Snoke and the balance of the Force

Idk I see balance, Luke = extremely powerful Light side user and Snoke = extremely powerful Dark side user.

 

I guess it depends on how balance is defined within the Force in the SW universe, and what Snokes been up to over the years. One definition of balance is 'a habit of calm behaviour', so a loss of balance in the Force could mean upset, unrest and unstable conditions. So if Snoke's not been causing to much widespead upset, he probably hasn't been unbalancing the Force. His existence within itself would not be enough to justify an unbalanced condition.

 

What brought balance was the destruction of the beings who were actively oppressing the Galaxy.

It's not about destroying people who call themselves Sith. If you are of an evil mind but do not commit evil then you do not cause imbalance.

Snoke, whoever he is, during the galactic civil war was not actively doing anything that would impact on the balance of the force.

Only when he sets into motion his evil plans does he cause imbalance.

#PlagueisWokeUp

 

you can plot a bank robbery until you're blue in the face, but until you actually rob a bank, you haven't committed a crime. no?

 

I'm not so sure. I think you can be an evil person, with evil knowledge and evil intentions - but if you aren't doing evil then you aren't impacting on the Force.
If this wasn't the case, then the balance of the Force would've been consistently out of swing by a lot during the 1000yr Sith hiatus until they started the Clone Wars.
But that wasn't the case. The balance only really starts to slip during TPM and then the Force is "left in darkness" at the end of ROTS.
This to me indicates how the Sith cause imbalance but also that they don't cause imbalance by just being Sith. They do it by spreading evil.
I always think it vital to remember what the Force is, at least as much as we know - "An energy field created by all living things".
Essentially, the Force is the energy created by living things, which are themselves first impacted by what is going on in the galaxy.
So when there are Sith about, evil and despair spreads across the galaxy and thus "all life" is impacted. These lifeforms then create the Force through their energy (or at least add to it) and thus the energy they add to it is corrupted by the darkness that has been spread by the Sith.
So if there is a Dark Sider/former Sith etc living in exile, then he won't impact these people. If he isn't spreading evil, then he isn't doing anything to impact upon their lives. However, when he finally does decide to act then they will surely feel the impact of that.

The question is, why was Snoke not spreading evil between X and a few years prior to TFA?
For me, it has to be because he was physically unable. Weak. Vulnerable.
Otherwise, giving the likely time period he has been around for, we would've heard of him before. Dark Siders seek unlimited power. They don't just sit around.
And if he was an ancient being who turned evil recently, then questions must be raised about where he found this sudden Dark Side knowledge that he has in abundance.

I feel it more likely that he was a former Sith, who became damaged, exiled into the shadows and renounced his order and then reemerged when there was both a power vacuum and the Dark Side was weakened through the balance being restored (which in turn weakened him and stopped his recovery). This then presents a complex and interesting villain. A being with immense knowledge, wisdom and unrestrained by the tenants of the Sith order but at the same time weak and vulnerable.

"Lord Plagueis....riiiiiiiiiiise".

 

A Dark Sider, in contemplation mode, wouldn't impact upon the balance though as they wouldn't be doing anything that impacts on all the other beings in the galaxy who actually create the Force. Snoke of course, like all the other billions of lifeforms, adds to the energy of the Force himself but it's how he impacts upon others that actually causes imbalance.

Sidious didn't create an imbalance by existing. We know the imbalance truly started between TPM & ROTS. Well, Sidious has existed as a Sith for several decades before that. And the Sith had been around for a millennia behind the scenes without causing imbalance. Therefore, it must be stated as fact that simply having evil intentions - even learning and training yourself to become more evil - doesn't impact upon the balance of the Force until you actually begin to spread your evil beyond yourself and across the entire galaxy.

The thing with the Sith is that they 'were' extremely powerful beings. Anyone could push the Force out of balance if they spread evil across the galaxy. Even a non-FS being. Again - "The Force is an energy field created by all living things". Therefore, if these living things are under the rule of a person who deals in oppression, suffering and fear then the energy these beings create that forms the Force will in itself be of that nature - the Dark Side. When Lucas talked about the Sith being destroyed and balance being restored as a consequence, I don't think he is saying that it is about anyone calling themselves a Sith or whatever - it was about those specific Sith that existed at the time - Sidious and Vader. This is what the prophesy refers to. Only when those two specific Sith are destroyed (Sidious & Vader) is balance restored. That is because those two Sith were the ones actively oppressing the galaxy, leaving its inhabitants in perpetual fear and suffering. When Sidious dies, the Empire loses its grip. As I said, anyone could unbalance the Force but really the most likely is that a Dark Sider/Sith will do it - because only they have the superhuman power to do it. And only the Jedi have the superhuman power to stop them - hence why without the Jedi there can be no balance, as the Sith (or an order like it) will rise and seek control.

So for me Snoke is perfectly able to exist as an evil Dark Sider as the balance is restored. Evil will always exist so the prophesy doesn't refer to an eternal piece and the destruction of evil. It simply refers to the destruction of a specific group of Sith Lords who brought about a reign of evil over the galaxy.

 

I know I maybe gotta read the thread but im just going to say it. So am I right or not but there should be another person higher than Supreme Leader Snoke in the ST. I was just watching SW:CW and with Ventress being a 'Supreme Leader' and Count Dooku as her master there has to be another person Snoke refers to right? Kylo Ren is just another pond in the darkside who wants to be a 'darth'. could it be ezra? just putting ish out there. let me know whats up.


