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Snoke is a fallen Angel

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Revanite, Mar 7, 2016.

?

What do you want for Snoke's identity?

  1. Darth Plagueis the Nerdy Pencil Pusher

    23.7%
  2. Literally anything else

    13.2%
  3. Doesn't matter as long as it is well written

    63.2%
  1. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    Theory on Snoke's species:

    image.jpeg image.jpg


    Discuss.......
     
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  2. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    It's so unsubtle, though, if Snoke is a fallen angel. I don't know, it just feels like... like my intelligence isn't being respected by the writers? I can see it happening, it's just that I deeply, deeply dislike the idea.
     
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  3. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    I understand. If it is the case, I would like it to be so subtly hinted that only us hard core fans would make the connection. Like if they just mention his planet once or something. I don't like blatant archetypes that much, but hey, this is Star Wars
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    It chimes with the character and concept of Snoke:

    7ft tall, once beautiful being that isn't exactly human and resides in the Unknown regions.

    Your theory is certainly compelling on those grounds.

    I don't like talk of fallen angels and I certainly don't like the convenient introduction of new villains into the Skywalker saga. But that isn't evidence that you're wrong - in fact, it's more usually the other way around!

    Will consider this more and come up with a decent response later rather than an instinctive post induced by the panic that Snoke may not be Plagueis...
     
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  5. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    I guess to be clear, I think it's perfectly reasonable, and believable, for Snoke's species to be angel, so long as that's as far as it goes. It even ties into the PT, for people who like those connections.
    If the next movies say something like, Snoke is from Iego, I would actually be really okay with that.
     
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  6. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    Have a beer and collect your thoughts
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2016 ---
    Would you like:

    Snoke: "I met Palptaine on Iego and saw in him a future where all light had been extinguished.....and I knew I must train him"

    So Snoke is Plagueis and a Diathim
     
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  7. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    I didn't want to hijack your thread, haha. But it crossed my mind. I want to think about it a bit longer, to see what emerges thematically, before I post my thoughts on combining them.
     
  8. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    No problem. I'm not a thread stickler so feel free to do whatever comes naturally.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2016 ---
    I'm off to bed. Midnight thirty here and have to head to the ship early in the morning
     
  9. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Instead of one Darth Plagueis the wise, we are pushed into a vacuum , resulting in a wonderland of ludicruous ideas.

    Fallen Angels. And a chief of SW canon department, once a Holly place for Star Wars fans, is debating this, meaning this could be actually considerred.

    Is there a way to save Star Wars?

    EDIT - March 10 .2016.Please note, that later in the course of this thread I changed this my opinion though..which can be followed
     
    #9 McDiarmid, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
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  10. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    No... I strongly dislike putting these theories together because they present a blatant Christian narrative. I'm Christian myself, but Star Wars is not the place for these stories, in this way. The fact that they seem made to fit together? I find it annoying.

    Here is what you get: Snoke, an angel of the moons of Iego, fell to the Dark Side, lost his wings, and was exiled. Snoke, which may as well be Snake, schemed to kill all the peacekeepers--the Jedi--by temping them into violence and apathy, killing them all, and ruling over the universe. Snoke even lost his angelic name, and for a time went by Darth Plagueis. But the spirit of the Force spoke through prophecy, and came upon Shmi, and she through virgin birth bore Anakin, the savior.

    Snake wished to become like a deity, creating life and living forever. He did not completely succeed, and became disfigured, no longer like an angel. And yet, Snake was as wise as a serpent, true to his name. Snake spent a whole lot of time doing nothing, convincing everyone he was dead or a legend--his greatest scheme. Anakin eventually, out of love, destroyed the Sith and restored balance to the Force--through his sacrificial death. He had been temped by the story of Snake, but ultimately fulfilled his role. Afterwards, because he knew the Chosen One's story could be distorted, Snake came back and persecuted the Church of the Force, the followers of the Light, and tempted a family member of the Chosen One into darkness by twisting the image of the savior.

    One of Snake's strongest enemies exiled himself to an island, trying to receive revelations to guide the future.
    Luke passed on the gospel he had learned to Rey. The ST is and will continue to be an adaptation of Acts. And Star Wars fans will hope for an end to the saga, but it won't happen in their lifetimes.

    You can see why I have problems with this. It fits very well, the angel and Plagueis bits complementing each other. But if they do this, it changes Star Wars into just an allegory, and that is much smaller than what it could be. Maybe some people will like it. I do not approve, despite the sense it makes. I would rather have just an angel, or just Plagueis, because together they are too much.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2016 ---
    By the way? The Saul=Kylo argument says that Anakin's ghost will come out of the sky and tell him to stop killing people, whereupon he will turn back to the light and change his name from Kylo Ren to Solo Ben, a la Saul to Paul. Disney, I trusted you! We all knew Vader was a Jewish craftsman, partly Chosen One and partly machine, but what are you doing?!? Ugh, it's over, guys. We broke the code.

