SPECULATION Snoke and the saber- Poe, Lor and Jakku. How they fit-

Good Evening,

This post is long, and rambling. I am tired and in a ham and turkey coma, but bear with me....

I have been trying to understand some things about Poe and Jakku, and what exactly takes place, and why, and I think I may have some things figured out- also, some stuff about the saber and Snoke/Kylo.

First, Poe either GETS something or GIVES something to Lor. If he gives something, that would infer that he, or someone high up in the Resistance knows and trusts Lor (perhaps he is an old Republic Officer in hiding, or a Jedi...an older General Madine?) enough to entrust him with something VERY important. This would also suggest that Poe would have had to have been unexpectedly discovered and pursued by the First Order, because why would you give such important items or information to someone else, when it's already in your possession, and you can simply fly to the resistance base which is I am sure, hidden, and hide it and study it there? This reeks of a sudden detour.

So I guess the first thing, is, does Poe GIVE Lor something? Again, this suggests he was being pursued through space by the First Order, and had to make an emergency stop to hide the goods with someone they trust.

If he GETS something, that would assume that it either has to be the SABER, or some sort of Starkiller data, (location, vulnerabilities). We know Finn has the saber by about midway through, and he most likely didn't get it from Rey, or she sure as hell would not be using a STAFF as her weapon. This means it was BB-8, because that's the only other companion he has, because we know Han and Chewie don't have it. So, back to my earlier point, if it's DATA/INFO or the SABER that Poe gets that drives the story, I am betting on it being the saber.

Now, if it is the saber, BB-8 has it, that means someone had to give it to BB-8, and who interacts with BB-8 prior? POE and LOR. So Poe or Lor has it. So does Poe give it to Lor, or the reverse? Poe would most likely not fly to Jakku to play antique roadshow with Lor to verify the SABER'S lineage/ownership for nostalgic reasons, so it stands to reason that LOR has it, and gives it to Poe, which makes more sense, because Jakku seems like a place where strange and exotic items might change hands through nefarious/underground channels.

Now, what are the odds of the First Order and Poe ending up on the same planet in the same village, serendipitously? Zero. Which means they would either have had to fly there in hyper space quickly, after some spy on Jakku outed Poe's presence to them, or they would have to be nearby already, which suggests a pursuit of Poe.

So, I think Poe is being pursued to Jakku, en route to GET something from LOR, and contrary to the recent reports, the saber could not have had any Starkiller plans hidden in it, because Luke lost it on Bespin, and didn't know about those events yet, as they were in the future.

UNLESS-

LUKE NEEDED his SABER back, because he left his GREEN one on the Death Star when he threw it away during his choice with Palpatine. If Luke is going to re-start the Jedi order, he sure as hell is going to need his saber, and he can't retrieve one that blew up, so he NEEDS to go back HIMSELF to Bespin, as only two people knew that saber fell, him and VADER. And Vader isn't telling anyone. This puts the saber back in Luke's hands, which allows the idea of him placing data in it at a later date-

On a side note, did Kylo ever have the saber? (rain flashback) If he did, this means Kylo got it and LOST IT, because how did it end up in Finn's hands then? So there is a problem there, as I doubt Kylo would take Luke's saber and lose it like a pair of car keys, which then suggests that he never had it to begin with of course! And the one he is holding in the rain, is someone else's, or not even a saber.

Moving on- (bear with me)

I guess what I am saying is, I do think the saber is the item that drives the story forward, the Mcguffin. But WHY do they want it? Plans inside? Something else?

Again, this is a bit rambling, and perhaps I am raising more questions that addressing... yet-

Why would they WANT the saber? What quality makes it so valuable? It needs to be tactical and functional, not just nostalgic.

What if, the saber crystal itself is an older, "extinct" type that is extremely powerful, the last known crystal of it's kind, and Snoke needs that crystal to complete Starkiller's full functionality?

OR- What if the CRYSTAL itself, is a conduit for the force! The force flows through it, and somehow, each time the force is utilized by a Jedi, the crystal "records" his actions and thoughts, to be retrieved later by those with the power to do so? (Maz, others...doing a forceback?)

So, WHO then had Luke's saber, and WHAT did they know that Snoke/Kylo would want-

THE ABILITY TO CHEAT DEATH.

"Master Obi-Wan, training I have for you on Tatooine..." training on how to transcend DEATH.

Who had that saber? Who gave it to Luke? Obi-Wan.

What if Obi-Wan's force training on transcending death, while the saber was on his person, was imprinted on the saber's crystal "memory?" And THAT is what Snoke wants. To cheat death, as he knows he is DYING. Perhaps he wants to become an all powerful non-corporeal, disembodied Dark Side spirit that is invulnerable, because he has no BODY to attack or destroy? Perhaps it is a race against time for him as his death is looming, so he sends his apprentice Kylo, to retrieve the saber, to retrieve the knowledge of how to cheat death.

This then suggests that the person who wants the saber would have to know that Obi-Wan had transcended death. Who knew about this? Luke and Yoda, and perhaps Sidious by way of Vader. This means however, Snoke is NOT Sidious's spirit because he is ALREADY physical, which means he already achieved transcendence and doesn't require the knowledge, and if he is conscious and disembodied (smoke/mist), he has already achieved the retention of consciousness after physical death, IE...Life after death, so again, he doesn't need knowledge he already has.

So in the end, after all this, what the hell am I saying?

* Snoke is not Sidious. He is indeed new.

* He somehow knows about the saber's value and history, and about Jedi transcending death.

* Luke Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Yoda know about this training, and only LUKE is still alive, to tell...which means Snoke may indeed have Luke prisoner, torturing him for information about it, keeping him alive, as long as the probing and torture take for Luke to break, or for him to unconsciously reveal the truth.

* I think Snoke himself NEEDS the weapon to survive. I think Kylo WANTS it because he worships Vader and it's a holy relic to him, which puts their motivations at odds with each other. Snoke wants to use it, Kylo wants to display on his mantle. Kylo probably plans on betraying Snoke for it at a later date, and Snoke is using Kylo because of his obsession with Vader to retrieve it, like using an enthusiastic kid to run an errand for you.

Thoughts?

 

I think because, Luke is either one of three things-

Alive and in seclusion.

Dead.

Alive and prisoner. Because those are the only real explanations for his absence from the marketing, and his absence from his friends he is so loyal toward. I have always thought his very APPEARANCE would be a spoiler, because if it wasn't they could have showed something brief of Luke in the trailers, and not have given anything away. I think if we saw a bedraggled Luke, looking worse for wear it would either suggest he is a crazy old hermit, or a prisoner, just by appearance alone, and would ruin important story points.

 

That would certainly explain his "damaged state." If he is that old, he would surely have been "through it" as Andy Serkis stated.