May the force be with you always...

 

I wouldn't call it "abandoning" ... It's more like a new power came in to being to challenge the balance which, in theory, would mean that Snoke wasn't always a dark side user but understood what side to be on in a smart way for his own good and he has sith tendencies but utilizes them to his own degree without actually teaching the ways of the Sith .

 

Has anyone ever listed each one of the lines of dialog about balance from the movies in chronological order?

Qui Gon, Kenobi, Yoda, and Lor San Tekka all had different things to say about balancing the force.

Everything that was said about it, sounds like in-universe rubbish.

 

How so, my Lord?

 

Without getting all long windy about it; and apart from one exchange, because the implied definition of "Balance of the Force in the GFFA" is stupid.

The only time I have not rolled my eyes about the subject is when TCW's two biggest eye-rolls talked openly about it.

Darth Maul - "The force feels.... out of balance."
Brother Savage - "Yes. There is conflict. The Clone Wars."
Darth Maul - "Ah, yes. So it began.... without me."

***
AFAIC, Sith-inspired war is what imbalances the force.
One Master, imposing their blackened will upon the galaxy is unnatural, being alive is not...

Unless we're talking bad gut bacteria, I don't see how wiping out, or destroying anything restores, or establishes balance. If killing Sith balanced the force, then Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie would all be sipping blue milk and tea together at Maz's for the duration of the Sequel Trilogy. And THAT isn't happening, so....

 

Indeed. For me it is clear that the Force is out of balance when evil reigns and spreads its darkness across the galaxy.
John from Alderaan doesn't give two hoots if there is some Dark Side wielder fishing on one of the Moons of Bogden.
However, put this evil doer in charge of the galaxy and give him a big red button to press that blows planets to smithereens and John from Alderaan, along with Ken from Naboo and Margaret from Sullustm, will soon give many a hoot.

 

Suppressing the galaxy is the best way to choke the life out of the living force.

The Lost Tribe of the Sith ran buck wild on one planet and no one cared for a thousand years.

THIS. And don't forget the Hutts. They drop BIG ho ho ho's when business gets interrupted.

 

A prophecy that misread could have been. ~Yoda

I think the key thing is to consider what balance means. Think of a balance scale such as this:



If you wipe one side empty, is the scale balance? No, one side falls. When is it balance? when both sides are level. They key is there has to be two sides of equal weight. Kinda like Yin and Yang. You can not have light without dark. If you didn't, you wouldn't have a reference point for what is good or bad. I don't think Snoke existing necessarily throws it out of balance. At least not in that moment. I agree with the fact that the Sith were so oppressive in their way that they was throwing the force out of balance. Anakin destroying the sith released this oppression and restored balance, but that still wouldn't mean everyone left is "good". You will still have bad people.

 

Yes but people with power like the Sith have/had means they have a far greater influence on GALACTIC AFFAIRS. The Emperor literally spread evil everywhere and this left the Force in darkness. Only Jedi have the power to truly destroy the Sith and thus allow the natural order of things to return. It's not about the destruction of all evil - just the destruction of those who spread evil everywhere and allow it to be greater than the amount of good in the galaxy.

It's explicitly shown to us how the imbalance grows slowly the more the Sith emerge and further their plans (Naboo Invasion - Clone War - Galactic Empire). The Sith existed before TPM of course but the Force wasn't out of balance then. It went out of balance when the Sith revealed themselves and began to take over.

In terms of the prophesy being misread, this is what Yoda proposed as things were going badly wrong for the Jedi and it didn't look like Anakin was going to be the saviour. And when the Sith took over and Anakin became Darth Vader, that really did look to be the case. But ultimately, the prophesy was fulfilled when Anakin destroyed the Sith.

The issue with Snoke is that he is a Dark Sider. And all Dark Siders want power. And the more power they have, they more they want. That is how the Dark Side works. So Snoke is clearly quite old. He's "been through some stuff". He is in touch with what is going on in the galaxy. He is very knowledgeable with the Dark Side and despite being vulnerable, is clearly powerful enough to take control of the First Order (and have Kylo as his apprentice). This tells us that he is a very powerful Dark Sider and so we have to question why we haven't heard of him prior to the events after Return of the Jedi.

If he was around before the Sith took over, then why didn't he make a power play then?
If he was around when the Sith were enacting their plans, why not try and take over then? After all, why allow the Sith to get absolute power and not be displaced for god knows how long?

The fact is with Snoke, is that in order for him not to impact the balance of the Force which was fulfilled by Anakin in ROTJ, then he must've at that point been inactive - not spreading evil. For if he, a powerful Dark Sider, had been actively spreading evil then the balance couldn't have been restored. Now this ties in for me with why he didn't make a power play sooner, why he is vulnerable and who he really is. The only thing that fits is if he is Plagueis.

Where was he prior? He was a Sith Lord and literally planning to take over.
What happened to him? Sidious "killed" him, but he survived and went into exile to recover.
What was he doing as the Sith took over and Sidious ruled as Emperor? He was vulnerable and weak. He was using the growing Dark Side to recover but was still incapable of defeating Sidious. He had to wait for his moment to take over the Empire himself.
Why emerge when Sidious died? His main enemy was out of his way. And the Dark Side was dramatically weakened by the surprising destruction of the Sith. This in turn weakened Snoke who was living off of the Dark Side. He had to emerge now to take over but he had to be careful as he was weak and Skywalker posed a huge threat to him.

That's Snoke's backstory fully explaining, no contradictions.