    It is "better" than Plagues in that it encompasses the whole, not just part.
     
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  11. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    And yet it's curious, because either through what would be a huge coincidence or a divine plan, all this is set up in first TPM and then ROTS.
    Anakin tells Padme that he came to Tatooine when he was 3 and that he had heard of deep space pilots talk about Angels from Iego.
    Now, if you take that along with the story of Plagueis and how he potentially created Anakin then right there, in the PT, you can say the story you describe above was formed.

    Snoke was once an angel from Iego who fell to the Dark Side and was banished. He joined the Sith and became Darth Plagueis - bringing with him God-like powers the Sith have never seen of before. During his time he had the very angelic power of saving others from death (guardian angel) but sought to save himself due to his selfish nature. He also created Anakin Skywalker and then, to hide him from Sidious, took him to Tatooine and sold him into slavery until the time was right to take him as an apprentice. Anakin hearing about the angels could have something to do with these origins - recounting stories he heard as a toddler whilst in the company of Snoke/Plagueis? I did and still do take that comment from Anakin as being something he overheard crazy space pirates talk about on Tatooine - but it could be repurposed.

    Curious.
     
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  12. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    Well done, @Revanite. You've discovered the truth and ruined everything. (dad)
    @master_shaitan, you are also onto something; Anakin probably did hear about the angels because Snoke was keeping an eye on him. But I'll maintain that the Force made him in response to Snoke's evil.

    And now I'm obligated to watch TPM again, aren't I? How dare you. (But being serious, this is the most interesting the Snoke discussion has been for months.)
     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'm just trying to work out if I am forcing Plagueis into this theory or if he does actually fit. The "he could save others from death" thing always bothered me on some level. Yes I get the desire to for a Sith to save others - as they don't want to let go of the things they love. However, could they actually have such a knowledge? Such compassion to prevent suffering when they usually cause it? If Plagueis was once an angel, and angels are largely guardians, then this idea fits.
     
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  14. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    And also, because Lucifer wanted to be like a god, creating life and living eternally. Only afraid to lose power, imposing his will over the natural order. There's very little forcing to be done.

    Also, let's not forget "You will not surely die."
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2016 ---
    ^^^Which implies, now that I think over it, that the person Plagueis saved from death was some sort of Eve figure. So there's another mystery part-solved.
     
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  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Are you talking about a literal fallen angel? What if they're from one of the moons of Iago ? :confused:
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2016 ---
    Are you talking about a literal fallen angel? What if they're from one of the moons of Iago ? :confused:
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016 ---
    Snoke is a literal angel? What if he's from one of the moons of Iago, I think ? :confused:
     
  16. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    We also know why Snoke was almost a woman now, because angels are said to be neither male nor female. (And why early on he was a snake guy, because Snake.)
     
    #16 Yordis, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  17. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    A "fallen angel" Snoke sets up many possibilities, including correlations with the stories of Prometheus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus) and, of course, Satan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan) or Lucifer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer).

    As much as I lean towards the Plagueis theory, I maintain an open mind on this matter.

    In fact, I've discussed aspects of this at length. Here is an excerpt from my larger post on Prometheus / Pandora (and also the literary classic Frankenstein):
    I also, more generally, spoke of a "snake in the garden," invoking an obvious Eden reference, in another post regarding the state of the Force across the saga. Here is an excerpt from that:

    So, for me, there's something to this "fallen angel" concept.

    Anakin Skywalker correlates easily with the generalized account of "one who fell" from "paradise."

    Further back in Star Wars history there was talk of a Rogue Jedi:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_rogue_Jedi

    It was he and his followers, who after the Hundred-Year Darkness
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness


    had lead to the creation of the Sith
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

    So the "seed" ideas (along with Anakin's "Are you an angel?" dialogue in The Phantom Menace) are already there, as are other strong correlations to be made.

    Now, if the storytellers really do want to take this in the "angels" direction, they are bringing a major new challenge upon themselves, one I'd hope they really feel up to, because, up to now, the universal appeal of Star Wars has been its general ability to transcend denominations and speak to all cultures.

    Star Wars has always had strong Christian correlations and interpretations, but many of these correlations can also be found in other religions, world mythologies, and legends. Lucas sometimes referenced himself as "Buddhist Methodist," and I know he knew the importance of the larger scope.

    So, if the present storytellers are really doing this, I hope they find a way to do so which can preserve the universal appeal which I believe has been integral to the accessibility and appeal of the saga.


    JediMasterRobert
     
    #17 JediMasterRobert, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    One is reminded of The Angel of Death, a destroying angel commonly described as the deliverer of the tenth plague in the Book of Exodus...
     
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  19. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    mysticism, angels, no more Star Wars I knew.
     
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  20. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2016 ---
    Why they didn't go with the second kid, I will never know...

    Bloody yes-men (and women).
     
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