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Snoke is a fallen Angel

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Revanite, Mar 7, 2016.

?

What do you want for Snoke's identity?

  1. Darth Plagueis the Nerdy Pencil Pusher

    9 vote(s)
    23.7%

  2. Literally anything else

    5 vote(s)
    13.2%

  3. Doesn't matter as long as it is well written

    24 vote(s)
    63.2%
Page 5 of 5
  1. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    An interesting point about Yoda is that with his arc in the final season in clone wars and some stuff in rebels, it is strongly implied and almost outright stated that Yoda knew the Jedi were going to fall and be nearly destroyed. But he knew it had to happen in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled and true balance achieved. Yoda was willing to make an insane sacrifice in order for the good of the Force. I think Yoda may have understood the prophecy better than most
     
    #81 Revanite, Mar 9, 2016
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    What did Yoda say?
    My thoughts are that he knew that the Jedi were doomed but not that this needed to happen. It's also pretty explicit in the original trilogy that Yoda didn't think Anakin would return. He wanted Luke to destroy Vader and The Emperor so I don't buy the idea of him thinking the prophesy could be fulfilled. Up until balance was restored, Yoda thought the prophesy was wrong.
     
    #82 master_shaitan, Mar 9, 2016
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  3. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    I mean to say that he might have understood that Anakin was not the only hope for the prophesy, which would reinforce the idea that if the prophesy is cyclical, the force will find a way to fulfill it. From the final episode of clone wars, "sacrifice" we get this:

    "His final trial complete, Yoda awakens from his nightmarish vision, and the Force Priestesses state that he will train with Qui-Gon Jinn and learn to retain his identity in the future. Yoda begins to see the future and hears what will someday be his last words, that "There is Another Skywalker". Back on Coruscant, Darth Sidious and Count Dooku realize they have failed to break Yoda learning that they need more time.

    Yoda returns to Coruscant, where he finds Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi waiting for him. They state that the Jedi Council is looking forward to hearing what happened to Yoda during his journey, but the elderly Jedi Master says there is very little to report. Not willing to share his experiences, Yoda expresses his newfound belief that perhaps there is a better way to achieve victory than the Clone Wars. Yoda then claims that act of the Jedi fighting the Clone Wars has probably already caused the war to be lost, but that there is a path unknown to the Sith that could lead to a long-term victory for the Jedi Order."
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 9, 2016 ---
    He was unwilling to share what he saw, which may or may not have been able to save the Jedi. But he realized that since the Jedi had entered the war, it changed them. They no longer were the true peacekeepers they were meant to be. They chose to pick up their light sabers and fight. Only when Luke chose to throw his saber away, did the legacy of the Jedi truly return and set things right
     
    #83 Revanite, Mar 9, 2016
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Ah, ok - got ya. Thanks for that.
    Yes - it makes it look like Yoda reinterprets the prophesy to be about this other Skywalker.
    Interesting how he comes to this though but then continues fighting and goes one on one vs Sidious.
    That's my issue with the CW and Rebels - too much stuff happens that you know is really just there to make the cartoons interesting rather than it something that actually happened...if you know what I mean?! (Like Anakin having an apprentice or fighting Dooku a second time before they meet in ROTS).
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 9, 2016 ---
    But it's like he says in the latest Rebels episode: It's about why you fight - or something to that effect.
    A Jedi has a saber for a reason and must fight at times. Anakin had to actually kill Sidious after all.
    But I think Yoda is being specific about the Clone Wars. He knows they were duped into a battle they shouldn't have ever fought.
    But to be fair to the Jedi - it's easy to say that in hindsight. At the time the Sith seemed to be just behind the Separatists and so if the Jedi didn't fight, they may be letting the Sith win.

    However, had the Jedi been more in tune with the living Force, like Qui Gon, then they might've seen this trap. Their reliance on the cosmic force, which became clouded by the Sith, was ultimately their undoing.
     
    #84 master_shaitan, Mar 9, 2016
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  5. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    Actually, as I recall the Rebels latest episode had Yoda saying outright that a Jedi should not turn to violence, even to save their friends. Which I think is correct--a Jedi must protect, and any aggression is tacitly the dark side. The hero rejected this reasoning, obviously.
     
    #85 Yordis, Mar 10, 2016
  6. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Yet in the OT Ben and Yoda tell Luke to go and fight Vader and Sidious...

    "I can't kill my own father"
    "Then the Emperor has already won"

    And as I say, Anakin turns aggressor and kills Sidious. I think there are times one must fight but it must be for the right reasons - and that is decided by being calm, listening to the Force and not using anger or hatred.
     
    #86 master_shaitan, Mar 10, 2016
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