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SPECULATION Snoke is ancient Sith awoken when Luke trained Ben Solo

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Xeven, Oct 18, 2017.

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  1. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    When Ben went Dark, the force awoke Rey. Luke has figured this out and is why he went to hide.
    The Force trying to balance itself. Luke was the Balance (brought forth by Anakin) and he broke the balance by training new Jedi, namely Ben Solo. Luke is on that Island to stay in the light since he cold go either way, but Rey can probably change that.

    Training Rey wont breake balance because the force created her for that purpose but anyone beyond that or loss of either Snoke or Kylo will break the balance again.

    Just one last Snoke theory! Probably he is not Plaguies (sad face) but that leaves DP out there for the future =).

    Makes some sense I think?
     
    #1 Xeven, Oct 18, 2017
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  2. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Anakin killed the last of the Sith per the prophecy.

    These new evil guys are darksiders but not particularly Sith.

    There is no Darth Snoke or Darth Kylo.


    It's Supreme Leader Snoke and Kylo Ren.


    Maz Kanata: "Through the ages......I've seen evil take many forms. The Sith. The Empire. Today it is the First Order."

    Sith are in past tense.
     
    #2 LarsSkywalker, Oct 18, 2017
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  3. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

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    Luke trained Ben, it created dark Jake Lloyd
    [​IMG]
     
    #3 MarsPhoenix, Oct 18, 2017
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  4. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    lol
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2017 ---
    That Dude woulda been a great Ben Solo lol.
     
    #4 Xeven, Oct 18, 2017
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Exactly...there can be others that emulate sith, but Anakin killed the last of the real sith with proper sith knowledge.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2017 ---
    He definitely could have, but unfortunately we'll never know.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017 ---
    .
     
    #5 AstromechRecords, Oct 18, 2017
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  6. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel Official

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    I originally thought Snoke was going to be the first ever Dark Side user who was so powerful the first Jedi could only trap, and that why Luke went looking for the first Jedi Temple to find out how they did it.

    Now however the revelations over the past few years that JJ Abrams hadn't really worked out a story passed the force awakens or answer to any of the key questions raised in that film(who is Snoke, who are Reys parents, why is luke on the Island, who are the knights or Ren, why did R2D2 just randomly wake up.....)

    Add to that the quotes from Rian Johnson that he is treating Snoke like the emperor in the original trilogy, as just a menacing presence who you don't need to no the backstory off.

    So im now convinced at this stage their isn't really a firm idea of who Snoke is or where he came from, he's just their to be evil and pose a threat to the hero's.
     
    #6 Mosley909, Oct 18, 2017
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  7. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    i don't think Luke could have 'awoken' Snoke during Ben's training... Snoke 'Witnessed the rise and fall of the Galactic Empire from afar' (novelization), so i'm guessing that whoever or whatever he is.. he has been around and watching for some time.

    we can debate the sith or not sith till the cows come home. yes Anakin defeated the sith and fulfilled the prophecy.. a prophecy that misread, could have been.

    i'll be honest.. it looks to me as though the story and matters of the force are being elevated above Sith and Jedi, so i'm not sure it matters whether the Snokester has a darth title or not.
     
    #7 Maximus, Oct 18, 2017
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  8. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    If true, RJ had made a massive mistake.
    We didn't need the Emperor's backstory because we hadn't seen the events that took place before the OT. Not so with the ST - we have been aware of events in the GFFA for the past 60-70 years and there has been no sign of this "powerful dark side master who has observed the rise of the Enpire".

    There needs to be a very good explanation of who Snoke is and where he came from. The options for me are as follows:

    1. He's an old being that wasn't Sith but was captured/injured a long time ago.

    2. He was a good person who only recently (post rotj) was corrupted by the Dark Side.

    3. He's Darth Frickin Plagueis.

    Each of these options also share one fact: the restoration of balance and his injuries are the reason he has emerged in the galactic arena now. His injuries either explain why he turned bad or indeed why he had to reveal himself (diminished dark side weakened him as he was living off of it).
     
    #8 master_shaitan, Oct 18, 2017
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  9. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    He is a dark side bodysnatcher obviously;)
     
    #9 JarJar, Oct 18, 2017
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  10. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    He was created by J.J. Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan. They're the ancient sith. Always two there are. Master and apprentice.
     
    #10 Bluemilk, Oct 18, 2017
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  11. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    By awoke I mean he was in a Slumber due to his massive injuries. Luke train Kylo and the Force awoke a dark sider (Snoke) to bring balance. During Snoke's healing Slumber he would have used the force to monitor the goings on in the Galaxy but in limited capacity. The Will of the force caused something to release this ancient Sith or Dark sider.
     
