not a funny looking one...he is most probably a humanoid....just disfigured because of a trauma....
    and FO is kinda nazistic organization so it makes sense they would shun alliens
    If they are, then they are not hypocrites but true to what they believe? However wrong it may be....
    Hmmmm....complicated, this is...
     
  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I think it's very likely only a few people know that Snoke is actually an alien.
    We already know that Snoke has no permanent base, he prefers contacting people from his mobile command post. Due to this fact, we can assume that the most First Order members haven't seen him yet.

    But we don't really know if the First Order is still racist like the Empire once was. We simply don't know if they have any other non-humans in their ranks. The Stormtroopers wear helmets that we never see them remove.
    I hope Cpt. Phasma turns out to be not-human.
     
    #3 NinjaRen, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  4. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Only alien ever introduced into Imperial military command are those in Expanded universe. Most notable is Thrawn. However even Thrawn was a member of race that were descendands of humans, and could be considered more advanced human race (bluish skin) with all other anatomic features same as main human tree. Not Canon.

    In all the films and Canon material so far Imperial command is entirely human, including episode VII.

    If Disney/Lucasarts wanted to change that,or at least give a glimpse of that change, they will do it by now.

    Original trilogy.
    [​IMG]

    The Force awakens.
    [​IMG]

    Rogue One.
    [​IMG]
     
    #4 McDiarmid, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    Not all Imperial personnel is human, check out the aliens (there are at least two of them) in Mos Eisley with their red and obvious Imperial uniforms.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    I don't think the Empire being prejudice against aliens was ever stated in canon (six movies), only the EU. Along with above, Palpatine had Mas Amedda and Sly Moore as aides too.
     
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  7. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Have you ever analized the fact that the concept of the Empire being a prejudiced society opposed to aliens is not really true and that this is simply something that we have come to believe because of the EU and by some things we see in the movies?

    When we first saw the Empire in the movies, we saw that it was a group that was entirely human and this gave credit to the theory yet as SW has been fleshed out, the anti-alien theory no longer applies. The main reason behind this is Palpatine having Maul as his apprentice. We all know that when a Sith Lord takes an aprentice, he does so knowing that the possibility exists that his aprentice may one day take him down and become the master. The Sith Lord knows that everything he has will become the property of the apprentice and it is he who will continue with all the grand plans and schemes and they had both shared in the past.

    Had Sidious been the one who had been killed, Darth Maul would be the sole ruler of the Empire and Sheev knew this. Now, why on Earth or Naboo or any other planet would Sheev take a hated alien as an aprentice if he knew that said alien could end up being the one who ruled the Sith? That makes no sense.

    Another thing we must consider is the fact of how the Empire began. When Palps was on the rise, he had aliens all around him to the point that even his most trusted advisors were non-human. Said aliens knew about his identity as a Sith Lord and they carried out his wishes. Know, when Sheev get's the Clone Army, they are all cloned as humans. Every armor, every piece of equipment, every ship is equipped for humans. Every Clone that rised in the ranks was human and when we look at this we have to think, is it easier to continue using what we have or should we waste massive funds creating armor, gear, weapons and ships that are for aliens to use? The Empire was to instill fear in their enemies yet imagine how ridiculous it would be to see Ithorian, Ewok, Hutt or Amanin Stormtroopers? There were thousands of alien races in the senate so imagine the high cost of trying to make armor for each and every type of creature that decided to side with Palpatine. Why do this if they already have everything they need based on the human design?

    Then we see how the Empire has no qualms dealing with aliens that work for them such as Garindan and both Palpatine and Vader didn't think twice to use the service of alien Bounty Hunters. Aliens designed the Death Star, aliens made the Clone Army and an alien was the apprentice to Sidious. This makes no sense if we try to see Sidious as hating aliens. Sure, many can say he only used them for his needs without a care but having Darth Maul as his apprentice and knowing that he could even be his successor throws this theory out the window.
     
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  8. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I think its possible for Sidious and Vader not to have any bigotry but for their dictatorship to be founded on principals of xenophobia. The sort of angry ignorant base that would keep Palpatine in power as he kept removing liberties and seizing more and more power until the final blow of the senate's disbandment in ANH, very well may have been one kept in line by fear. Sewing discord among the more dominant humanoid planets and the non humanoid planets very well could have played to his advantage. History is full of dictators using "fear of the other" in order to enhance their power. Sidious was political enough and power hungry enough to play up those sort of Machiavellian games to win over those ignorant enough to support the removal of their own liberties while simultaneously working with and trusting those same "others" as advisers in order to maximize his power.
     
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  9. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    You both make excellent, valid points. I do have to point a few things out with your post, Amanaman:
    1) The final execution of Palpatine's plan didn't have Maul as his apprentice. He had Dooku with plans of replacing him with Anakin, both human. So keeping prejudice out of his Empire was less important than it would have been if Maul hadn't been seemingly killed on Naboo.
    2) Just because Palpatine and Vader aren't prejudiced against non-humans, doesn't mean that the rest of the Empire isn't.
    3) Like Rebo said, there is a strong possibility that Palpatine used prejudice to help keep the population in check. And there might be evidence to this with the fact that the Separatist Council was full of non-human members. Of course, this could be countered with the fact it could have just been Core vs Rim prejudice, with the Core just having a larger human population than the Rim.
    But at the same time, there is evidence that it may not be prejudice. For instance, all the Inquistors we've seen have been non-human. Even the post of Grand Visier, the second highest official position in the Empire, was held by Mas Amedda, a Chagrian, throughout the existence of the Empire. Also, there is no evidence that there weren't some types of non-humans in Stormtrooper armor. There could be a few Zabrak troopers (their horns shaved down is a possiblity) or Mirialan troopers, just as their could be female troopers during the time of the Empire (there were, at least one trooper in Empire was played by a stuntwoman). We are limited in our field of view. And we can still be clouded by the Legends continuity when even minor technical details don't always stand up*.
    Like I said, both of you have valid points.

    *Rebels has shown two examples of this:
    1) In Legends, if something, let's say an escape pod, jettisons in hyperspace, unless it has a hyperdrive, it will be stuck in hyperspace. In Rebels, we see the Phantom leave the Ghost and (since it didn't have a hyperdrive at the time) it just (dangerously) exited hyperspace.
    2) In Legends, Imperial-era TIE Fighters did not have a built-in life support systems. Thus why they had sealed masks. In Rebels, we see multiple times that this isn't the case. Okay, we also see that in The Force Awakens, but that's a different time period, so it doesn't count.
     
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