    #11 Xeven, Oct 18, 2017
  12. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    "He taught his apprentice everything he knew and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep...".

    "The Force Awakens".

    I rest my case.
     
    #12 master_shaitan, Oct 18, 2017
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  13. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Strange that the Star Wars.com data bank states that Kylo was trained in BOTH the ways of Jedi AND SITH.

    If Snoke is just “some darksider”, why train an apprentice in the ways of the Sith? Sounds like Snoke WAS ONCE a Sith to me....
     
    #13 ITG, Oct 18, 2017
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  14. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    dang... never noticed that before

     
    #14 Maximus, Oct 18, 2017
  15. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Indeed. It could be argued that the wording on the Databank isn't fully canon however, it is telling nevertheless.
    Ben was trained by Luke and then by Snoke. And for one don't see any difference in how Snoke is training Kylo to how Sidious trained Anakin.
    And whether it is unsubstantiated or not I have always felt that this won't be a Darthless trilogy...

    It's only a matter of time before Snoke reveals his true self that we have only forgotten...gimme a P! Gimme an L! Gimme an A! (and so on and so forth).
     
    #15 master_shaitan, Oct 18, 2017
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  16. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    I do not have the Prophecy in front of me but Anakin was to bring Balance to the Force. The Jedi created the part that killing the Sith was the way to balance the force and I believe the Jedi were wrong. Anakin brought balance to the force by fathering a child that was equal parts light and dark. Luke displayed tendencies of both in the films. Luke destroyed the two active Dark Siders who were Sith. This brought the balance along with Luke being equal parts light and dark and the only active force user.

    Having been misdled by the Jedi who were wrong but not corrupt, Luke attempted to create more Jedi. This action broke the balance his own single force user presence had brought.

    Snoke existed but was not channeling the force other than some small amount to remain alive possibly in some form of stasis or trap for possibly thousands of years so he was not breaking the balance.

    Luke create light side Kylo that then tilted the force to the light (unbalance) the Force caused something to release a Dark Sider (Snoke) through the "Will" of the force. Maybe when Chewee let all those ancient powerful prisoners free that were in stasis on that ancient ship? Snoke would have been alive but unable to channel the dark side but not exactly blind to the force and seeing through it what was going on in the galaxy through meditation.

    Snoke awoke (was released?)and we had balance again but he went to work to turn Kylo, possibly had been subtly there turning Kylo even before Kylo birth using the force. When Kylo went Dark, the force was again out of balance and Rey awoke to again bring balance.

    The force is not controlled by beings it has its own Will from a certain point of view and that is to stay in balance. The Force will cause things to happen in reality to attempt to bring itself back to balance, most likely a natural thing not an intelligent thing.

    Luke realized this "balance" and asked his lady that birthed their baby "Rey" or what ever they named her to hide her from him so his presence would not endanger her or the balance. She attempted to do so but Rey became Kidnaped (possibly by the force manipulating things in the universe to bring her to Jakku). Luke then tried to hold on to Kylo but failed and lost him to the dark.

    At this point the Force awoke Rey on Jakku to again attempt to balance itself.

    If you could kill off everyone but Luke then the Force would be in balance again but probably to late for that.

    Now Luke knows much more but is more or less stuck with the mistakes made and must train Rey. I do not think however that Luke will remain in the Light. I believe Luke has become so much more. He is and uses equal parts Light and Dark, now.
     
    #16 Xeven, Oct 18, 2017
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  17. Lazarus Dei

    Lazarus Dei Tree Dodger Extraordinaire
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    I still find it kinda sad that the post-TPM backlash and hate on Lloyd drove him into a very different place. He must have been hyped as a kid to find out he was going to be young Anakin, yet it pretty much destroyed him. A victim of circumstance.
     
    #17 Lazarus Dei, Oct 18, 2017
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  18. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    #teamplagueis lead with that shiiiit!
     
    #18 ITG, Oct 18, 2017
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  19. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    http://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren I don't read that there, and let's nt forget that the Star Wars.com team is not really close to the storygroup.

    Doesn't fit the timeline.

    Ancient Sith doesn't work here since it is a rehash of the old Exar Kun arc. The problem is that George reset the timeline of the creation of the Sith. They emerged much later then the EU wanted it.
     
    #19 Rieekan, Oct 18, 2017
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  20. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    it is there.. scroll down a bit to the history section

    you are right though, there have been 'discrepancies' in the databank before.
     
    #20 Maximus, Oct 18, 2017
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